SD pickups-Vintage Labs vs. Paf's (clip and pics)

[dretot]

Hey guys,
Here is an excerpt from a video demo that I'm doing of the new Stephens Design Vintage Labs pickups. They're loaded in my '04 G0 lp. They're up against my friends '60 Burst that has a paf in the neck and a Pat# in the bridge.
The burst has a few issues: headstock repair, brass nut, replaced abr, chrome covers, replaced knobs and he installed grovers. My G0 is modified: refin(nitro top, tru-oil neck and back, mapleflame mod, bone nut, steel studs, pots and pio caps.

Anyway, first off, the Burst was amazing! New wood can't compare to old wood. The Burst was fuller in the frequency spectrum- more lows, slightly scooped mids and a clearer top, where my G0 had less of that low end and more mids. The Burst almost sounded semi-hollow in a way. My G0 weighs 8.5lbs and the Burst was slightly heavier, I guestimated 8.75lbs.

The clip starts with the Burst playing a lick followed by my G0 and goes back and forth trading similar licks. Before the Burst licks I do a single muffled string chunk, and before the G0 I do 2 chunks, make sense? I tried to find similar licks, there just simple blues licks.
The clean licks are all neck pu. (paf vs. VL) through a '65 Blackface Deluxe Reverb, then at the end there are a few dirty licks, bridge pu. (pat# vs. VL) Both amps were close-miced with Sennheiser 421's in to neve pre's to protools, dry.
I set up my guitar as close as I could to the Burst. Both guitars got a new set of dr pure blues 10's. The Burst had more neck angle and the bridge was up pretty high(2 sets of thumbscrews) with the tailpiece about a 1/4" off the top. I achieved the same bridge string break angle with my tailpiece all the way down. Both neck shapes were very similar.

Enough technical, here's some pics:



here's the clip:
http://h1.ripway.com/dretot/01%20quick%20vl%20comp.mp3

In a few days I'll post the full video demo. It includes an acoustic comparison of the guitars, like the Dimarzio 36th ann. clip, and I assure you, my G0 sounds closer to the '60 Burst than his Historic sounded compared to Larry's '59 Burst.

Well, I think these VL's sound pretty damn close to the paf's in the Burst! Wood aside, the basic tonality of paf tone is there! The search for an authentic paf clone is over. These are it!

more to come........

dre

[5F6-A]

wow... I'm lucky enough to have my own custom made VL bridge pickup ( # 004 ) and it sounds terrific. Thank you for the clip.

Bet Dave is happy!!

Can't wait for the vid!

[Telover]

Your review is precise and it should be a standard for anybody wanting to do one.
Good idea the chunks before the licks so to have istantly clear wich guitar is playing the very moment.
'll be waiting for the video.

[captcoolaid]

nice job. sounds good~!

[refin]

They sound identical to me.

[dretot]

Thanks guys,
Yeah, they're pretty amazing pu's. Dave's worked real hard to get these right, and I feel that he achieved exactly what he set out to do......... to clone, as best he could, a set of pu's that sound almost indistinguishable from paf's.
I can't stop playing these baby's. I've been to almost every blues jam I can find here in L.A. in the past 2 weeks and everywhere I go I get the same reaction, people just freak on how authentic they sound.

dre

[61LPSG]

Great format for a comparison. The VL's sound very impressive...close to the PAF's.
I love the neck clips. I'll be watching for the video.
Thanks for sharing.

[5F6-A]

listening carefully through some good headpohnes it's hard to tell any difference. I can hear a minute difference but in a band context it'd be almost impossible. Amazing.

[Liam]

First thing - great recording, and a good clean upload onto the web. It's so rare to hear anything that sounds genuinely dry, and even rarer to hear this stuff with a decent mic and preamp.

Your review is precise and it should be a standard for anybody wanting to do one.
Good idea the chunks before the licks so to have istantly clear wich guitar is playing the very moment.

I agree almost entirely with this, but would really like to hear some clean chord work compared, on both neck and bridge. This is the best pickup comparison I have heard so far, you've done a really good job.

I think the SD PAFs sound great, definitely caught the PAF "feel" perfectly. They don't sound quite identical through my headphones (I'll have to see if I can figure out a way of getting this onto big speakers), but that's probably got more to do with the guitars than the pickups. The vibe is there!

Liam

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by Liam

that's probably got more to do with the guitars than the pickups. The vibe is there!

Liam

ermmm I wouldn't be so sure. I reckon the pickups do have a lot to do with how similar those two guitars sound.

[Liam]

I think you need to read my post again.

They don't sound quite identical through my headphones <snip> but that's probably got more to do with the guitars than the pickups.

I was actually putting the differences down to the guitars. I've got a 50s LPJ as well as modern ones, and Dre's comments on the difference between old and new wood match my experience exactly.

The similarities (bit of an understatement, I know, but I'm British) clearly are down to an amazing pair of PAF sound-alikes.

[5F6-A]

I see now Liam...

Originally Posted by Liam

(bit of an understatement, I know, but I'm British)

I've been listening to the clips closely and I notice that the old guitar w/ PAFs sounds a hair thicker in the midrange. The VL is a touch hollower but it could be the guitar.

[dretot]

Originally Posted by Liam

First thing - great recording, and a good clean upload onto the web. It's so rare to hear anything that sounds genuinely dry, and even rarer to hear this stuff with a decent mic and preamp.



I agree almost entirely with this, but would really like to hear some clean chord work compared, on both neck and bridge. This is the best pickup comparison I have heard so far, you've done a really good job.

I think the SD PAFs sound great, definitely caught the PAF "feel" perfectly. They don't sound quite identical through my headphones (I'll have to see if I can figure out a way of getting this onto big speakers), but that's probably got more to do with the guitars than the pickups. The vibe is there!

Liam

Liam,
Thanks for your comments, I'm editing a video demo, which this audio came from, that has chordal stuff and all 3 positions. I just threw this together for a quicky. And, the Burst has a pat# in the bridge so the differences in those pu's are greater. The vl's were made to clone paf's.
I should have the video up by Sunday night.

thanks guys,
dre

[dretot]

I think we exceeded the bandwidth on the original link.
Here's another. It's titled "Quick"

SoundClick artist: trees of tar - page with MP3 music downloads

dre

[gmacdonnell]

Listened to it 5 times with Sennheiser studio reference headphones. I'd already thought Dave had done a fantastic job of capturing the "true PAF" sound, (not what most players think is a PAF.)

These great sound clips just confirm it. Yes there are some differences, but that's to be expected considering the huge difference in the two guitars.

But the dynamics, clarity and that transparency of pick attack is something very, very few modern humbuckers retain. Dave's pickups not only retain them, but they have the tone to go with it, that pure, stinging yet sweet, bright yet fat PAF tone I love.

I know we're talking different guitars here, but his pickups really capture the tones I love from my '62 Pat. #'s, which are in my ES-335, that I play through Deluxe Reverbs.

Anyway, thank you so much Dre, and congratulations to Dave Stephens, for his incredible achievement. 7 years of hard work, but listen to that pay-off. Fantastic. Can't wait to own a set.

[Nigel Tufnel's tech]

Dave has made a great pickup there, the slight difference in sound i hear i would put down to the different resonance of each guitar. A slight EQ change and the 04 would be a dead ringer in the sound department with the 60's LP.

..well done Dave and dretot for your clip.

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by gmacdonnell

Can't wait to own a set.

they will sound awesome in your #2 eventually Gabriel!

[gmacdonnell]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

they will sound awesome in your #2 eventually Gabriel!

Man, they sure will.

I think Dave has done an incredible job, and deserves a lot of credit for pushing through and succeeding at this design the way he has.
May he be blessed with the success he deserves!

Now I just need to find that #2, so I have something to put his pickups in!
(Anyone have a sweet ES-335 they don't want?)

[Nigel Tufnel's tech]

Originally Posted by gmacdonnell

Now I just need to find that #2, so I have something to put his pickups in!
(Anyone have a sweet ES-335 they don't want?)

I know how you feel, i got rid of mine at the end of the 90's. Last time i was in London i had a look at in this shop and felt i could really do something silly if I'm not careful, by that i mean do a runner with a guitar

looking for something like perhaps?

Our Catalogue - Vintage and Rare Guitars

..you may want to keep the pickups in though.

[gmacdonnell]

Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel's tech

I know how you feel, i got rid of mine at the end of the 90's. Last time i was in London i had a look at in this shop and felt i could really do something silly if I'm not careful, by that i mean do a runner with a guitar

looking for something like perhaps?

Our Catalogue - Vintage and Rare Guitars

..you may want to keep the pickups in though.

Yeah, that's sorta what I'm looking for...

It would considering leaving that one stock, though!

You know, John Scofield has a beauty very similar to that. But he says he prefers early 80's Ibanez Artstars, (great guitars.)
I asked him if I bought him an Artstar if I could get the '59.
He said no, unfortunately...

[Nigel Tufnel's tech]

Originally Posted by gmacdonnell

You know, John Scofield has a beauty very similar to that. But he says he prefers early 80's Ibanez Artstars, (great guitars.)
I asked him if I bought him an Artstar if I could get the '59.
He said no, unfortunately...

Do you know John!, that would be cool if you do, i love his some of his phrasing, maybe you should try 2 Artstar plus a couple sets of ibanez super 58 pickups next time.

[gmacdonnell]

I've met him a few times, and had a great time with him. He's one of the nicest guys I've ever met. When he was first breaking into the NYC scene, he got some of his first gigs through Steve Khan, and they've stayed friends. I took lessons from Steve for a long time, (still do when I get the chance.) So that's how I've met him.

You know, maybe next time I'll make that offer. I already have a new set of Japanese Super 58's in the closet at home...

But yeah, John's one of my favorite players. Have you heard his recent live album, En Route? Killer album, amazing playing and tones.

His phrasing is magical, he's so inventive.

He swears those early 80's Artstars are some of the finest semi's ever made, and I can't argue with him. He's owned a bunch of 50's and 60's Gibsons, but his 2 Ibanez's get all the attention. His #1 had to literally have some of the side re-attached to the body, it's gotten so much use over the years.

We'll have to see how he feels about 2 Artstars next time...
I'd even toss in a Celestion Blue, (he was raving about them last time I saw him...)

[5F6-A]

Last time John was in Córdoba ( 50 min frm where I live ) he was invited by Larry Coryell to have a jam with him a few younger players. I was in the group but unfortunately John was a bit too busy and he couldn't attend. Shame because there I was with Larry ready to blow him away with my Jazz playing.... not

[gmacdonnell]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

Last time John was in Córdoba ( 50 min frm where I live ) he was invited by Larry Coryell to have a jam with him a few younger players. I was in the group but unfortunately John was a bit too busy and he couldn't attend. Shame because there I was with Larry ready to blow him away with my Jazz playing.... not

Hopefully next time. Larry's a neat guy too. I read his autobiography and it's full of incredible stories...

John's a pretty open-minded guy, and he loves any kind of music that's down well. He likes country, rock and he loves blues. Some of the most fun I've ever had was playing some blues with him for 1/2 an hour, through his lovely Vox. What an education that was!

But he's a gracious man, and makes you feel good about yourself. I feel so lucky to have met him, talked to him, eaten huge NYC pizza, everything. He's just special. Steve Khan is as well, and he's a similarly incredible player, But he's kept out of the limelight.

Sco's even playing some slide these days. He picked up a lot of it from Warren Haynes, he said, and he's started using it at gigs.

Go Johnny, Go!

[5F6-A]

amazing....

Larry is very sweet too. I loved my time with him. He's a terrific player and a great guy. Aslo it was rather funny listening to him speaking Spanish with a slight Texan accent. He made fun of my Yorkshire accent too when we spoke in English.

[gmacdonnell]

Larry's great. His Monk, Miles and Trane album is one of the best jazz guitar albums of all time, imho.

He tells a funny story about being in Spain and getting chastised for playing with a pick!
Apparently, true guitarists use their fingers and nails, right Hilario?

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by gmacdonnell

k!
Apparently, true guitarists use their fingers and nails, right Hilario?

Well I do... I play fingerstyle exclusively.
The thing is I do it not because of the Flamenco school of playing but rather the Irish and English folk acoustic guitar... weird or what? I love Flamenco but it's a very demanding type of music and been so avalaible where I live I have always looked a bit further for inspiration.

Larry actually did comment about using plectrums when I last saw him. He told us he was playing with his bare fingers more and more these days and enjoying the purer yet fatter tone of flesh on steel.

[sapi]

Originally Posted by dretot

I think we exceeded the bandwidth on the original link.
Here's another. It's titled "Quick"

SoundClick artist: trees of tar - page with MP3 music downloads

dre

As far as i can hear that's very fine indeed great job Dave and thanks Dre

[gmacdonnell]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

Well I do... I play fingerstyle exclusively.
The thing is I do it not because of the Flamenco school of playing but rather the Irish and English folk acoustic guitar... weird or what? I love Flamenco but it's a very demanding type of music and been so avalaible where I live I have always looked a bit further for inspiration.

Larry actually did comment about using plectrums when I last saw him. He told us he was playing with his bare fingers more and more these days and enjoying the purer yet fatter tone of flesh on steel.

I love playing fingerstyle, too. I used to do it exclusively, but an accident my last year at music school cut the tendons in my right hand fingers, except the index and thumb. I've recovered some use of those fingers, but not enough to play fully fingerstyle, and anyway, I can't feel anything with most of my right hand, (makes it kinda hard to feel where the strings are!)

I've learned to do some Travis-style pickup with just the index, and I'm starting to be able to use the middle-finger more.

But I had to learn to play with a pick, much more.




Larry sounds great fingerstyle. I saw him in NYC, and I don't think he ever used a pick the whole night.

Aside from players like Duane and Peter Green, I really love the acoustic fingerstyle stuff.

We have so much in common! I love the Irish and English folk tradition, (and the American tradition of course.)

Davy Graham, (Rest in peace, Davy.)
Bert Jansch
Nic Jones
John Martyn
Tony McManus
Pierre Bensusan
Michael Hedges
Preston Reed
Laurence Juber

and the newer guys like
Eric Roche (Rest in peace, Eric. A wonderful man and musician.)
Thomas Leeb
Antoine DuFour
Andy McKee

[gmacdonnell]

Sorry to go off track.

Dave's work deserves full praise. I can't wait for the whole video.

And Dre, what an excellent job you've done!