1955 p-90

[bill m]

I just had a 1955 les paul junior pickup come in for a restoration. Actually the bobbin was totally disintegrated and it fell apart even more just from being touched. But, to no avail, I took on the challenge to restore this pickup to its former glory.

This 1st and 2nd pic is of the bobbin stripped of the magnet wire. These pic's show what I've been saying about the start lead making almost a full turn inside the bobbin. This is typical of 50's p-90's and PAF's





This pic is of the magnet thickness. I'm still searching for the the thick magnets that some are saying exist. With over 150 1950's p-90 and paf rewinds under my belt, I haven't seen any yet. Most range from .122" to .131" and this is the exact tolerance of the magnets I use for my builds today.


I want to thank Jon Gundry for the replica bobbin for this restoration. Thank You Jon!!!



Here's a vintage 8 hole keeper bar, which is also the same as used in PAF's




This is the blob of PE wire that came off of this pickup. I couldn't get an exact turns count as the wire could not be totally unwound off its bobbin, but I did get a Turns Per Layer and wire diameter. With this info plus the weight of the removed wire, gives me an approx. turns count and approx DCR of this pickup, which will be rewound to 8.2k ohms

[Wraptail]

Thanks for sharing!

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by bill m

What a funny shape the screw head has, isn't it?

Or is my ignorance 'bout real vintage p'ups talking here?

Bill...?

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by LtKojak

What a funny shape the screw head has, isn't it?

Or is my ignorance 'bout real vintage p'ups talking here?

Bill...?

That's what the real long early P90 screws looked like.

Bill, I have some 50s P90 bobbins here that don't need winding..

Second glance at that wire, it sure does look like a new penny to be PE..

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by Dougie

That's what the real long early P90 screws looked like.

You see, you can learn something new every day, if you so wish... thank you, Dougie!

Originally Posted by Dougie

Second glance at that wire, it sure does look like a new penny to be PE..

I think it's the lightning playing tricks here... I've never seen PE that's so light in color; it looks like formvar from early Fender p'ups!

[Dougie]

I have some 1" long screws that came out of a real early P90, there is a pic of them in the post I made about the keepers. They have the more beveled ovalish looking shape to the head.

Looking in Bill's one pic where you can see the screws they are blury but they look 3/4" and not 1" long.

[copperheadroad]

Some of the vintage Plain enamel has that Orange cast to it when comparing to modern PE

[bill m]

I'm sorry about the lighting and my crappy camera. The pole screw heads are not distorted like they look in the 1 pic. they are just the normal variety short headed ones.

The PE wire in real life is a light brown, almost with a redishness to it. Again the color in my pic is way off. I've seen this color of PE many times before from the 50's, also on Fender tele pickups from the same era.

[bill m]

Originally Posted by Dougie

Bill, I have some 50s P90 bobbins here that don't need winding..

Are you offering? If so, send them up, I'll take them.

[ThroBak]

Crap you mentioned the start lead. Seriously I have never seen it mentioned online before and decided I never would. Personally I think it is an important detail. Basically the start lead is a obstacle to the windings and creates some degree of scatter in the coil. There is a real practical reason why Gibson did this. If you fish a long pigtail lead though the bobbin before you put it on the winder you basically have the bobbin holding the start lead for you. This method is like having a third hand at work for you. And if the bobbins are stacked when wound, like 50's P-90 bobbins were, it makes attaching the magnet wire to the pigtails a much simpler operation. It avoids a lot of chances to snag magnet wire in a stacked multi-bobbin winder. Gibson just folded a piece of tape over the solder joint and did not tape it to the inside of the coil former. Then they wound a few turns by hand then let the machine run.

Bobbin as third hand.



Glad to hear the ThroBak bobbins worked well for the repair.

[bill m]

OK, Here's the ball of magnet wire in the sun. Again shot with my crappy camera.



On the right is the vintage p-90 pole screw, on the left is an ECP replica p-90 screw made of the proper steel alloy.



Sorry for my crappy camera. I think its time to get a new one.

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by bill m

On the right is the vintage p-90 pole screw, on the left is an ECP replica p-90 screw made of the proper steel alloy.

Man, talking 'bout a SCREW, for crying outloud!

I just don't see how you can get any geeker than it already is...

Did I say that repro screw of yours looks simply FABULOUS?

Geek, did you say...?

[SKATTERBRANE]

Originally Posted by bill m

Demi Moore, is that you?

[bill m]

Originally Posted by LtKojak

Man, talking 'bout a SCREW, for crying outloud!

I just don't see how you can get any geeker than it already is...

Did I say that repro screw of yours looks simply FABULOUS?

Geek, did you say...?

Yes I am a geek. I cann't help it.

I should have chosen one of the vintage p-90 screws that the screw slot wasn't so messed up and you would of had a better comparison of the 2 screws. On another note the short head screws were not only used on p-90's, they were also used on paf's.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by bill m

Austin Powers' wig?

When my ex would see a pile of auburn plain enamel in the trash, she'd say it looked like I killed a brunette hooker. Now I have just the perfect excuse should I ever have to do just that.

[HOT-BRIT]

Well done

[jamman]

Good stuff Bill , but sorry , I think your no geek . Cool guy , Yup .

[bill m]

Originally Posted by jamman

Good stuff Bill , but sorry , I think your no geek . Cool guy , Yup .

Thanks Jeff. It was a pleasure meeting you in Orlando.

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by bill m

Yes I am a geek. I can't help it.

You know what they say: "It takes one to know one".

Anyway, as I said in another thread: Geeks and Nerds are the real rulers of the world. And we're so good at it that actually nobody even notice it!

I'll always welcome any person who's dedicated to acquire knowledge and embrace science to achieve the goal.

Originally Posted by bill m

I should have chosen one of the vintage p-90 screws that the screw slot wasn't so messed up and you would of had a better comparison of the 2 screws. On another note the short head screws were not only used on p-90's, they were also used on paf's.

Well, I think the example was more than good enough for the comparison, Bill.

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by jamman

Good stuff Bill , but sorry , I think your no geek . Cool guy , Yup .

When I'm called "nerd" or "geek", I take it as a cumpliment, jamman.

I always say "thank you; I really appreciate, coming from YOU"

[Dave@Martin6String]

I am such a geek, I enjoy threads like this and I pick my nose in an Orlando elevator.

BAWHAHAHAHA

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by bill m

I'm sorry about the lighting and my crappy camera. The pole screw heads are not distorted like they look in the 1 pic. they are just the normal variety short headed ones.

The PE wire in real life is a light brown, almost with a redishness to it. Again the color in my pic is way off. I've seen this color of PE many times before from the 50's, also on Fender tele pickups from the same era.

Bill, You notice brown wire more from earlier 50's p90's than later? I've had both lite brown and darker purple but, never really thought about it too much. Just figured it was random?

[bill m]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

Bill, You notice brown wire more from earlier 50's p90's than later? I've had both lite brown and darker purple but, never really thought about it too much. Just figured it was random?

Yes, The redish/brown wire seems to be a little more predominant in the mid 50's, then more purpleish in the late 50's

[cooljuk]

Is there a simple way to (chemically?) remove the enamel from PE to take micrometer readings of the copper itself, versus the enamel thickness? Will acetone strip it?

Has it ever come up about the difference in old and new enamel average thickness and the copper underneath. What are your thoughts, Bill? …or anyone? This could make a difference in capacitance over the entire coil.

It's been on my mind, but my experiments in various wire gauges have left me without answers. …of course, I can only order in increments in half-gauges. Probably too course of a scale for any real answers.

[bill m]

I know there is a chemical stripper to strip insulation off magnet wire, but I'm not certain what it is. I don't worry to much about the wire of the old days and worry more about the wire I can buy now. I cann't afford to have a special run of PE made for me so I don't worry about it much. Things like the annealing of the copper was different back then.

[RAG7890]

Thanks for posting this Bill...........really interesting stuff.

[jamman]

Originally Posted by LtKojak

When I'm called "nerd" or "geek", I take it as a cumpliment, jamman.

I always say "thank you; I really appreciate, coming from YOU"

I understood that . I was just adding my 2 cents . It's all good .

And it was great to Meet Bill after all this time . Matt too . Next year , I'll be early (Bill understands this 1 )

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by jamman

Next year , I'll be early

You mean SOBER?

Sorry... I just couldn't resist.

[SKATTERBRANE]

I think lacquer thinner will take if off. Lacquer thinner is very dangerous to enamel finishes.

[SKATTERBRANE]

One very well known pickup winder told me the wire diameter lower and upper limits and the ideal before AND after the enamel was put on. It seems that the wire I use (Elektrosola) is pretty much dead on, spec wise.