The Official PAF Information Thread !!

[BOBBO]

I thought it might be a good idea to try and compile as much information on PAF's in one place as possible for the forum to learn from !! Please feel free to contribute any info you have on original PAF's !! To start it off , I found a good website with alot of PAF facts and history as well as some cool pictures !! Please take a look !!






Gibson PAF Humbuckers Pickups Patent Applied For Pickups M69 M-69 pickup rings - Vintage Guitars Info

Gibson PAF Humbuckers Pickups Patent Applied For Pickups M69 M-69 pickup rings - Vintage Guitars Info


Here is some of the info from the website !


Because of the amount of "bogus" PAF (Patent Applied For) Gibson humbucker pickups out there, I was asked to create this web page (thanks to GW Dean and BurstMeUp for information and pictures). This web page includes information on the pickups themselves *and* their plastic mounting rings. The originality of the pickups and their mounting rings are both important factors in the integrity of a vintage Gibson guitar.
There are some basic facts that should be known about these first-generation humbucking pickups. First PAF pickups came about in 1956 on Gibson steel guitar models, and on 1957 on many Gibson spanish guitar models, and lasted to about 1962 to 1965. Nickel plated part models transitioned away from PAF pickups first around 1962, since these guitars were sold in greater numbers. Gold plated part guitars can often be found with PAFs (or one PAF and one Patent# pickup) as late as 1965. PAF pickups of course have two internal coil bobbins under a 1.5" x 2.75" metal cover with one bobbin having a row of six adjustable slot-head poles, and the other bobbin being non-adjustable.

PAF History.
I guess we should start with a little history of the Gibson PAF pickup. By the mid-1950s, Gibson wanted to counter the latest electric guitars introduced by Fender. Leo Fender had built a company that was a sizable competitor in the solid-body guitar market place. Gibson believed they could beat Fender with their high quality Les Paul, and by developing a low-noise pickup.

The problem with Gibson's P-90 and Fender's single-coil pickups was inherent in their designs, allowing 60-cycle hum (noise) to interfer with the sound. Seth Lover was the Gibson engineer assigned to solve the problem. Seth connected two single coil pickups in series (opposed to parallel) and connected the coils out-of-phase electrically and magnetically. Thus the signal noise of each separate coil canceled out the noise of the other coil. That is how the pickup came to be known as a "humbucker".

Seth/Gibson filed their patent for the pickup design on June 22, 1955. Gibson added the new pickups to steel guitars in 1956, and in 1957 on electric solid-body and arch-top guitars including the Les Paul Model. During late 1957, a small black decal with gold lettering was added to the underside of the pickup that read, "PATENT APPLIED FOR" (hence the PAF abbreviation).

Seth Lover received his pickup patent #2,896,491 on July 28, 1959. By mid to late 1962, Gibson changed the pickup decal to read, "PATENT NO 2,737,842". Interestingly the patent number listed on the decal was not for Seth's pickup design but was for Les Paul's trapeze tailpiece! Perhaps this was a research roadblock for the competition, or maybe just a mistake?

PAF Magnets.
From 1956 until 1961 Gibson used different Alnico magnets in their PAF pickups. Alnico magnets (alloys ALuminum, NIckel, and CObalt) come in a different grades based on their magnetic strength. Gibson generally used the same magnets (size/grade) which was available for their P-90 pickups. But Gibson randomly used Alnico 2,3,4,5 grade magnets in PAFs until 1961 (remember the higher the magnet's number, the higher the magnetic strength). This can often account for how two PAF pickups can sound quite different. In July 1961 Gibson began consistently using a smaller Alnico 5 magnet (smaller as in the flat top side of the magnets were smaller lengthwise). The original length was 2.5" long, which was decreased to 1/8" long in July 1961. But the "short magnet" PAF can be seen here and there as early as 1960 and is still original. Just from a consistency point of view, July 1961 is the date considered by most as when short magnets were the norm for PAFs. Generally speaking decreasing the flat side size decreases the power of the pickups, but this was somewhat counteracted by the Alnico 5's added strength. So do short magnet PAFs sound better or worst than 1957-1960 long magnet PAFs? NO. In fact, they may sound better in many cases.

Dimensions of PAF magnets follow (measured using a micrometer, and obviously this will vary a bit from magnet to magnet): 2.509" long ("long magnet" version), .506" wide, .131" thick. The "short magnet" PAF length was the a bit different: 2.371" long, .491" wide, and .121" thick.

Pickup Wire and Winding Methods.
The pickup were wound with #42 plain enamel wire. On original PAFs the bobbin wire appears purple, versus later PAF and patent# pickups that appear reddish. Gibson eventually switched to polyurethane coated wire around 1963. When wire coatings change, the sound of the pickup does change, contributing to the PAF following. The amount of wire (and coating) wound on each bobbin determines the pickup's resistance. When the bobbins are wound with more than a nominal amount of wire (either on purpose or by accident), they are more powerful with fatter midrange but less treble. Due to the human factor and the wide tolerance of the manually-run pickup winding machines used by Gibson from 1956-1961, PAF pickups usually measure between 7.5 and 9.0 thousand ohms (K ohms). By 1962 (the end of the PAF era), Gibson was making pickups very consistently with 7.5k ohms of wire (give or take .25k ohms).

The separate bobbins of a PAF can measure very differently due to Gibson's manufacturing techniques. For example one bobbin could measure 3.5k, and the other 4.5k ohms (for a total of 8k ohms). This mis-matched ohms is actually a good thing, as certain frequencies will stand out if both bobbins have different resistance. This contributes to why two PAF pickups can sound quite different.

Around 1965 to 1968 (exact date unknown), Gibson changed from a manually-run pickup winding system to a fully automated system. Because of this their humbucking pickups all became a consistent 7.5k ohms from 1965 and later. The manual-run system had a machine operator that decided when a pickup bobbin reach about 5000 turns of wire. So there was plenty of room for under and over-winding. When the fully automated system came into place, the pickups were very consistent in their windings (and hence total ohms).

Gibson Models which Used PAF Pickups.
The 1957 to 1962 Les Paul Standard model is probably the most famous of the models to have PAFs pickups, though other models had them too. Like the ES-175, ES-295, Byrdland, ES-350, ES-5 switchmaster, L-5CE, the Super 400 and the ES-335/ES-345/ES-355 (when introduced in 1958/1959).

Jazz Guitar PAF Versions.
The hollowbody jazz guitars often used a slightly different PAF in the neck position which had different (narrower) string spacing, where the bridge position jazz PAF was identical to the neck & bridge PAF in say a Les Paul Standard. The models that used this narrow spacing neck PAF was the Byrdland, ES-350T, L-5CE, S-400CE and some Barney Kessel models. The distance on a narrow PAF from center to center of the two "E" adjustable poles is 1 13/16", compared to 1 15/16" on the "normal" spaced PAF pickup. Also since most of these models had gold plated parts, the narrow spaced PAFs would be gold plated (except on some Barney Kessels). If the pickup cover is removed from a narrow spaced PAF pickup, the "normal" pole position tooling marks can be seen on the narrow spaced PAF pickup.

[BOBBO]

Members .. Please add any information you think others might find interesting .. PAF facts , myths , schematics , pictures , experiences ( If you've played real PAF's ) , history , stories !! You name it !! If it's about PAF's post it ! Winders please contribute too !!

There is also lots of PAF facts in the Gibson PAF sticky thread in Tonefreaks !! Here is some great PAF facts from Flickoflash from that thread !!


7.3k - 8.0k AlNiCo 2/3/4/5 - Good range for neck pickups. Lower output equals cleaner and brighter tones so players leaning toward really clean tones should "think low". AlNiCo 2 provides the warmest tone, and AlNiCo 4 provides a nice crisp top and tight semi-big bottom that's good for jazz runs. AlNiCo 3 is in between A2 and A4 in terms of tone - bright like A4 but not as punchy - sizzling like A2 but not as warm. Properly treated, AlNiCo 5 can be sweet and balanced across the board in the neck position.
7.3k - 7.5k AlNiCo 5 Even Wind - Classic "T-Top" tone. The lower output doesn't drive your rig as hard as typicl "PAF" winds but these can work well for vintage rock tones with a cleaner character.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 2 Even Wind - Warm vintage tone with a hint of natural compression. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. Nice and smooth. More of a balanced "stereo" character than an asymmetric wind.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 2 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Midrange emphasis generally increases with increasing resistance. Excellent "PAF" tone.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 5 Even Wind - Sweet vintage tone the rounder punch of A5 on the wound strings and brighter top end as compared to A2. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. More of a balanced "stereo" character than an asymmetric wind.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 5 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Brighter and more open than the same wind with A2. Midrange emphasis generally increases with increasing resistance. Excellent "classic PAF" tone.
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 3 Even Wind - Open/balanced tone with more highend feel and a tighter bottom than AlNiCo 2 though with a bit less power. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. Has a little more "air in the tone."
8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 3 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Not as warm as AlNiCo 2 but better for really dark guitars or when you like more highend feel and overall open character.
9.4-9.7k AlNiCo 5 "Maximus" Wind - Provides enough drive for a more "gainy" sound, but retains a lot of the articulation and definition of a lower output pickup. Allows pairing with higher output at the neck. As with any HighOrder pickup, the actual DC resistance varies with the magnet wire lot on hand. Bigger builders have more control over this. I wind to turns though so the tone of the pickup remains intact while the dc resistance varies within a certain range.

[FLICKOFLASH]

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...t-applied.html

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...t-applied.html

Yes ... There is also very useful info in the Gibson PAF sticky thread !!! No content with your commercial Flick ?

[MIDNIGHT]

awesome info!

cool history

learned something new again

[BOBBO]

Pickup winders it would be really informative to hear some of the things you've found out about PAF's when you've examined them !!!!!!!!

[Weldaar]

(thanks to GW Dean

Who is this guy?
Dean Gagliardo or something like that?
Wasn't he the guy behind the development of the GoodWood pickup?

[BOBBO]

Here's a cool pic showing the interior of a PAF with magnet showing in the middle ! ...






The range of 1956-1961 is usually dubbed the era of early PAFs. These pickups were first used on lap steel guitars in 1956, on Les Paul Gold Top, and Les Paul Custom electric solid-bodied guitars in 1957.

These early PAFs tend to differ from each other significantly in terms of output level and tone - many factors are quoted as a reason for such difference:

Gibson pickup winding machines were manual-operated at that time and had no mechanisms to automatically cut the wire after a set number of turns. Thus the pickups had a different number of wirings and that lead to variation in the output and tone.
Gibson used Alnico magnets in PAFs, the same magnet as used in the P-90. Alnico has several different grades and different magnetic properties (grades 2, 3, 4 and 5 are usually used), and Gibson assigned them quite randomly until the end of the era of early PAFs. The most common of these are though Alnico IV. British pickup designer Tim Mills of Bare Knuckle pickups had spoke with Seth Lover, who revealed this. They had also been found in many order sheets that Gibson oredered many Alnico IV magnets.
Original pickups manufactured in that time are over forty years old and thus their characteristic may have changed significantly over time.
Early pickups were wound with #42 plain enameled wire, this wiring looks purple, as opposed to later varieties.

Since July 1961, Gibson standardized the PAF construction process. A new, smaller Alnico 5 magnetic plate became standard. In about 1963, Gibson switched to polyurethane-coated wire, thus changing the tone yet again, and wire color from purple to red. About 1965-1968, automatic pickup winding machines came into use, thus making pickups that had a consistent number of turns and fixed impedance.

In about 1967, the original PAF design changed, so it became known as a next Gibson humbucker, called T bucker

[rockinlespaul]

Originally Posted by Weldaar

Who is this guy?
Dean Gagliardo or something like that?
Wasn't he the guy behind the development of the GoodWood pickup?

I think it is Dean, Jeff.

[BOBBO]

After posting these pics it has been pointed out that these most likely are not PAF's .. please do not use these pics as PAF reference .. I'll leave them up for discussion sake ! Here is the website I found these supposed PAF's up for sale !

Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - 1959-1960 Gibson P.A.F. pickup

Originally Posted by BOBBO

BOBBO!! Sweet dude!!

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by MotorCity Pickups

BOBBO!! Sweet dude!!

Motor .. You must have some good PAF tidbits to contribute ?

??

asdf

[Weldaar]

I think it is Dean, Jeff.

Would you happen to have his email address?

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by MotorCity Pickups

59'?....

I'm not sure of the year on those double whites !

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by MotorCity Pickups

Yeah, I do. I gotta find the Sd card with all the Logged photos and research....I usually photo the picture with a filled out log on specs to refer to later in the photo. Just something I like doing....I gotta dig them through.

Well when you dig through it I'd love to see those pics and hear about some research findings !

Ok then

[Dave Stephens]

This collector who put this info up on provide-net is fairly knowledgeable but there are some big mistakes in his articles. The most obvious one is that Gibson PAFs used stainless steel or brass covers. These were NEVER used and no valid reason for ever having been used, especially BRASS. Brass kills tone quicker than you can blink and Seth Lover knew this. This guy doesn't have the knowledge that pickup makers have; I tried to correspond with him once and he wasn't very friendly at all. I'm sure if any other pickup makers here want to pipe in, especially Nugget, they can point out other mistakes in the information. I guess some valid info is better than none. Lindy Fralin has a two part article on the web which is much more accurate. As I said before don't believe everything you read just because its on the web.
Here's Lindy's info:
http://www.flyingvintage.com/gcmag/PAF.html
http://www.flyingvintage.com/gcmag/PAF2.html

hummm

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by Dave Stephens

This collector who put this info up on provide-net is fairly knowledgeable but there are some big mistakes in his articles. The most obvious one is that Gibson PAFs used stainless steel or brass covers. These were NEVER used and no valid reason for ever having been used, especially BRASS. Brass kills tone quicker than you can blink and Seth Lover knew this. This guy doesn't have the knowledge that pickup makers have; I tried to correspond with him once and he wasn't very friendly at all. I'm sure if any other pickup makers here want to pipe in, especially Nugget, they can point out other mistakes in the information. I guess some valid info is better than none. Lindy Fralin has a two part article on the web which is much more accurate. As I said before don't believe everything you read just because its on the web.
Here's Lindy's info:
www.FlyingVintage.com - Guitar Collector's Magazine - October 2001 Issue - Lonnie Mack: Mr. Flying V and His Gibson Signature Guitar
www.FlyingVintage.com - Guitar Collector's Magazine - November 2001 Issue - A Few Secrets About Gibson PAF Pickups, with Lindy Fralin: Part 2

Knowledge of PAF's is not my strong suit so I just copied and pasted what little I could find on the internet !! That's why I would love for Winders to give us the facts !!!

[BOBBO]

The Lindy Fralin stuff was great !! Thanks Dave !!!!!!

[WBPickups]

Originally Posted by BOBBO

A rewind or ? Not completely an original. Where did these pictures surface at? Just really curious. Looks cool.

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by WBPickups

A rewind or ? Not completely an original. Where did these pictures surface at? Just really curious. Looks cool.

I am no authority on PAF's !! I got the pics from this website !!

Gibson PAF Humbuckers Pickups Patent Applied For Pickups M69 M-69 pickup rings - Vintage Guitars Info

[BCRGreg]

Those two coils did not leave the factory on the same day.

[WBPickups]

Originally Posted by BCRGreg

Those two coils did not leave the factory on the same day.

Nor did they leave with with that grey wire protecting the leads. The screws look odd to me as with the bobbins scratched on the inside of the line where they meet.


Which leads me to believe they have been aged before assembled. The tape looks a little to perfect around the bobbins which out of all the old suckers I have seen. That looks pretty. I may be wrong but that just doesn't look right to me.

Edit, the sight holes have got me scratching my head too...

Edit again... Where's the dark PE Wire in the sight holes? Looks reddish...

[WBPickups]

Originally Posted by BOBBO

I am no authority on PAF's !! I got the pics from this website !!

Gibson PAF Humbuckers Pickups Patent Applied For Pickups M69 M-69 pickup rings - Vintage Guitars Info

Don't believe everything on the internet. LOL! I am not suggesting that is a fake but it doesn't look right to me and I know that Greg will agree. He has seen quite a few originals in his time.

What I find amusing is that there is more "original PAFs" today floating around then the 50's!

[Dave Stephens]

where did you get those pix? They are not on the site link you posted?

Yeah, the tape does'nt look right, but the thing I noticed was the slight warp on the ends of the bobbins, especially the screw bobbin is missing, both are nice and flat. Not saying they were all this way but everyone that I have seen has the warp.

Also wheres the square in the hole on the right one. Wish I could see the tooling marks on the legs.

[BOBBO]

I got the pictures of the double whites in question from a site in Stockholm Sweden selling them as 59 / 60 PAF's ! The link is below ... This is why I started this thread ! I dont know how to authenticate a real PAF ! Please point some things out that will help people identify a real PAF ! Do any of you Winders have pictures of PAF's you've had or worked on ?? That you know are 100 % ?!!



Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - 1959-1960 Gibson P.A.F. pickup

Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - 1959-1960 Gibson P.A.F. pickup

I believe these are real ?? Not so sure now ..