Pickup Covers On or Off for Best Tone????

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Ray

"I couldn't resist..." as well...

Fresh blood – Maybe Fresh Ideas?

Great posts guys, even if this Topic has been covered a few times and good first hand info, that is what I was looking for. May be pulling the bridge cover off of Goldie soon

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by mrpesca

Dennis can't even leave Jonesy alone. At least you treat everyone equally.

Originally Posted by jonesy

Awww...I'uz just pickin' on him!!!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

Awww...I'uz just pickin' on him!!!

It's all good Dennis
Hmm, let's see...I may just have to start some New Threads, pick guard ON or OFF (Goldie does not even have a PG)or a Top wrapping thread, or How do you get that Slash Tone???

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by jonesy

....It's all good Dennis....Hmm, let's see...I may just have to start some New Threads, pick guard ON or OFF, or a Top wrapping thread, or How do you get that Slash Tone....

I'd be interested in those subjects! Have you ever tried 'reverse wrapping' your tuners?

'Reverse wrapping' your strings on the tuners....

[Ides of March]

this is real interesting. Here comes my stupid question. How do you get the covers off?

[Liam]

Just desolder the two joints on the back of the pickup. If they're waxed as well you have to warm them a little to get them to move.

[jonesy]

Some guys say to cut the solder joint with a Stanley knife but depending on how much solder there is it can be kinda hard and you have to be careful with the blade. You can damage the coils or break a wire while removing the covers so work slowly or you will ruin your pickup.

I heat the solder up and then gently put the blade between the cover and pu base, or you can pry with a little flat blade screw driver but again be cautious as to not jam it down into the coils

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by jonesy

you can pry with a little flat blade screw driver but again be cautious as to not jam it down into the coils [/COLOR][/B]

ouch!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Ray

PART ONE –

When I used to play live back in the 1970s, I typically took the p/u covers off myself - no big deal.

During the majority of my "active" musical career, I most frequently used my "Number One" which was a black Les Paul Custom (see photo).

BTW Ray, Really Cool Pics!

[180gROC]

Like usual for me around here, after reading this thread I busted out my soldering iron. I pulled the neck pu cover. It was a bit dark since I had installed the cover.

Big difference, and put the neck tone right where I wanted it to be. I couldn't get it too bright before, now I can roll back the tone knob a little bit, without feeling like I have the proverbial blanket covering my tone.

I didn't bother to install one on the bridge yet, but there is so much high end there, I'm not afraid of covering that one up at all.

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by 180gROC

Like usual for me around here, after reading this thread I busted out my soldering iron. I pulled the neck pu cover. It was a bit dark since I had installed the cover.

Big difference, and put the neck tone right where I wanted it to be. I couldn't get it too bright before, now I can roll back the tone knob a little bit, without feeling like I have the proverbial blanket covering my tone.

I didn't bother to install one on the bridge yet, but there is so much high end there, I'm not afraid of covering that one up at all.

so you've joined the group?: naked necks....covered bridges

[gmacdonnell]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I have covers on the pickups in my 06' Studio, just rewired it back to modern wiring and I like how it works and sounds. Was thinking about pulling the cover off of the bridge pu and seeing If I could hear a difference.

Any input on this subject would be appreciated???

Thanks, jonesy

You'll definitely hear a difference, but whether you like it or not is a different matter .

I've done the cover on/off thing with quite a few pickups. Interestingly, the slightly hotter of my 2 Pat. #'s had the cover off at some point, and it wasn't soldered in place when I bought it, so I heard it both ways.

IMHO, the extent of the change depends quite a bit on the type of cover, how thick it is, what it's plated with, etc.

With a thin, nickel plated cover, you'll gain a bit of treble, and maybe a bit of openness, (no pun intended,) without the cover.

With a thicker cover, (like some modern pickups use,) or gold-plating, that difference will be significantly more noticeable.


Some pickups seem to sound better with the covers on, imho. My Pat. #'s definitely do, and while I've never done an on/off test on the same pickup, quite a few PAF's I've played seem to sound better with the cover on.

It could be as simple a reason as Seth Lover designed them to compensate for the treble loss with the cover, so without, they can seem a bit bright.

But plenty of pickups seem to open up in a nice way without the cover.

If I were playing country or hard rock exclusively, I'd probably use an uncovered bridge pickup, because it adds a bit of treble, and when overdriven with a lot of gain that can help maintain clarity.

Good luck with your experiment!

[jonesy]

Great Posts...
I don't know about you Gibson guys, now you got me pulling the bridge pu cover off of Goldie. She's half naked and I like it!

Between pulling off the Gold plated cover which seemed really thick,(noted by Mac) and getting the pu a little closer to the strings for a little more "Grunt" ala Uncle Greg, I love the way this pu sounds uncovered.

I would say it has more upper mids more so than increased highs, and a bit more raw edge (Noted by Ray & Boles)when I was playing some of the high gain stuff. Also I kind of like the all business look of the Black, of course a Zebra might look good as well. I have had Strat Fever in the past, but I think I may have caught the Gibson Disease, here are a few pics I took. Also does anybody know what the marking LPOP inside the pu cavity stands for??

[5F6-A]

if you like it then it's alright pal!

[jonesy]

Thanks H., I am digging it for now

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by Ides of March

this is real interesting. Here comes my stupid question. How do you get the covers off?

[jonesy]

Never thought of that Dennis, and I have one of those I just heated mine up with the soldering iron and got most of the solder out of the way, then it cut pretty open easy with the Stanley knife. The Dremel is a handy tool for though for sure.

[180gROC]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

so you've joined the group?: naked necks....covered bridges

At my next string change, which will be within the week, I will be covering the bridge, so yes, consider my membership pending.

Now I'm stuck on adjusting polepieces... I think I'm over thinking it, but I have the time to waste, so I'm letting it all play out.

[5F6-A]

Lol!

[Torren61]

The pickup cover is grounded via solder to the back plate thus shielding it from electronic noise. The cover acts as a capacitor because of the gap between it and the coils. Even small "stray" capacitance can have an affect on a guitar's tone.

Some upper frequencies of the string vibration signal can go to ground with the cover left on. The higher the capacitance the lower the tone and the lower the capacitance the higher the tone.

Humbuckers are inherently designed to be less noisy than single coils but there is a small sacrifice of noise-to-higher-frequency-gain by removing the covers. The increase in noise is minimal compared to the gain in clarity.

I wish I were intelligent enough to have thought this out on my own but it's lifted and appended from "The Beauty Of The Burst" by Yasuhiko Iwanade. Great book. LOTS of info on LPs and their designs.

[jonesy]

Great Post, covers acting as capacitors..I can relate to that
Thanks for sharing Torren, good stuff. I wonder if Seth Lover had it thought out that way. I heard that maybe the early PAF's were wound to compensate for the covers?

[gmacdonnell]

There's a couple interviews with Seth Lover where he talks about the cover being adding and compensating for it. In fact, in the PAF Shootout article of ToneQuest Report, that's on top of the Pickup section of this site, they talk about that.

Personally, I never really understood why Iwanade said that about the PAF's. I've played many, and many early Pat. #'s, and covered or open, none of them had any lack of treble or clarity. In fact, some sounded downright harsh without the cover.

Modern pickups that are designed to sound fatter and warmer are a different story, esp. if they have a thicker cover, (as Jonesy noticed on his Gibson.) But on the older pickups, I think it's a myth, probably began with Clapton's statement that they "sounded so much better" with the covers off.

[Torren61]

It wasn't only Clapton that removed the covers....

[jonesy]

Jimmy Page Has the Bridge pu Cover Off of both these guitars...

[gmacdonnell]

Originally Posted by Torren61

It wasn't only Clapton that removed the covers....

Ya think?


The important point is that Clapton was the first famous player to do it, and in an interview said it sounded much better that way.

After that, it became pretty common practice, with Beck, Page, Allman, Alvin Lee and others following the trend.

In things like this, the first and most influential source is the most important when it comes to establishing a myth. "God" said it sounded better, so it must be so.

One of the Motown guitarists had his covers off long before that though, I think it was Eddie Willis. But he wasn't famous, and his every move wasn't scrutinized by guitarists on both sides of the Atlantic.


True PAF's and early Pat. #'s, and early T-Tops have quite a lot of clarity to the sound. All of them are fairly bright pickups, with some PAF's almost having a Telecaster-style tone. They don't need the covers removed to sound good, and they can sound too bright and harsh with them removed. Of course, they're all unique. But my point is it's a silly generalization to say the increase in clarity without the cover is huge.

[X–Ray]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Jimmy Page Has the Bridge pu Cover Off of both these guitars...

It is the same guitar... Just different bridge p/u's.
If I am not mistaken, this is Page's favorite '58 LP.
When I saw Zep in '77 he was using this LP Standard – with the bridge p/u cover off.

[X–Ray]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Ray

PART ONE –

When I used to play live back in the 1970s, I typically took the p/u covers off myself - no big deal.

During the majority of my "active" musical career, I most frequently used my "Number One" which was a black Les Paul Custom (see photo).

With the covers off, it definitely ran hotter with more bite & was brighter – less muddy.

When recording, typically, I would use a LP Standard with p/u covers ON for rhythm tracks – then record the Custom with covers OFF for the solo.

Over time, I would get restless and go back and forth from putting on and taking off the NECK p/u cover. However, the BRIDGE cover always stayed off – at least on my "Number One."

If you want to hear an example of the above - go to my MySpace and on my Playlist there is an old song of mine called, "Shot In The Dark."

The rhythm guitar is a LP Standard with the bridge p/u cover ON to soften it to let the Roland Space/Chorus Echo (I think a 301) come through a bit more.

Whereas the solo work is on my LP Custom with the bridge p/u cover OFF for more bite.

However, I do not recall if I used different amps which would certainly be a factor.

That is, both guitars might have been through a Marshall 100w Plexi, or one was through the Plexi and the other through a 60w Mesa Boogie...

Trivia: The studio at ElectraAssylum where we did this track, among others, was the very same room The Doors did their first album. It was a trip just being in that room...

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Ray

It is the same guitar... Just different bridge p/u's.
If I am not mistaken, this is Page's favorite '58 LP.
When I saw Zep in '77 he was using this LP Standard – with the bridge p/u cover off.

You are probably correct Ray, the Flame just looked different in the pics to me? Here is the Link to that thread, it has quite a bit of details about Jimmy Page's LP's if you would like to check it out in more detail, lot's of great pics there
UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com - CROTM: Jimmy Page (Detailed w/ many pics)

[uOpt]

Electrically, the effect of the covers is simple: they cause Eddie Currents inside the covers which dampen the amplitude of resonance peak of the actual pickup. That means the effect is about the same as using lower value volume pots.

Now, mechanically, that's the great unknown. Pickups move in the guitar, a lot. Just put you chin on the upper horn of a Strat or whatever and see how much it vibrates. The humbuckers wobble in their flimsy humbucker ring mount and move relative to the strings, and they are shaking.

This shaking can or will have audible effects as "junk" is mounted around the pickup, or in other words there will be some contiguous effect of the covers along the lines of when you tap them. These things aren't neutral. Every bit in a guitar shapes the total sound. It's why we didn't all switch to keyboards.

I have never tried to quantify the mechanical effect.

I did two runs with cover on/off in the same guitar, same pickups. What I heard is just the electrical part, about the same dampening as lower value volume pots. I couldn't hear mechanical effect. But these were regular production potted pickups (SD APH and 59), things might be different with unpotted boutique pickups.

Looks-wise, I like the looks of guitars that mix covered and uncovered pickups. It gives the "somebody cares enough about this axe to experiment with it a lot" aura.

[Torren61]

Originally Posted by uOpt

Electrically, the effect of the covers is simple: they cause Eddie Currents inside the covers which dampen the amplitude of resonance peak of the actual pickup. That means the effect is about the same as using lower value volume pots.

Now, mechanically, that's the great unknown. Pickups move in the guitar, a lot. Just put you chin on the upper horn of a Strat or whatever and see how much it vibrates. The humbuckers wobble in their flimsy humbucker ring mount and move relative to the strings, and they are shaking.

This shaking can or will have audible effects as "junk" is mounted around the pickup, or in other words there will be some contiguous effect of the covers along the lines of when you tap them. These things aren't neutral. Every bit in a guitar shapes the total sound. It's why we didn't all switch to keyboards.

I have never tried to quantify the mechanical effect.

I did two runs with cover on/off in the same guitar, same pickups. What I heard is just the electrical part, about the same dampening as lower value volume pots. I couldn't hear mechanical effect. But these were regular production potted pickups (SD APH and 59), things might be different with unpotted boutique pickups.

Looks-wise, I like the looks of guitars that mix covered and uncovered pickups. It gives the "somebody cares enough about this axe to experiment with it a lot" aura.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you? (just kidding....makes sense to me)