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Old 12-11-2016, 02:21 PM   #1
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CITES update


I'm not sure if this has already been posted but I found this article on CITES new regulations. I wanted to post this in case someone here was thinking of selling outside the U.S. I'm selling a historic and I have a very interested buyer in China but after reading this I don't think I want to attempt the shipment now! long story short, CITES is regulating nearly all species of rosewood now.

https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-re...sewood-species
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:55 PM   #2
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Re: CITES update

Wow ...Great Read...

I guess I'm keeping all of my lesters...and NOT dealing over seas....(even for hobbyist trade) which is all I do anyway

AND

Another reason for Gibson to increase their prices....Oh wait did they just anticipate this???
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:20 PM   #3
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Re: CITES update

So only baked maple will be safe for export.
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:26 PM   #4
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Re: CITES update

At least there's an exemption for instruments carried for personal use while traveling. This won't affect me any.
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:34 PM   #5
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Re: CITES update

Finally
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:36 PM   #6
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Re: CITES update

I'm glad I bought my instruments years ago.


This means prices for used guitars with striking rosewood will only go up. YAY!
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:14 PM   #7
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Re: CITES update

WIth regard to this:
"...It does not apply to instruments shipped within the borders of your country or instruments carried for personal use while traveling internationally ..."

The normal, safe, thing to do is to apply for a 'carnet' (usually of one year's duration) for each instrument you intend to carry across international borders. That is your proof of ownership prior to travel, and is allowable under CITES.
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:04 PM   #8
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
CITES is regulating nearly all species of rosewood now
Not really. It's only an Appendix II listing, which covers raw lumber exports from designated countries. Honduras mahogany has already been on it for some years. Doesn't apply to finished goods as does the Death List, Appendix I, with such things as BRW and ivory.

At any rate, Americans and visitors to America need to be less worried about CITES than about the Lacey Act.
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:21 PM   #9
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Re: CITES update

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At least there's an exemption for instruments carried for personal use while traveling. This won't affect me any.
Careful! you need to check with each country's requirements. There is a link in the article. I checked for China and they do not accept personal use certificates (whatever this means but it does not sound good!).
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:04 PM   #10
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Re: CITES update

Taylor currently offers a 700 series acoustic marketed as Brazilian rosewood back and side wood? How they doing that? Now mind you it doesn't say "solid" anywhere, so maybe they are importing laminated sheets from the source country?
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:23 PM   #11
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Re: CITES update

Taylor, Prs and Martin still use Brazilian rosewood and Ebony that they get from sustainable sources that im sure they pay out the butt for and Gibson chooses not to do this. These woods can still be used but the hoops require to aquire them are costly.
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:23 PM   #12
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Re: CITES update

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Originally Posted by Pappy58 View Post
Taylor currently offers a 700 series acoustic marketed as Brazilian rosewood back and side wood? How they doing that? Now mind you it doesn't say "solid" anywhere, so maybe they are importing laminated sheets from the source country?

Nope no laminated sheets. They're using Brazilian rosewood that was imported into the US in 1991 or earlier. Brazilian was put on the cities list in 1991 I believe.
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:09 AM   #13
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Re: CITES update

CITES sucks.........
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:10 AM   #14
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Re: CITES update

I guess I'm gonna need a Brazilian Rosewood Acoustic soon...the prices will probably go up soon....
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Old 12-12-2016, 03:32 AM   #15
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sct13 View Post
I guess I'm gonna need a Brazilian Rosewood Acoustic soon...the prices will probably go up soon....
Great! now instrument with RW will increase in price simply because companies need to hire extra workers to fill up the CITES documents which does nothing to making a better instrument. Great way to increase productivity...
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:44 AM   #16
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Re: CITES update

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I guess I'm gonna need a Brazilian Rosewood Acoustic soon...the prices will probably go up soon....
On the contrary, the resale market for that guitar just diminished by 80% given it can only be purchased IN-country. Less buyers, less money.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:50 AM   #17
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Re: CITES update

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Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
On the contrary, the resale market for that guitar just diminished by 80% given it can only be purchased IN-country. Less buyers, less money.
Not certain about other countries, however, majority of the guitars in the US resale market still floats within the country.
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Old 12-12-2016, 08:45 AM   #18
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Re: CITES update

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CITES sucks.........

I agree. They should allow the harvesting of three large Brazilian rosewood trees a year to be sold to guitar manufacturers to build some awesome acoustics. This would have almost no effect on the forests in Brazil.

I would think that three large trees would produce about 1,000 guitars with the smaller branches producing a large number of fingerboards, bridges and headplates.

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Old 12-12-2016, 03:32 PM   #19
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Re: CITES update

[QUOTE=At any rate, Americans and visitors to America need to be less worried about CITES than about the Lacey Act.[/QUOTE]

You are correct. I looked into this and there are forms you need to fill out in order to verify the species, whether or not the item was made before May, 22, 2008, as well as a bunch of other information! It is impossible to get this info from Gibson anymore right? For example, I have no idea what species my 2008 explorer 50th anniv reissue has for the fretboard.

What a f#%^ing mess😰!
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Old 12-12-2016, 03:39 PM   #20
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
You are correct. I looked into this and there are forms you need to fill out in order to verify the species, whether or not the item was made before May, 22, 2008, as well as a bunch of other information! It is impossible to get this info from Gibson anymore right? For example, I have no idea what species my 2008 explorer 50th anniv reissue has for the fretboard.

What a f#%^ing mess😰!
2008 50th Anniversary Explorer Board = MGRW.

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Old 12-12-2016, 03:42 PM   #21
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg's Guitars View Post
CITES sucks.........
............without Cites stupid Humans would still be buying stuff like Ivory, Gorilla Hands, Rhino Horn & chopping down Trees like there was no tomorrow etc. etc. etc.

Sure it is a PIA but you can handle any of this legally with the right paperwork.

My 2c FWIW.

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Old 12-13-2016, 02:07 AM   #22
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Re: CITES update

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Originally Posted by RAG7890 View Post
............without Cites stupid Humans would still be buying stuff like Ivory, Gorilla Hands, Rhino Horn & chopping down Trees like there was no tomorrow etc. etc. etc.

Sure it is a PIA but you can handle any of this legally with the right paperwork.

My 2c FWIW.

What CITES did is giving those "stuff" a halo. Humans are still buying them but with a premium. And humans wants them even more, now with the halo attached.

humans' obsession or "sickness"; the more you can't have it, the more you want it. And it has little to nothing to do with medical or tonal improvements.
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Old 12-13-2016, 06:12 AM   #23
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Re: CITES update

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What CITES did is giving those "stuff" a halo. Humans are still buying them but with a premium. And humans wants them even more, now with the halo attached.

humans' obsession or "sickness"; the more you can't have it, the more you want it. And it has little to nothing to do with medical or tonal improvements.
While I don't necessarily disagree with the above if it were not for the regulations we probably wouldn't have any Elephants left or much of anything for that matter.

Sure, we don't live in a perfect World but the World is definitely a better place with stricter controls, even if some of them are silly.

My 2c FWIW.

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Old 12-13-2016, 07:55 AM   #24
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
You are correct. I looked into this and there are forms you need to fill out in order to verify the species, whether or not the item was made before May, 22, 2008, as well as a bunch of other information! It is impossible to get this info from Gibson anymore right? For example, I have no idea what species my 2008 explorer 50th anniv reissue has for the fretboard.

What a f#%^ing mess😰!
Post a pic of the board and lets find out.
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Old 12-13-2016, 10:49 AM   #25
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Re: CITES update

So musical intruments will suffer because China likes to use endangered woods for furniture? Like that will stop a country that scoffs at any international laws.
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:02 PM   #26
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Re: CITES update

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So musical intruments will suffer because China likes to use endangered woods for furniture? Like that will stop a country that scoffs at any international laws.

I wouldn't be surprised if China was still buying Brazilian rosewood.
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:11 PM   #27
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Re: CITES update

Sounds like a good regulation that hurts companies for Trump to get rid of!
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:41 PM   #28
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Re: CITES update

But will they or more precisely can they enforce it?
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:37 PM   #29
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAG7890 View Post
............without Cites stupid Humans would still be buying stuff like Ivory, Gorilla Hands, Rhino Horn & chopping down Trees like there was no tomorrow etc. etc. etc.

Sure it is a PIA but you can handle any of this legally with the right paperwork.

My 2c FWIW.

Well said, Rudi. Just gotta do a little paperwork and pay a fine. Is this an unusual thing in any of our lives?
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:38 PM   #30
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Re: CITES update

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAG7890 View Post
............without Cites stupid Humans would still be buying stuff like Ivory, Gorilla Hands, Rhino Horn & chopping down Trees like there was no tomorrow etc. etc. etc.

Sure it is a PIA but you can handle any of this legally with the right paperwork.

My 2c FWIW.

I totally agree, the rainforests and animals are much more important than a bunch of ****ing guitar fretboards imo ...
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