Gibson T-Top replica with a 490R or 490T?

[andrewflour]

Hail to the Forum! My name is Andrew and I'm an aficionado of this cool place where we can discuss, share, know and disagree on eveything about our les paul guitar! And please,forgive my english, I write from italy

Said this, I've read here several threads about Gibson T-Top and replicas, because I'm in love with Jimmy Page mid-70's live tone. It came out that modern 490R/T could be the Tbucker if magnet will change to short alnico 5.I know the real deal was polywire, 50mm bobbins lenght, short alnico 5 mag, about 7.8k resistance and not potted.

Now WHICH 490 could I choose to make this experiment? The R or T one? I know the T has wider poles spacing due to the strings in the bridge position but also read that 490R is very similar in global specs. My luthier will take the wax off the 490 I take, though I'll take it without cover.

Thanks for everyone who could help me!

[andrewflour]

No idea of what I'm talking about?
My question is quite simple: normal length 490r or further apart-poles 490T?
which of these two is the nearest of the T-Top?

[MrRhoads]

Go for the 490R since it´s lower in output.
Besides the magnet the 490 and the T-tops/T-bucker are identical.
T-Tops were around 7,5kOhm +- 0,25
But i´ve seen T-Tops that been 8,6kOhm.
But target is 7,5kOhm

[MrRhoads]

The wire is "polyurethane".
Read this is you haven´t Gibson PAF Humbuckers Pickups Patent Applied For Pickups M69 M-69 pickup rings - Vintage Guitars Info

[John the Revelator]

Ahhh, nice tip - didn't know that the 490R where possible... How exactly would you alter it?

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by John the Revelator

Ahhh, nice tip - didn't know that the 490R where possible... How exactly would you alter it?

Neither me, since I read this here in this forum! By the way, I'll take the 490R with open coils (black), it's easier because they're potted and the wax on the bobbins / downside the cover could represent a problem. Then I'll open the humbucker by loosing the four little screw from the back and change the magnet, being VERY careful to everything there. This process is explained very well on various sites. Check this out!

Project Guitar :: How To Change Out A Humbucking Bar Magnet

Then I'll close everything, solder on the pots in the guitar and got my fingers crossed!

[MrRhoads]

A word of advice.
If you accept pickups without covers there should be plenty 2nd hand.

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

A word of advice.
If you accept pickups without covers there should be plenty 2nd hand.

I'll take it brand new in a shop and "work" on it.
By the way, Thanks MrRoards!

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

A word of advice.
If you accept pickups without covers there should be plenty 2nd hand.

Another thing, MrRhoads: did you tried the magnet swap in the 490? How the effect was? Thanks!

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by andrewflour

Another thing, MrRhoads: did you tried the magnet swap in the 490? How the effect was? Thanks!

I did the magnet swap
I thought i had a 490T but it was a 500T, very different.

But my guess is that the Alnico 5 would tighten up the sound and give you more treble and some more power as in output.
Please make a demo if you try it

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by andrewflour

I'll take it brand new in a shop and "work" on it.
By the way, Thanks MrRoards!

You´re welcome
have a look at this site Humbucker magnets
They have alnico 5 short magnets.
I´ve heard something about shortmags in T-Tops but i don´t know for sure.

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

You´re welcome
have a look at this site Humbucker magnets
They have alnico 5 short magnets.
I´ve heard something about shortmags in T-Tops but i don´t know for sure.

Thanks for the link! It could be useful in other swapping moments too
Anyway I think I already have the short Alnico V mag, but I'm not sure. I swap the magnet out of the bridge of my Epi Black Beauty custom. To my surprise it is shorter than my other resting magnet (an A2 and A3) and looks identical to the photo shown on the site. Strange...who knows??
I'll demo when everything will on the right place, don't worry MrRhoads and MyLesPaul people!

[andrewflour]

UP: Seen the Epi catalog. It's a Alnico V magnet, from an "Alnico Classic HB" by Epiphone. Didn't know they use short magnets too. Good to know this!

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by andrewflour

UP: Seen the Epi catalog. It's a Alnico V magnet, from an "Alnico Classic HB" by Epiphone. Didn't know they use short magnets too. Good to know this!

Oh, good to know
My 2 little brothers both got epiphones with Alnico 5 classic humbuckers
One of them will be getting some ceramics from me and i´ll even swap them for him.
Maybe i should try some short mag.

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

I did the magnet swap
I thought i had a 490T but it was a 500T, very different.

But my guess is that the Alnico 5 would tighten up the sound and give you more treble and some more power as in output.
Please make a demo if you try it

I did it! I sounds AWESOME! You were right, MrRhoads. Putting a short Alnico V in a 490R has tight the sound of the pickup: now it's more consistent, mid-rangier,trebly and defined! Definitely yes, this humbucker is really the son of the famous T-top used by Jimmy Page, I can hear its vibe under my fingers in overdrive mode and when using middle selection switch (has a BB #2 in the neck). Mine is about 7,8k, black coils, four conductors (luthier installed phase reversing too, I had a previous push-pull on the guitar) but the output is as strong as the neck BB2 (8,2k). Maybe it's the Alnico V. Great!
Video demo in these days to come!
Thanks MrRhoads!

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by andrewflour

I did it! I sounds AWESOME! You were right, MrRhoads. Putting a short Alnico V in a 490R has tight the sound of the pickup: now it's more consistent, mid-rangier,trebly and defined! Definitely yes, this humbucker is really the son of the famous T-top used by Jimmy Page, I can hear its vibe under my fingers in overdrive mode and when using middle selection switch (has a BB #2 in the neck). Mine is about 7,8k, black coils, four conductors (luthier installed phase reversing too, I had a previous push-pull on the guitar) but the output is as strong as the neck BB2 (8,2k). Maybe it's the Alnico V. Great!
Video demo in these days to come!
Thanks MrRhoads!

Glad to have helped you
A alnico 5 gives you more output than a Alnico 2 magnet so that must be it.
I´d like to try this in the future.
Maybe if i can get ahold of some cheap 2nd hand 490´s
But i´ve got some other pickups on the "To Try" list
I´m looking forward to that video demo

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

Glad to have helped you
A alnico 5 gives you more output than a Alnico 2 magnet so that must be it.
I´d like to try this in the future.
Maybe if i can get ahold of some cheap 2nd hand 490´s
But i´ve got some other pickups on the "To Try" list
I´m looking forward to that video demo

Video demo recorded, hope you like it! This is for the future and for who cares!
Zeppelin Tones (IMHO). Enjoy

YouTube - T-Top replica in my Jimmy Page custom Les Paul

YouTube - T-Top replica in my Jimmy Page custom Les Paul

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by andrewflour

Video demo recorded, hope you like it! This is for the future and for who cares!
Zeppelin Tones (IMHO). Enjoy

YouTube - T-Top replica in my Jimmy Page custom Les Paul

I loved the tone
The video freezes at 1:24
Gonna try and watch it later and see if it works better.
Definetly gonna try this myself sometime

[John the Revelator]

Nice indeed - just the mid quack I'm going for! Got an old epi classic HB lying around and a 490R heading my way (swapping for a SD '59 neck I had)

[MrRhoads]

AAaaaaaAAAAaaaaaaAAAAaaaaaah
Finally i saw and heard the whole video
The Immigrant song and Stairway to heaven are my favourite songs with Led Zeppelin.
Awesome tone in that guitar
REally really loved that tone
Oh, gave it 5 stars at youtube

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

AAaaaaaAAAAaaaaaaAAAAaaaaaah
Finally i saw and heard the whole video
The Immigrant song and Stairway to heaven are my favourite songs with Led Zeppelin.
Awesome tone in that guitar
REally really loved that tone
Oh, gave it 5 stars at youtube

Thanks, Rhoads! Glad you enjoyed the tone of the guitar
And thank for voting the vid!
It's your merit too!
Rock on

[kmk108]

so...freakin.....badass....must...have...NOW!
So you did this with a 490r? I wouldn't have thought putting a neck pickup in the bridge would sound so sweet. I thought most gibson pickups only came in two conductor...how did you get 4?
BTW, did you used to have the jimmy page wiring on your guitar and put a video on youtube? I could have sworn I've seen you somewhere before

[kmk108]

Oh, and when you played the heartbreaker solo, If I wasn't watching, I would have sworn it's JP. Great pickups and playing

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by kmk108

so...freakin.....badass....must...have...NOW!
So you did this with a 490r? I wouldn't have thought putting a neck pickup in the bridge would sound so sweet. I thought most gibson pickups only came in two conductor...how did you get 4?
BTW, did you used to have the jimmy page wiring on your guitar and put a video on youtube? I could have sworn I've seen you somewhere before

Modern Classics
There you can read about the 490R/T and 498T.
Gibson installs them with 2 conductor wiring in their guitars but the aftermarket version is 4 conductor

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by kmk108

so...freakin.....badass....must...have...NOW!
So you did this with a 490r? I wouldn't have thought putting a neck pickup in the bridge would sound so sweet. I thought most gibson pickups only came in two conductor...how did you get 4?
BTW, did you used to have the jimmy page wiring on your guitar and put a video on youtube? I could have sworn I've seen you somewhere before

Thanks dude!
Really appreciate your words As you can read in this thread, I was looking for a T-Top replica 'cause I can't find the real thing. So I came here and read about the 490R/T-Top resemblances, and a person who's working for Gibson stated that. And MrRhoads the great also invite me to try. I convinced myself experimenting. Luckly got a short Alnico V magnet and put into the uncovered 490R with extreme attention, burstbucker 2 in the neck and...here we are!

Yes, I had the full Jimmy Page wiring before and posted on Utube on another video. It was funny but kinda useless, especially on stage. So I decided to get the reversing phase only, as it's written in the vids.

Hope this could help someone in the future.
Btw, thanks!

[John the Revelator]

How big difference is there between a short AlnicoV and long? (in mm please)

What's the main difference between the T and R...

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by John the Revelator

How big difference is there between a short AlnicoV and long? (in mm please)

What's the main difference between the T and R...

Long Alnico V magnets are 63 mm (generally the are all this lenght)
Short magnets are 57,15 mm (the common ones used and sold)
You can also find someone who sell short mags at 60,5 mm.
I have the common short one, polished, which measures:
2.25" x .5" x 0.125"

490T is 7.9k output and is pole-spaced for bridge position.
490R is 7.7k output and is normal poles spaced (read, for neck)
Has both Alnico 2 and 4 conductors, slight hotter winding the T.

I have the R in the bridge, which measures 7.88, pretty high respect of the standard output of this humbucker! But I don't care, sounds good anyway.
Hope this helps!

ps: an interesting thing: both this pups have a "T" stamped on the rear baseplate...they are such T-Tops sons!

[John the Revelator]

Ok, here goes - step one achieved!

As stated Epiphone pickups has got alnico V magnets in them:



What a lucky guy I am having one of these lying around:



So lets get that drummer's Dremel tool:



Safety goggles!



Free at last!



Unscrewing....



Lets get that little fellow out of its prison!



58 mm of my future...



To be continued...

Part II:

Newly arrived 490R (gonna dissect it next monday):



Stay tuned!

[MrRhoads]

John, read this Modern Classics
The 490R can range from 7.2kOhm - 7.9kOhm i think and
The 490T can range from 7.6kOhm - 8.6kOhm i think.
I know they can vary some.
That´s why also a 490R is more suitable since it´s got lower resistance

[andrewflour]

Originally Posted by John the Revelator

Ok, here goes - step one achieved!

As stated Epiphone pickups has got alnico V magnets in them:



What a lucky guy I am having one of these lying around:



So lets get that drummer's Dremel tool:



Safety goggles!



Free at last!



Unscrewing....



Lets get that little fellow out of its prison!



58 mm of my future...



To be continued...

Yeah John! That's a funny fotoromance!
Anyway, I support Rhoads in what he said: I also think that 490R could be the best way to walk on. And remember: be CAREFUL when you make the magnet exchange in the new pickup
Waiting for good news