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Unread 10-21-2012, 05:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Hi guys!

What do you think about my "new" beauties?

1)
Top1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Mag1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Wire1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

2)
Top2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Mag2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Wire2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Both with the Patent sticker, Philips base screws and tooling marks.

What do the experts think? Late or early PS?
Aproximate year?
Why?

What can I expect, tone wise?
How much different to a PAF? And to a T-Top?
Wouldn't be able to give them a try in a looooong time...

Thanks a lot!
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Unread 10-21-2012, 05:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

They don't get any love from me.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 08:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by josep_cla View Post
Hi guys!

What do the experts think? Late or early PS?
Aproximate year?
Why?

What can I expect, tone wise?
How much different to a PAF? And to a T-Top?

I am asking those questions, if you don't mind.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 08:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

They are late, and other than the bobbins, they are just like T-Tops as it comes to magnets and wire, etc. They do not resemble PAFs tonally speaking.

Mid 1963-1965. If the pole screws are chrome, then definitely 1965.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 09:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE View Post
They are late, and other than the bobbins, they are just like T-Tops as it comes to magnets and wire, etc. They do not resemble PAFs tonally speaking.

Mid 1963-1965. If the pole screws are chrome, then definitely 1965.

Cool info! Thanks!
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Unread 10-21-2012, 09:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE View Post
they are just like T-Tops as it comes to magnets and wire, etc.
Wait, but the magnets are one long and one short, aren't they?
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Unread 10-21-2012, 09:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

The short magnets became regular production in 1961 (although long magnets have been used intermittently since) The late Pat Nos used the same short A5 magnets as the T-Tops.

You cannot determine the length of the magnet just by looking at the one end. It is only 1/8" difference and how far it peeps out at one end will not tell the story.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 11:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

So I got PAF bobbins with T-Top sound?

Perfect!!
I am very happy with that, as I love the sound T-Tops can produce!!



But, any significant sound difference between these and later T-Tops?
Just curious...
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Unread 10-21-2012, 11:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Franco is still dead.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 12:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

I have a couple of mismatched T-tops with the PAT# stickers and love the sound of them, particularly the bridge pickup which reads 7.2k.
Let us know what you think when you put them in a guitar and have a listen.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 05:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfman View Post
I have a couple of mismatched T-tops with the PAT# stickers and love the sound of them, particularly the bridge pickup which reads 7.2k.

I have a basket full of stickered T-Tops and the original ones in my '71 and my '76.
Just because I love how they sound.

I expect these to be slightly different animals.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 11:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by josep_cla View Post
I have a basket full of stickered T-Tops and the original ones in my '71 and my '76.
Just because I love how they sound.

I expect these to be slightly different animals.
I love t-tops....I have 4,and one non t-top.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 11:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Those pickups are definately after early 1964 and before early 1965, when the t-top bobbins were used. I have early 1964 pat stickers with pe wire and double black lead wires, which are just like late paf's.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

They look "late" to me; white lead, bobbin wire redish/not purple, etc.
My guess 64/65....
Think you can expect nice sounding pu's .... :-)
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Unread 10-22-2012, 06:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by refin View Post
I love t-tops....I have 4,and one non t-top.

Haha.
One of my fave pickups!

How your pre-T-Top compare to them?
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Unread 10-22-2012, 06:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoork_1 View Post
They look "late" to me; white lead, bobbin wire redish/not purple, etc.
My guess 64/65....
Think you can expect nice sounding pu's .... :-)

My same guess.

I expect them to be, thanks!
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Unread 10-22-2012, 06:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill m View Post
Those pickups are definately after early 1964 and before early 1965, when the t-top bobbins were used. I have early 1964 pat stickers with pe wire and double black lead wires, which are just like late paf's.

So, middle '64

Sir, "pe" stands for "plain enamel"?

Yes, the wire in these looks very different to the purple wire in my PAFs.

Thanks!
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Unread 10-23-2012, 01:09 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

I have a late PAF with red'ish bobbin wire reading 7.1-7.2K. At least one bobbin has been tampered with so to some people it isn't worth much....

Nice thing though, it drives the amp sooo hard and sounds really good.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 03:43 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoork_1 View Post
I have a late PAF with red'ish bobbin wire reading 7.1-7.2K. At least one bobbin has been tampered with so to some people it isn't worth much....

Nice thing though, it drives the amp sooo hard and sounds really good.

I have an early one with the purple wire that also had one bobbin messed with.
6.3K
Unbeliavable sound in bridge position.

Wasn't worth enough to the seller hehe
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Unread 10-23-2012, 03:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoork_1 View Post
I have a late PAF with red'ish bobbin wire reading 7.1-7.2K. At least one bobbin has been tampered with so to some people it isn't worth much....

Nice thing though, it drives the amp sooo hard and sounds really good.
Does the wire look like in mine?

Thanks!
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Unread 10-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by josep_cla View Post
Haha.
One of my fave pickups!

How your pre-T-Top compare to them?
The non t-top is actually warmer..........it's in the neck of my '55.David Plummer of Zhangliqun rewound a coil perfectly.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 01:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

I've seen a few shades of old PE wire. Some is more brown than purple or maroon. That's a pretty bright looking copper though. It's different than the real old PE.

Oh, yes PE = Plain Enamel

I'd patch that little spot of exposed coil on the non-taped side of the slug coil shown in that photo. The original coil tape could have just been worn from the covers being installed/uninstalled roughly or whatever, but I'd patch it to protect the wire and avoid corrosion. If you're really slick, you could use the existing tape and just move the hole of one layer over a little so it's still all original.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by josep_cla View Post
Does the wire look like in mine?

Thanks!
Yes, it is quite like your "Top2"....
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Unread 10-23-2012, 06:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljuk View Post
I've seen a few shades of old PE wire. Some is more brown than purple or maroon. That's a pretty bright looking copper though. It's different than the real old PE.

Oh, yes PE = Plain Enamel

I'd patch that little spot of exposed coil on the non-taped side of the slug coil shown in that photo. The original coil tape could have just been worn from the covers being installed/uninstalled roughly or whatever, but I'd patch it to protect the wire and avoid corrosion. If you're really slick, you could use the existing tape and just move the hole of one layer over a little so it's still all original.

Bright looking copperis better, right?


Just kidding.
Thanks for sharing!
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Unread 10-23-2012, 06:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by josep_cla View Post
So, middle '64

Sir, "pe" stands for "plain enamel"?

Yes, the wire in these looks very different to the purple wire in my PAFs.

Thanks!
Yes, I'm sorry PE, stands for Plain Enamel.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 06:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljuk View Post
I've seen a few shades of old PE wire. Some is more brown than purple or maroon. That's a pretty bright looking copper though. It's different than the real old PE.
I've seen reddish PE used in some of the earliest grey bottom Fender pickups. It's not red like the poly wire, as its a bit darker almost bordering a Burgundy color.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 06:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

I thought PE stood for "pickup education".
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Unread 10-23-2012, 11:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE View Post
I thought PE stood for "pickup education".
That's too much work to be acomplished in only one lifespan...
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Unread 10-24-2012, 04:25 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Some pics....

PAF late (red'ish) has ben tampered with


Pat no (red'ish)


PAF late (purple)


Pat no (purple)


PAF late and Patent No


Base plate colour.... Haven't seen this yellow tint before....
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Unread 10-24-2012, 11:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Gibson Patent # Sticker pickups

Looks like there's a layer gunk on there. It's cracking off in the slug-side corners.
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