So why would you want low output pickups?

[The_Sentry]

So, a lot of the old-timers (even those old-timers at heart) tend to eschew the high output pickups for lower output. "Vintage" tones aside...why would someone want this?

Well, for me...it comes down to a question of control. If you use volume and tone controls a lot, the lower output pickups are far more adaptable to rolling volume and tone back.

If you're a pedal stomper, you won't notice it as much...and you won't have need for low output pickups.

So...anyway...that's my take on it. For those that do, and don't, can you think of other reasons, and is this reason off the mark as far as slappin' a set of these into your guitar?

[mdubya]

All my heroes got their best tones with low output pickups. Low output pickups into old Marshall = win. Unbeatable IMHO.

[tazzboy]

because guys like Eddie Van Halen have a guitar amp crank up. So using a low wound pickups helps with that otherwise with high wound pickups turn into fuzz and crap.

[decoy205]

I like both low and high output pups. Different tools for different jobs.

[captcoolaid]

Sorry Sent I just do not by into that. I feel I have more options and control with my 14k wind than I do with any that I have tried with a say mid 8 or lower pickup. Further more the higher the out put does not equal Fuzz and Crap if they are designed right. Ask any of my customers and they will tell you the same thing. Clarity, control, and options.

[The_Sentry]

Originally Posted by captcoolaid

Sorry Sent I just do not by into that. I feel I have more options and control with my 14k wind than I do with any that I have tried with a say mid 8 or lower pickup. Further more the higher the out put does not equal Fuzz and Crap if they are designed right. Ask any of my customers and they will tell you the same thing. Clarity, control, and options.

Cap'n, I can't speak personally on your products (Maybe I can someday!) But I know this much...

All of the pickups I have tried.....especially the humbuckers...the hotter the pickup, and when crunch is applied...the volume doesn't do a gradual drop at all....you reduce crunch/distortion...but not volume until you're almost at the end of the taper. The lower output pickups actually seem to be more manageable as far as cleaning up your sound, and dropping volume at the same time.

I also can't personally speak for P-90's. The one P-90 guitar I have...the pickup was wound by a former colleague of yours for Roman...and it's hotter than sin...it's also very malleable...as single coils tend to be...

[Mookakian]

So...anyway...that's my take on it. For those that do, and don't, can you think of other reasons, and is this reason off the mark as far as slappin' a set of these into your guitar?

huh? Any way horses for courses, glad both are availabe

[cheetah77]

Because they work better with fuzz.

[SKATTERBRANE]

I am playing my high output Zomby pickups at this very moment. They clean up very nicely when I roll the volumes down. I discontinued them because no one was interested in them. So I know for a fact that high output pickups CAN be articulate. But I do prefer the PAF range pickups best.

[Ed hunter]

I used to use low output paf types exclusively so i could roll back the guitars volume and it would clean up nice,i prefer the aggression of a hot 13-17K wind BUT most of the ones i had tried sounde dgreat going full tilt but would not clean up when backed off that is until i discovered MHD pu's. Now these like i have said a hundred or more time(and i am sure everyone is sick of hearing it but it is the truth)these clean up as good as any lower output wind i have tried. so now because of that i can have may cake(aggression tones for the heavy stuff) and eat it too( great cleans when rolling back the volume on the guitar ala EVH

[Who]

Serious question from an inexperienced guy... If you don't turn the guitar and amp all the way up, does it really make a big difference?

[Mouse]

better control over dynamics, finesse/separation, singing voice. certain charm or should we say timbre...

[Zhangliqun]

14k's can be made very clean and clear, no problem. Much past that (assuming still 43 AWG) and they start to get dark pretty quick. This is my experience with my own winds, other winders' mileage may vary...

Now the question is where does high output begin spec-wise? My own thinking is:

1) DCR must be at least 13.5k with 43 AWG, 10.5k with 42.
2) Magnet must be ceramic, or A8, or A9. (You could also use A6 but it's kinda dark.)

The 14k's with A2/3/4/5 count only as high-mid in my book.

[snaredrum]

i'd class the JB as vaguely high output, and in my case - in a fender mustang, no less - it conforms to the prejudices that we undereducated masses associate with them.

it's not as "clear", it has brute force but not as much top end, blah blah. and yes, i'll put two dollars in the cliche box

[Leddyman]

Originally Posted by The_Sentry

So, a lot of the old-timers (even those old-timers at heart) tend to eschew the high output pickups for lower output. "Vintage" tones aside...why would someone want this?

Well, for me...it comes down to a question of control. If you use volume and tone controls a lot, the lower output pickups are far more adaptable to rolling volume and tone back.

If you're a pedal stomper, you won't notice it as much...and you won't have need for low output pickups.

So...anyway...that's my take on it. For those that do, and don't, can you think of other reasons, and is this reason off the mark as far as slappin' a set of these into your guitar?

I have a guitar with a locking tremolo and a higher output humbucker in the bridge for when I want to rock the distortion.
I have a different guitar (LP) for blues/crunchy southern rock with lower output PAF style pickups, still a third semi-hollow for reallly low output classic PAF tone (think Larry Carlton).

Horses for courses. They all have their place. It depends on what you are playing and who is your audience on any given night.

It just seems that there are a lot of us old farts that want to play @ 8.75k bridge, 7.5k neck PAF style humbuckers....And the old guys have the money for custom wound stuff. We aren't chasing women as much as when we were younger so we have disposable income.

It boils down to that indefinable thing called tone.


Now David quit arseing about on the interwebz and go wind my Pagey 2s.

[captcoolaid]

Originally Posted by Zhangliqun

14k's can be made very clean and clear, no problem. Much past that (assuming still 43 AWG) and they start to get dark pretty quick. This is my experience with my own winds, other winders' mileage may vary...

Now the question is where does high output begin spec-wise? My own thinking is:

1) DCR must be at least 13.5k with 43 AWG, 10.5k with 42.
2) Magnet must be ceramic, or A8, or A9. (You could also use A6 but it's kinda dark.)

The 14k's with A2/3/4/5 count only as high-mid in my book.

Dave my thinking is anything with an A8 in it gonna be high output. As far as Dc 42 9.5 is high output for my style and 14k for 43. that for me is where the A5 becomes hot.

[Wraptail]

Different strokes.

For me, because I almost never get along with high output pickups. I have more dynamic control using low out PUs + amp cranked up.

High output pickups I've used sound like a fire hydrant wide open, and I can see how a lots of people like that

[Ed hunter]

Originally Posted by Who

Serious question from an inexperienced guy... If you don't turn the guitar and amp all the way up, does it really make a big difference?

Sure it does, if you have a high volume on a amp like a MARSHALL it will break up more and even push the celestions to break up depending on their wattage. when a guitars volume is turned down(rolled off i call it) the tone changes drastically. it usually gets cleaner( depending on the wind of the pu) and if you dont use the right caps it will get darker/muddy in tone

[Greg's Guitars]

I found that the Humbuckers that I liked tonally just happened to have lower ohms, not that I was searching or trying to distinguish anything between higher output and lower output pickups, it's just what my ears liked....

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by the_sentry

So why would you want low output pickups?

I think the question here is WHY you would want high output p'ups?

Tell me why...

[cooljuk]

I tend to prefer lower output PUs. I guess in my case, it's that my amp has "gain" "mid" and "bass" knobs that I can turn up, but for for some reason it's lacking knobs for "clarity" "articulation" and "responsiveness" so I go to the pickup for that.

The humbucker set of mine that got the most attention at the Philly show was the Low Outputs. 7.25k bridge / 6.75 neck both over A2s. I sell other models more though, ironically. I think people have a per-concieved idea of low output PUs being unsuitable for high gain, heavy, or modern music. That changes once they play them, though.

[River]

A high-output (19.2k, ceramic magnet, wire I dunno) humbucker through an amp that really only distorts in the power section sounds damned good to me. With pedal or preamp distortion, I find it fussy - but it's not like it won't work. I just have to be careful or I'll melt my earlobes off.

[Mookakian]

^Thats actually a really good point River, when playing the 21k MHD's, Even the Asylums i pull the pre-amp vol and gain down a touch and ramp up the master, helps clear up the fudge and turn it to gold

Quite the opposite for the pagey 2's, a tad more pre-amp drive is needed.


As for pedals it depends on the unit, for example, the Zvex mastotron i dont like with low outputs, with the 21k ceramic its a beast. The fox tone machine...I have to pull back the guitar vol to get it to a usable state or its toooo wooly

[MrRhoads]

I prefer the so called low output pickups which you normally associate with low kOhms.
However i do wan´t my pickups to have a very clear sound, very high resonance peak so that i now that they´ll remain clear sounding throu alot and have alot of clarity.

The so called high output pickups which you normally associate with high kOhms tends to be very dark normally.

However the DiMarzio HS-3 is about 25kOhm but is very clean, clear and nice.
My Bill Lawrence pickups are very bright and has tremendous amounts of clarity and problably the highest resonance peak i´ve heard of and they still have alot more kOhm than the standard high ouput humbuckers.

[captcoolaid]

Why because i can go from Lamb of God to Zeppelin to some Commander Cody with a coil tap and a roll of the volume with my Tele. All with out loosing any clarity or pedals. Plug and play period. That why. I am not dissing folks that prefer the vintage thing or the whole lower DC just stating why I like to go with it. I also personally think that because higher DC/output pickups are given a bad rap because of the 80s and early 90s. There is a new breed of winders not just myself but others that are not limiting higher DC/output pickups to metal. Options is what I like and I have, I feel, more tonal options with a higher DC pickups.

[Mookakian]

Hehe I think its a "why low output" thread, there is a tonal quality in a low output bucker thats not in a hard driving monster. I Agree, you can get a wider range of drive from a high output bucker but some stuff it just wont do as well as a low output, its more the frequencies than the drive that determine what to use and A2 low wind has a different flavor than a Ceramic 18K, I mean the voice/EQ spread, power asside they are tonally different pups and react in different ways to picking and technique.

Now the same can be said for any two different pups, but lets wind the same pattern on 2 pups- 1 low resistance with an A2 and 1 high resistance with an A8. If you pull the vol back on the A8 pup to match the output of the A2 pup, they will still have different tonal qualities and what is best will depend on the players idea of good tone, not only that but the amp reacts differently to the two and so will picking dynamics.

They are just 2 totally different sounds, getting your head around whats best for the sound in your head is the battle but thats what techs/winders are for i guess, to put you on the right track to begin the trial and error.

[Luckynumber3]

Both low and high have their uses. Of course,I am guessing that it is generally easier to "add more" to a lower output pickup than "take away" or "tame" a high output pickup.

I find it funny though, as recently there was a demo in the historics section, and alot of people seemed to like the more modern slash alnico 2s than the more vintage sounding stock gibsons. I wonder if those people are the same people that complain about gibsons being non historically accurate (which would be ironic, because apparently they don't want them to be when it comes to sound )

[captcoolaid]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber3

Both low and high have their uses. Of course,I am guessing that it is generally easier to "add more" to a lower output pickup than "take away" or "tame" a high output pickup.)

This to me is the misconception I am talking about. There are a vast number of new winders that are conquering this. Where the norm was to use poly and 44 for higher stuff and doing crazy shite with ceramics we as hand winders are finding that the same can be done with 43 pe and an Alnico class magnets. I fear that to many have this idea stuck in there head and are un willing to try something on the "hotter \side" of things. Again does it affect my business nope there are more kids playing heavy stuff that want the high octane stuff than I can shake a stick at.

[JMV]

I find it allows me to play the amp more. I get to turn the amp up more and get those tubes to sizzle.

I like to let the amp do a little more work than hitting it really hard on the front end.

[Who]

Here's a question (i know nothing about this topic, but here goes....)

Coil taps will bypass one side of a humbucker. Is there any such thing as a humbucker with a wind bypass, that doesn't split the sides of the 'bucker?

For example, a tap somewhere mid wind, that would let you go from low to high ohms?

If it hasn't been done, I can't be the first person to ponder this. If I am the first person, and any of you go on to market this, put my name on it!