Different Magnet tones?

[Tuya Customs]

I haven't ever done a magnet swap so i wouldnt know the difference. Can anyone discribe the main difference between all Alcino magnets? I hate ceramic after having EMGS (yuck)

[kevinT]

Generally speaking, the mag is only one part of the picture. You also have to consider the componant metals, the wind, gauge of wire, etc...that can all affect the flux field of the pickup changing the way it processes the signal.

For example, an A2 mag in a high output pickup will sound different than one in a pickup with PAF specs.

These are only generalities and some of my experiences.

A2 can be said to have a rounded high end
A3 Fluty in the neck and woody/organic in the bridge.
A4 Clear and a bit twangy in the bridge
A5 Power and bite, clarity
A6 Similar to A5
A8 Well balanced across the frequency spectrum--better for high output pickups

Again, based on the specs of the other aspects of the pickup and the guitar's characteristics, they can sound totally different from one another and even similar. Then you have to consider the tone in the neck or bridge position...which can give you a whole different set of tones.

There's not a clear-cut answer.

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Generally speaking, the mag is only one part of the picture. You also have to consider the componant metals, the wind, gauge of wire, etc...that can all affect the flux field of the pickup changing the way it processes the signal.

For example, an A2 mag in a high output pickup will sound different than one in a pickup with PAF specs.

These are only generalities and some of my experiences.

A2 can be said to have a rounded high end
A3 Fluty in the neck and woody/organic in the bridge.
A4 Clear and a bit twangy in the bridge
A5 Power and bite, clarity
A6 Similar to A5
A8 Well balanced across the frequency spectrum--better for high output pickups

Again, based on the specs of the other aspects of the pickup and the guitar's characteristics, they can sound totally different from one another and even similar. Then you have to consider the tone in the neck or bridge position...which can give you a whole different set of tones.

There's not a clear-cut answer.

I´d like to add some and tell me if you think i´m wrong.

A2 a little compressed
A3 heard they are bright
A4 has good mids
A5 Power and bite, clarity scooped mids
A6 don´t know
A8 A good alternative to ceramic if you wan´t the ouput but not the harsh tone you sometimes get with ceramic.

That´s my idea of them.
I´ve got personal experience from A2 and A5 and Ceramic.
5F6-A loves Alnico 4 if i´m not wrong

[bryvincent]

The Magnet Swapping Thread

[Zhangliqun]

Originally Posted by kevinT

A5 Power and bite, clarity
A6 Similar to A5

I disagree. A6 is very thick and dark, with a huge mid and low mid bulge. Also a great deal more output. Not a very usable magnet for most applications.

[Tuya Customs]

Thanks guys. So a typical magnet combo would be A2 neck and A4 or 5 in bridge?

[Tuya Customs]

Originally Posted by bryvincent

The Magnet Swapping Thread

This helped ALOT thank you.

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Zhangliqun

I disagree. A6 is very thick and dark, with a huge mid and low mid bulge. Also a great deal more output. Not a very usable magnet for most applications.

Here are my test results that I did a while ago on gauss levels of different grades of mags. I measured them as they came out of the brick charged and I measured again after a full charge. As you can see, in terms of gauss, they are similar...at least with regard to the batches that I had at the time.

As I recall, I wound a pickup with PAF specs with an A6 and it sounded similar to A5. In fact, I found it to be harsh/brittle. I haven't messed with A6s for a while. When I get some time, I'll do some prototyping and testing again.

I used the Carlton-Melton gauss meter for the tests. I picked 3 mags from different areas of the brick to get a good representation.


A5
Before Charging (as they came) Full Charge
1. 491 North 567 South .......927 North 930 South
2. 611 North 598 South .......786 North 801 South
3. 765 North 747 South .......721 North 796 South

A6
Before Charging (as they came) Full Charge
1. 644 North 621 South........ 768 North 741 South
2. 721 North 605 South .......838 North 915 South
3. 633 North 576 South .......740 North 756 South

[jonesy77777]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

I´d like to add some and tell me if you think i´m wrong.

A2 a little compressed
A3 heard they are bright
A4 has good mids
A5 Power and bite, clarity scooped mids
A6 don´t know
A8 A good alternative to ceramic if you wan´t the ouput but not the harsh tone you sometimes get with ceramic.

That´s my idea of them.
I´ve got personal experience from A2 and A5 and Ceramic.
5F6-A loves Alnico 4 if i´m not wrong

I agree with this. The A2 is smooth and the A4 has great mids and a little more high end than A2. I am a big fan of A4's now, probably my favourite, and the magnet used in ALOT of original PAF's.

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by jonesy77777

I agree with this. The A2 is smooth and the A4 has great mids and a little more high end than A2. I am a big fan of A4's now, probably my favourite, and the magnet used in ALOT of original PAF's.

and you are rockin' that A4....clips sound great.

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

5F6-A loves Alnico 4 if i´m not wrong

you are NOT wrong my friend!!

[Tuya Customs]

Does anyone know what magnets the origional P90's used? I just ordered a GFS mean 90 and i'm thinking of a magnet swap because i like my mids high. The mean 90 comes with A5 magnets which, according to you guys, are scooped.

[captain tightpants]

Recently a big fan of the A4 myself. For me, my 8.87k ohm 496R/A4 is a tasty SG bridge pickup!! Fantastic for "Let There Be Rock" era AC/DC tone.

[River]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

you are NOT wrong my friend!!

Me too - neck and bridge. I'm not expert enough to know how much difference the magnet itself makes, but man, oh man - such articulation.

Re the P-90, I don't know, but the one I have is a Seymour Duncan Antiquity and claims to be a reproduction of a '52-'59. It contains a II.

[Tuya Customs]

I do love the sound of my rockfield SWC with an A4. I know its only a part of your sound but a magnet swap sounds like a cheap way to change your sound. Does anone have experiance with A3?

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by jonesy77777

I agree with this. The A2 is smooth and the A4 has great mids and a little more high end than A2. I am a big fan of A4's now, probably my favourite, and the magnet used in ALOT of original PAF's.

Yeah that clip you made with your new pickups from Kevin sure sounded great.

[Quill]

Really interesting thread. It seems most of the pickup winders I'm familiar with choose A2 and A5 for their PAF-style pickups. But I'm kinda dyin' to try A4! Even more so after reading the descriptions here. And KevinT, your description of the A3 is pretty interesting, too.

So where's everyone getting their magnets from?

[5F6-A]

Ideally a pickup should be wound keeping in mind the magnet that is going to dwell inside it. AIV is great but some tricks that winders use to make a AV loaded pickup sound great won't work very well if you put a diffenret grade alnico bar in.... does it make sense?

BTW, I bought some rough AIV bars from Jonesy some time back. He might be able to hook you in.

[Quill]

Of course that makes sense! Unfortunately. You know well what it's like to be working up the courage (and the finances! it would all be easy but for that little detail) to make a change in your sound ... I suppose I am hoping to entertain the fiction that I could get a feel for a few different kinds of magnets, using my Burstbuckers as a base for comparison (2 & 3, and what I think to be a decent pair at that), and then make a choice about which pickup maker and pickup to "try" - one should say, "make a serious commitment of both time and money to" - based on that experience.

But actually, the fact that you, 5F6-A, and River and the other posters here seem to lean a bit towards the A4 is especially interesting and is steering me that way - why? Idunno ... I suppose it's from just a few happy little details that sometimes emerge out of the forumiasma, I guess ...

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by Quill

Of course that makes sense! Unfortunately. You know well what it's like to be working up the courage (and the finances! it would all be easy but for that little detail) to make a change in your sound ...

Even on a tight budget i think that Jonesy is very cheap on the prices i´ve seen.
So talk to Jonesy

[Tuya Customs]

What were the origionl P90 and PAF magnets? Not the replicas...

[FF_Pedals]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Here are my test results that I did a while ago on gauss levels of different grades of mags. I measured them as they came out of the brick charged and I measured again after a full charge. As you can see, in terms of gauss, they are similar...at least with regard to the batches that I had at the time.

As I recall, I wound a pickup with PAF specs with an A6 and it sounded similar to A5. In fact, I found it to be harsh/brittle. I haven't messed with A6s for a while. When I get some time, I'll do some prototyping and testing again.

I used the Carlton-Melton gauss meter for the tests. I picked 3 mags from different areas of the brick to get a good representation.


A5
Before Charging (as they came) Full Charge
1. 491 North 567 South .......927 North 930 South
2. 611 North 598 South .......786 North 801 South
3. 765 North 747 South .......721 North 796 South

A6
Before Charging (as they came) Full Charge
1. 644 North 621 South........ 768 North 741 South
2. 721 North 605 South .......838 North 915 South
3. 633 North 576 South .......740 North 756 South

Thanks for the numbers KevinT. Do you think the magnets sound better when "Fully Charged"?

[captcoolaid]

Originally Posted by Tuya Customs

Thanks guys. So a typical magnet combo would be A2 neck and A4 or 5 in bridge?

A2A2 A2A5 depends on what your preference is. Best bet is to try different mags in different sets. They are in expensive and are quite easy to change.

[captcoolaid]

Originally Posted by FF_Pedals

Thanks for the numbers KevinT. Do you think the magnets sound better when "Fully Charged"?

I know I do. A weak magnet seems to have a blah tone or even a low volume, so yeah full charge for me.

[captcoolaid]

Originally Posted by Quill

Of course that makes sense! Unfortunately. You know well what it's like to be working up the courage (and the finances! it would all be easy but for that little detail) to make a change in your sound ... I suppose I am hoping to entertain the fiction that I could get a feel for a few different kinds of magnets, using my Burstbuckers as a base for comparison (2 & 3, and what I think to be a decent pair at that), and then make a choice about which pickup maker and pickup to "try" - one should say, "make a serious commitment of both time and money to" - based on that experience.

But actually, the fact that you, 5F6-A, and River and the other posters here seem to lean a bit towards the A4 is especially interesting and is steering me that way - why? Idunno ... I suppose it's from just a few happy little details that sometimes emerge out of the forumiasma, I guess ...

unfortunately the bb pro's will not give you any indication on any of the boutique guys. The BB's imho are lack luster compared to ALL the boutique guys here that I have tried. And yes I have tried many weather in my guitars or in friends.

[83135]

Originally Posted by captcoolaid

I know I do. A weak magnet seems to have a blah tone or even a low volume, so yeah full charge for me.

I'll throw in my $.02 on this statement.

The Duncan Antiquity (aged Alnico II magnet) in the neck position is absolute heaven on my R8.

The bridge Antiquity (aged Alnico II magnet also) sounded a bit flat and dull in both of my R8s even after numerous height/polepiece adjustments. I put a full strength Alnico V in it and the sound was so much fatter and vocal. I was playing around with it for 4 hours on Friday and could not believe the tone I was getting.

I was almost AFRAID to plug back in on Saturday for fear that the sound I was hearing the day before was just a fluke (you know those days where everything sounds good). But, to my delight, the same vocal quality was present and I couldn't be happier with my tone.

So, I guess my point is: there are no absolutes when it comes to tone. Tyr everything and see what sounds best to you.

[FF_Pedals]

I got in a set of A4's that I picked up off ebay, I haven't tried them yet though. I'll have to ask around the lab at school to see if I can dig up a Gauss meter.

[River]

Originally Posted by Tuya Customs

What were the origionl P90 and PAF magnets? Not the replicas...

I don't know. But if Seymour Duncan uses A2's for Antiquity P-90's, and the hand-winder I got my PAF replicas from uses A4's, I'm gonna guess...

[5F6-A]

aIV is very different from any other grades. Also -if I'm not mistaken- it lacks the Co in Al-Ni-Co.... ( ie no cobalt in it )

[Tuya Customs]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

aIV is very different from any other grades. Also -if I'm not mistaken- it lacks the Co in Al-Ni-Co.... ( ie no cobalt in it )

So the more cobalt in the magnet the more mids? (roughly speaking)