Newbie-next step?

[LPCollector]

The last time I did any recording we were using analog equipment onto a 1" tape.

I'm doing a little home recording using my iPad-Garageband-Bose Companion 5 computer speakers and I also have a JBL speaker system attatched to my desktop. So, no real monitors.
My whole digital recording career is 11 days old and my first "solo" without collaberation.

Garageband seems limited in it's final mixing capabilities...but that might just be user error as I have only had it, as I said before, for 11 days. (any input would be gratefully accepted)

My Hughes & Kettner has the direct out (XLR) and I borrowed and interface (M-Audio?) to record the guitar parts on these, partial, tunes.

So, my question for you guy's is, after you have a listen to these tunes and you get a feel for my playing abilities, what would you suggest as my next step in audio recording equipment and software?

Since I have hung with real professional musicians with RIAA certifications for most of my life, I feel that my abilities are mediocre, even at my best.
Top of the line stuff is WAY overkill, IMO.
So, let's say my budget is $500-$1000 or so.

Please have a listen, then give me ALL of your suggestions whether its recording technique, playing, or equipment suggestions.
You know how friends and family are.....always trying to be too kind.
I know I can count on you guy's to be alot more like Simon Cowell.

Thank you in advance!

MarkDarby33's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

[bscenefilms]

Are you running OS X or Windows? Listened to the first tune there. The main guitar that played overpowers everything else. Cannot hear drums/bass hardly at all when that one guitar is playing.

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by bscenefilms

Are you running OS X or Windows? Listened to the first tune there. The main guitar that played overpowers everything else. Cannot hear drums/bass hardly at all when that one guitar is playing.

I'm running Garageband so it must be OS?


See what I mean, I need help!

[LPCollector]

OK, you were right Bscene.....now listen to it and see if it sounds better.
I was doing a recording "no-no" of balancing levels on two different speaker systems....my bad!
Thank you for the input!

[Red2112]

Hi LPC!

Lets see if I can help... First, welcome to the never ending world of home recording! You will see why in the future....

Ok, I Imagen (Garageband) your on Mac and OX, so we focus on that.

Unless you wanna read alot, which you will end up doing. I suggest you get a book that explains the in´s and out´s of the digital recording world... sample rate, gain stages, MIDI, mic techniques, mixing and mastering and basic AD/DA understanding.

Here are some I went through and helped alot....

-"Recording and Producing in the Home Studio, A complete guide" by David Franz. Berklee Press ISBN 0-87639-048-3

This book will be alot of help, it dose cover aspects of production you might not need to know, but the rest is very usefully.

-"Mixing & Mastering" by Bill Gibson. Hal-Leonard ISBN-10: 1-4234-3053-0.

Here you well learn what effect you get with different effects and why, mono, stereo, wet and dry, why your bass is eating all the bass frequencies, what to do and alot more stuff.

And if you want to get real heavy about it, just read Mastering by Bob Katz!!! To in-depth for my taste...

Also, I would hang-out over at Gearslutz.com. Great site with alot of pro´s... get ready to read and the GAS of home studio!

For the gear....


Soundcard:
Assuming your on Mac, I would Invest on a good sound card like a Apogee Duet!!! I don't think you need more then two pre´s and the AD/DA conversion of the Duet is very good! You could also look into Echo Audio, its what I have (Audiofire 8a) and works sweet and has the same converters as the Duet.

I only suggested two cards, because the main problem with DAW´s (Digital Audio Workstation) is STABILITY and LATENCY!!! I know these two sounds cards will not give you any issues regarding stability and latency.

Monitors:
Do you need them? On one hand, if you plan to spend alot of hours mixing or what ever, its alot better then using cans! But, if your room is not conditioned for acoustics, then your not gonna get the real picture from your monitors. Anyhow I wouldn't live without them. I use Yamaha MSP5´s active monitors, true to source and flat! If it doesn't sound good on these... dump the mix...

You can mix with open dome cans, but believe me use your monitors! Check your mixes on both cans and monitors, mono and stereo!

Software:
Cant help you much here as aim on windows XP. I use Sonar 6PE as my main DAW. I also use Reaper on some occasions. I also use EZDrummer as my drum pluggin... real nice and there´s a Mac version.

You will need to understand Mac extension pluggins because they are not VST´s or VSTi´s like windows.

There are many free pluggins in the web for Mac, just give them a try.

You may also need a MIDI keyboard and/or surface controller to input bass lines or synths via MIDI. Plenty of keyboards in the market, I suggest Akai... or M-Audio Axiom II.

and last, mic´s if you wanna explore singing or micing!

Hope it helps... shoot if you have any questions!

Care,

Mike

[LPCollector]

Thank you very much, Mike!!!!!!!!

[Joeydego]

Mike gave you a lot of good info except osx uses vst just like windows. It's the DAW that determines the file extension used, not the OS. M audio interfaces play really well with osx, I use a profire 2626. The 610 is an excellent choice for a mac. Garage band is quite limited. I personally like pro tools but any full featured daw will get you up and running. Get a method book for whatever you choose and prepare for a learning curve.

[bscenefilms]

OK, you are on a Mac ( you said Garage Band on an iPad so that did not preclude the possibility that your workstation is Windows).

For the Mac you have a number of choices for DAW software. Avid Protools, Apple Logic Studio, Audacity. There are probably others out there but those are the dominant standards.

I use both Protools and Logic. Logic provides more bang for the buck than Protools. They are both excellent products. Logic, with all of it's bundled apps and instruments, gives you a lot of extras that you will pay extra for in ProTools.

That being said, ProTools is the industry standard. So, if interoperability between other ProTools systems is a big consideration for you, you may wish to consider that. The virtual instruments bundled in Logic are pretty decent. Here is a recording that I did with it so you can hear the virtual instruments. The only live instruments in this are the rhythm guitar and the melody guitar:

http://www.b-scenefilms.com/Butterline.mp3

Clearly, a lot of it has a bit of a MIDI-ish sound to them but on the whole they are decent.

If you get one of these recording applications, holler back here and we can talk about mapping MIDI events to tracks and instruments in whatever software you end up using.

[bscenefilms]

Originally Posted by LPCollector

OK, you were right Bscene.....now listen to it and see if it sounds better.
I was doing a recording "no-no" of balancing levels on two different speaker systems....my bad!
Thank you for the input!

What an improvement. Very nice!

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

Mike gave you a lot of good info except osx uses vst just like windows. It's the DAW that determines the file extension used, not the OS. M audio interfaces play really well with osx, I use a profire 2626. The 610 is an excellent choice for a mac. Garage band is quite limited. I personally like pro tools but any full featured daw will get you up and running. Get a method book for whatever you choose and prepare for a learning curve.

Which version of Pro Tools do you suggest, Joey/BSCENE?
I also, only have an iPhone and iPad as anything MAC related....I have a PC, so is Pro Tools compatble enough for use with that?(I only ask because I see alot of "my Pro Tools won't do this or that" issues being asked)
...or would Logic be another/better option?

[bscenefilms]

Logic is Mac only. For Windows you can go proTools or CuBase for the main DAW apps out there. None of them will be perfect - Any application of this complexity has issues - You learn to work around them. These are very deep applications that represent a decent learning curve and as such an investment in your time to learn one or the other.

If you are looking at ProTools or Cubase, you have a lot of options:

Avid | Compare Pro Tools Software and Systems
Versions*:**|*http://www.steinberg.net/

Study the feature sets - Look at what your goals are with this and what your budget is and decide accordingly.

Audacity is available for Windows systems but I have had both stability and performance issues with it and it does not support MIDI - It IS free tho... Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder

More open source stuff here: http://notesfromtheshack.wordpress.c...-daw-round-up/

Hope that gets you started. Holler back if you have more questions.

[LPCollector]

Thanks very much for the help guy's!

[Joeydego]

Logic as stated is mac only. Protools is mac or PC. Not sure if you play out or not, but THIS will provide a backup amp as well as your interface to protools Avid Eleven Rack + Pro Tools | Sweetwater.com
If I were just getting into PT, I'd consider this being I can rack that interface and drag it to the gig and even integrate it with my amp. If not and you shop around, you'll find an affordable version of the software only and can mate it up with virtually any interface you like.

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by Joeydego

Avid Eleven Rack + Pro Tools | Sweetwater.com

Thank you!
I am grateful!

Does this statement, within the ad, mean that it would replace the need of any other interface to go directly out of my amp into this unit?

"And if you want to run your dry signal through your favorite amplifier, the Eleven Rack's instrument-level output acts as a traditional reamping box too."

[Joeydego]

Originally Posted by LPCollector

Thank you!
I am grateful!

Does this statement, within the ad, mean that it would replace the need of any other interface to go directly out of my amp into this unit?

"And if you want to run your dry signal through your favorite amplifier, the Eleven Rack's instrument-level output acts as a traditional reamping box too."

with this unit, you'd be able to line out of whatever amp you have if it has that capability into this/then into the computer, OR plug right into this while recording using one of its many sims to monitor and not make a final mix decision until you're ready to OR use this unit in the effects loop of your current live rig OR keep it handy as a backup amp in the live rig. Its like a POD, with arguably better sounds that'll act as an audio interface for your computer as well. More info HERE

[Red2112]

Hi LPC!

Yes my bad... VST´s and Mac! Sorry not a Mac guy yet...

So from what I understand you have a iPhone and a PC. Ok I´ll give you my opinion regarding Mac and Protools...

As they have stated above, Protools is THE industry standard in almost all studios now days and was limited to Mac not to long ago! Avid let go of there holding and are now opened to other platforms which is good news for Protools users.

The main reason I didn't go for Protools at the time, is because Protools, its applets, pluggins and whatever are expensive!!!! and because Protools has a high learning curve! If you wanted to get into this professionally, then yes I would suggest Protools, but as a hobby or a beginner there are easier and cheaper ways to get your recordings done! Once you know how DAW´s work, its alot easier to jump into Protools or any other DAW because basically they all work the same, just different ways to get around.

As BSCE stated all DAW´s have some sort of issues and/or work better then others in some cases, and some come with very usefully bundles (virtual instruments, effects etc..) It all boils down to what DAW you feel comfortable working with... It´s interface use and how easy it is to get around it, work flow etc.. and the need for bundles or not.

As a beginner I would look for a DAW with bundles, as right now I doubt you could hear the difference between a bundle EQ pluggin and a API EQ pluggin, and this I say with all my respect! Sure you might hear the difference, but will your public hear the difference? Recording, mixing etc. is a art form itself, as such YOU are the main ingredient. I have heard mixes done with a Soundblaster card and Soundfonts that could convince most public. That said, don't look for perfection and look at it as you are the artist after all, the rest are just tools to help you plaster your Ideas. Having the best set-up is not gonna make a difference if you don´t know what your doing. To be honest, at the beginning as a newbie almost anything is gonna sound good to you, so I would not bother getting the latest gear yet. As a example stated before... Your bass (not talking about your mix) is hogging your mix and sounds like a big ball, do you know where you bass lives in the frequency range? did you know your bass drum lives there too? How do you compensate this? What dose this have to do with what DAW your using? Nothing! See what I mean?

Since you already have a PC (no investment needed) and depending if your PC can hold up as a DAW... 1min. of recording = to 10mgb of hardspace and how many pluggins and tracks it can render at the same time. I would then go for PC as starter and then go on from there...

Reaper is free to evaluate as long as you like, and as long as you don´t make profit from it. It has it´s glitches as all and its learning curve, but since it´s free, you are free to explore how it works, and it comes with it´s effects bundle so you can explore the use of pluggins too. For Mac and PC.

REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits

I would guess you don't have a soundcard for your PC so here are some guidelines...

Now days most soundcards come with built-in pre´s which in a way it´s good and bad, because most built-in pre´s do not let you override the pre itself, so if you have a quality pre, your stuck with using the built-in pre! Preamp into preamp is a NO NO!

My suggestion is to find a card with at least one built-in pre and one input for a external pre if needed (your HK head), 2 outputs for monitors, MIDI I/O and (optional) S/PDIF I/O for external digital gear, and a firewire port to connect your PC.

For PC I suggest:
-RME Fireface 400 (expensive but very stable and very good AD/DA conversion) made in Germany.

-Echoaudio Audiofire 4 (same as above but not so expensive) made in US.

Echo Digital Audio Corporation

RME: Fireface 400

You can use the Echo on Mac too, in the future.

On PC apart from Reaper, you can also download demos of other DAW´s like Sonar, Abelton and Cubase...

Ableton - Free 30-day Trial

Cakewalk - SONAR X1 Studio - Now At Music Retailers - Download SONAR X1 Studio Upgrades

Trial Version*:*Cubase 6*|*http://www.steinberg.net/

Once you find one that your comfortable with, get a dedicated book to follow along as these DAW´s have ALOT to offer, and you would take a lifetime to know it all without a book... trust me!

Iam on my second set-up now, my first set-up on a Creamware Scope card sat in a room for a year beacuse I had no idea how it all worked! So trust me, I did alot of reasearch before I bought my actual set-up, and not to mention the money wasted on my first set-up! Let´s try to help you not make the same mistake!

I would also suggest that your PC be dedicated to it´s DAW! (I have a PC to surf, play whatever and a dedicated laptop for audio), DAW´s don´t get along with, games, photoshop or whatever, it´s a stability issue!

So, don´t say they never told you....

I bet you have alot to look at now Have fun and ask all you want! Let´s hope that between all of us we can get you on the right track and save you alot of time and money! Hope all this helps LPC and welcome aboard!!!!!

Good care,

Mike

[LPCollector]

Thanks again Joey and Mike!!

You guys are the greatest!!!

Looks like I have some studying to do.....

[decoy205]

It takes time. Do your research and see what works best Mark. Engineering these days requires a lot of computer geek knowledge. Try things out experiment.

There's tons of options which make it difficult to narrow down whats best for you but its better to have too many than too little.

Here's a good place to do some reading and search reviews on products you may have an interest in:
SOS Reviews: Soundcards-Software-Synthesizers-Recorders-Microphones-Audio Interfaces-Music Computers and more!

[LPCollector]

Thanks John!!!!!!!

I bookmarked that.

Between the DAW's and RAW's, MIDI's and VST's..........there are more anagrams in digital recording than the military uses.

I feel like I am learning another language!

[decoy205]

Yeah seriously! I learn something new everyday with recording. It's challenging and fun much like guitar.

[Red2112]

Originally Posted by LPCollector

Thanks John!!!!!!!

I bookmarked that.

Between the DAW's and RAW's, MIDI's and VST's..........there are more anagrams in digital recording than the military uses.

I feel like I am learning another language!

rgr. copy that...your clear to land

Just in case you don´t have enough...

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Care,