Review of Tonerider H-90 single coils (P-90 copy)

[Splattle101]

As requested in this thread:

The capacitor thread.

this is a review of the Tonerider H-90 pick ups I’ve stuck in my Les Paul Classic Antique.

What they are
They’re a P-90 knock off. The ‘H’ stands for hybrid, and refers to the AlNiCo II / AlNiCo V magnets they use. So they’re not ceramic. The conductors are braided. The bobbins are textured; I don’t know how else to describe it. Just normal soap bar P-90s. I dunno if they come with dog ears as an option. They cost me AU $115 for the pair.

Context, gear, style
I play blues and hard rock. I like to drive non-master-volume amps to a subtle, crunching overdrive, and then kick them into full saturation with a TS808. I use an MI Audio Crunch box into the TS808 for boosts and stupid amounts of gain. Most of the time the amp is a black face Fender Super Reverb. I use the volume and tone controls on my Les Pauls a lot. Noise is rarely an issue for me, given that I’m usually only using really high gain settings for soloing in a noisy, three-piece context. Noise? What noise?


What I put them in
* Epiphone Les Paul Special, made-in-Korea, double cutaway, early 1990s, set neck (not the bolt-on that seems to be normal now).
* Gibson Les Paul Classic Antique, April 2007.

What they’re like
I’ve had these pick ups about four or five months. I originally bought them to put in my Epiphone Les Paul Special. I made no other changes to the electronics.

I was very impressed. They bite like P-90s should, particularly the bridge. However, there’s a lot of meaty mid range in the tone, so they don’t sound thin. They maintained their detail as I turned the volume down, too.

I was pleasantly surprised when I got to compare my Epi to a 1995 Gibson Les Paul Special. The voicing of the pick ups was very similar and, if anything, the Toneriders maintained their character better than the Gibsons when the volume control was turned down.

A few weeks ago now, I took these pick ups out of my Epiphone and put them in my Les Paul Classic Antique. This was a GOW instrument from April 2007, and it came stock with Gibson H-90 pick ups. The Gibson H-90 is their attempt at a low-noise P-90. I tried to like them, but I just couldn’t get that guitar to come to life somehow. I finally gave up and decided to put the TRs in.

The electronic complement of that instrument now is: Tonerider H-90 pick ups, Alpha 500 k pots, stock switch, VitQ 0.015 uF cap for the neck and a Spraque / Hyrel 0.022 uF cap for the bridge (thanks Jonesy). I changed all the electronics before changing the pick ups, in an attempt to get the stock pick ups to sound good. In vain, as it turned out.

The effect of the pick up change was immediately pleasing. Looking at the bridge pick up first, the bite is present and it produces a nice ringing sort of crunch from the Super Reverb with the volume at about 4. A nice useable rhythm sound that warms up considerably as the tone control is rolled down to 7 or 8. It also cleans up with the volume down at 7 or 8. Very rich sounding with an almost Fender Telecaster twang when played close to the bridge. But fuller than my Tele. With the TS808 in, it fattens up nicely and gives the tubescreamer plenty of high mids to work with. With the volume at 10, the 808 switched on (OD: 11 o’clock, Tone: 9 o’clock, Level: 3 o’clock), and the amp at 4, the sound is quite saturated. There’s plenty of harmonic complexity there to produce full-sounding rock chords for AC/DC sounds, while maintaining that very sharp attack. Rolling off the volume reduces the gain without losing complexity or feel. In fact, backed off to 8 or nine but with the tone at 10, it produces really tight Malcolm Young tones (he plays cleaner than he sounds on first listen). One interesting thing about these pick ups is that they don’t get into that ‘dead’ feel until you get the volume below 2. Again, use of the tone control warms it up nicely.

Shoving the Crunch Box down the front end works very well (guitar --> Crunch Box --> TS808 --> amp). The gain goes through the roof, but is still coloured by the Tubescreamer. Nothing nasty happens (i.e., no horrible microphonic feedback and squealing), which is a good start. The tones are immediately useable, and vary usefully with the tone and volume controls. On my LP Standard I sometimes use this setting with the volume down on 5 at the guitar to get a really compressed medium gain sound. I’m not sure I’d do that with these pick ups. The noise could be an issue, but for a thumping rhythm it’d be ok. For soloing, it’s beautiful. It maintains the attack (to the extent you can with that much distortion!), and produces lots of low-order harmonics to produce nice, consonant feedback when I let a note go. I found this a really inspiring set up to play with. The guitar seemed to want to play itself, and tone was suggestive of anything from Pink Floyd through to Sex Pistols. For me, this is where P-90 guitars are pure rock’n’roll monsters.

Switching off the pedals and driving the amp harder (about 6 or 7) provides a bright overdrive with lots of bite but a tightly defined bottom end. The bridge pick up does not get muddy and waffly. Sensitivity to right hand dynamics is excellent, and again the volume and tone controls provide plenty of variation in the tonal palette. With a modicum of twiddling I got tones like the intro to It Ain’t Me, Whole Lotta Love and Rock n’ Roll, Highway to Hell, Nasty Dogs and Funky Kings and La Grange. More of the rock’n’roll monster. Love it.

With the TS808 on, it went out into the area of Robben Ford and the more modern ZZ Top tones very easily. I find the top end of the Super Reverb can be bit ‘hissy’ when it’s driven hard, and this was no exception. But the tone control tamed that easily and it delivered a really tight, punchy high-gain sound with the broad texture of the power section overdrive blending nicely with the finer grain of the pedal. The guitar was resonating nicely and the feedback was harmonic and eminently controllable. At that point I was really just playing and getting into it, not bothering about the niceties anymore. That was a first with this particular guitar.

When I got back to Earth and started tweaking again, I was particularly impressed by the way that – even with these amp and pedal settings – the tone cleaned up so nicely with the volume control. Now, this is largely a function of a good pedal and a good amp, but if the signal going in the front end is shit…As they say, you can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it glitter. No glitter required, here.

All in all, I was very impressed with the bridge pick up. The bridge of the Epi with its stock pick up was just about un-playable. The bridge of the Gibson with its stock Gibson H-90 was playable but flatter than a steam rolled cane toad. The Tonerider is simply in a different class. Best of all, it maintains its tone in both the low-gain (0-4) and high-gain (6 and up) operating regimes for my amp. In light of my experience with the Epi and this Gibson Classic, I would like to hear one of these Tonerider bridge pick ups in a Junior.

I’ll come back to the neck pick up later.

cheers,
Splat

[Splattle101]

Part two: the neck pick up

I like to play on the neck a lot. On all my guitars. I particularly like the sound of the neck pick up of my Tele. I am therefore predisposed to like the tone of the neck pick up of any guitar, but I particularly like the sound of a single coil. This H-90 is a good example of the species.

With the amp at 4 and tone and volume at 10 on the guitar, this pup is quite forward and bitey. Hard strumming is rewarded with a full-sounding but low-level overdrive. There’s plenty of bottom end there, and it drives the amp well. A note of caution: I generally run my combo amps hard, and I tame the bass so it doesn’t get woofy and loose. This pick up could get into that territory without any trouble. Through my old Laney AOR 100 Watt head and 4 x 12, it’s tight and punchy, and through my Super Reverb combo it’s great, too. However, I have a feeling it could get out of control if you don’t look after your EQ, so if you use combos and you don’t like the sound of your bass response, this pick up may cause you problems. But then again so will others. Anyway, it’s noted for your information though your mileage may vary.

The neck doesn’t feel as hot as the bridge, although neither of these pick ups is hot in any case. (I measured them at about 7.5 and 7.8 k. They are listed as 8.0 & 8.5 k. Mine might be a little low, or my multimeter may be a little off, or my measuring technique may be suspect. Don’t know.)

This is perfect for that ‘hollow’ tone, like Blue Jean Blues. It responds well to the tone control, mellowing nicely and taking the edge off the gain. It responds well to the volume as well, keeping its detail while the tone is up. With the tone rolled well down and the volume backed off, it produces a warm, mellow sound that still retains some definition. You could play the intro to Bring It On Home very easily like this.

With the Tubescreamer kicked in, it comes to life. The high-mid voicing of the TS808 suits this pick up well. With the volume up, the tone control provides tones from raucous to smooth, all the way down to that very ‘vocal’ sounding tone reminiscent of Clapton (i.e., the so-called ‘woman tone’). It does Dave Gilmour beautifully with the tone backed off only a little – just enough to tame any stray edges – and I spent some time mucking around with the first solo from Shine on You Crazy Diamond.

With the high gain settings – either turning the amp up or kicking in the Crunch Box – this pick up displayed the good harmonic qualities of the bridge unit. No microphonics or any of that nonsense. The feedback was musical and useable. The ‘woman tone’ was again easily obtainable and eminently useable. I must say, however, that I liked the sound of this pick up more when the amp was turned up high (6 or 7) and with the TS808 saturating the front end, than when I had the amp lower (4 or thereabouts) and the Crunch Box kicking the front of the TS808. The tone was more open and, to me anyway, more musical.

The middle position is very useable. I have mucked around with a number of variations, and found that anything that can be contemplated on a humbucker-equipped, 1950s-wired Les Paul can be done here. Blends work well. It should be noted that it doesn’t quack like a Tele: it sounds like a Les Paul. It might be different if wired up out of phase. Dunno. I particularly liked the sound of the bridge with vol down, tone right up mixed with a touch of neck to give a little more fullness. Add a bit of vibrato from the Super Reverb and pick it down near the bridge and it twangs and snaps in a most agreeable manner. Bo Diddley kinda thing.


To finalize this review, I would say that the pair of pick ups are well matched for volume and for voicing. They sound like good P-90s and – to my ear – sounded far better than Gibson’s current attempt at a low-noise P-90. They don’t measure very hot, but they do ‘feel’ hot. They deliver the classic P-90 bite and bark, but are also amenable to taming via the tone control. The quality of the workmanship is good: indeed, better than you have any right to expect for the price.

My overall impression is of a product that’s been manufactured to compete in the quality pick up market, even though it’s priced as a cheapie. Personally, I will be keeping these in this guitar.

cheers,
Splat

[goofballone]

Great review, and good work. I also went with a set of Tonerider Humbuckers ,the Rocksongs, and am really surprised at the tone and build quality, they use maple spacers which was very unexpected. I too will echo the bang for the buck analogy.

[Bloozcat]

Excellent review, Splattle!

I have been trying to find a comprehensive review on these P-90's for some time now, to no avail. Not only did you provide the usual details, but also many of the finer points not normally found in a forum review.

I currently have a set of Vintage Vibe Alnico P-90's in one guitar, a much cheaper set of ceramic P-90's in another (that sound far better than one might expect), and I was intrigued by the description of the Tonerider Hybrid P-90's. Especially so, since I'm quite pleased with TR Pure Vintage single coils I installed in one of my Strat clone builds.

Thanks for taking the time to post this, Splattle...

[cmckay]

i recently bought 2 new toneriders for my les paul standard. The PAF replica for the neck and the generator for the bridge, both zebra's! the warm rounded tone of the neck and the sharp bite of the brdge generator have given my les paul so many tonal options!! in terms of build quality, they are as good as any pickup at any price, personally some of the best pickups i have ever heard, way better than burstbuckers!!

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by cmckay

i recently bought 2 new toneriders for my les paul standard. The PAF replica for the neck and the generator for the bridge, both zebra's! the warm rounded tone of the neck and the sharp bite of the brdge generator have given my les paul so many tonal options!! in terms of build quality, they are as good as any pickup at any price, personally some of the best pickups i have ever heard, way better than burstbuckers!!

I did a similar thing on the strength of my experience with their P-90s. I bought a pair of their vintage humbuckers and put them in my Standard. The neck pickup was definitely an improvement over the SD 59 it replaced. As I think I've said elsewhere, I couldn't really pick much difference between the SD 59 bridge and the Tonerider vintage bridge.

I suppose the acid test is that the Toneriders are still in that guitar and the SDs are in their box in the cupboard. And there was nothing wrong with the SDs, either. I liked them. I simply decided to try the Toneriders because:
a.) of my excellent experience with their H-90 single coils;
b.) they come in 4 conductor, and I was considering some Page mods; and
c.) they were very inexpensive as experiments in guitar tone go.

cheers,
Splat

[Goldtop75]

I've used a lot of the ToneRider pups for my guitars. Their take on the classic PAF with Alnico 4s is my fav for the humbuckers. The Rocksongs aren't as nice as I'd thought, and the Generators are a bit to snappy for my liking. Those A4s are very much what I looked for in a low output humbucker.

For their single coils, they have 2 very very nice cets. The City Limits sets, which is very SRV, and the Surfari, which is rather 50s inspired.

Here's a clip I recorded with my EBMM Albert Lee with City Limits: SoundClick artist: Demioblue - page with MP3 music downloads

[gravmy0]

Great and thorough review.

[SCHEMATIC]

I can't understand why Tonerider has stopped making these H90 PUPS
I have read the reviews and so far have not found a bad review so maybe cost of production? suffice to say grab them while you can. I have a set coming from Italy as they are know getting scares to find I don't think there are many left out there.

[Splattle101]

Wow! I didn't know they'd stopped. Oh well.

Looks like they're going for a traditional sort of approach instead, with the old AlNiCo II trad P-90 and a 'hotter' AlNiCo V job.

Possible a marketing thing: they might've become sick of people thinking their H-90 was a humbucker or some abortion like the Gibson H-90.