My Last PAF (CLONE) "SHOOT-OUT"

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by jamman

Because i can not fix the ~ fatal problem with the voting .What I would ask everyone to do, is to post a list in desending order, 1 is the best ,17 not so much to your liking .

Yes, that does seem easier. Good call. It simplifies the process and brings us back to a single thread instead of two. Good call.

[bill m]

I thought this was just going to be a blind poll. You listen to all the clips and select the number you liked the best and thats it. One member one vote. The poll only allows for this. I thought the poll was going to just be numbered 1 through 17 and the members vote only once for their favorite set. If done this way the poll would tally.

[59gibson]

jamman,

Very well done That is some comparison and after listening to all 17 clips, I think my head is about to explode.
I say that in a good way. I made notes and now have to go back and listen to what I think were my favorites.
This could be a long process for me. For example, by the time I heard #8 do I really remember how it compared to say #1.

Thanks for your efforts, Just alot to digest.

[bill m]

Rod, you beat me to it.

[SKATTERBRANE]

Originally Posted by bill m

I thought this was just going to be a blind pole. You listen to all the clips and select the number you liked the best and thats it. One member one vote. The poll only alows for this. I thought the poll was going to just be numbered 1 through 17 and the members vote only once for their favorite set. If done this way the poll would tally.

Yep. That was also my initial understanding.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by 59gibson

jamman,

Very well done That is some comparison and after listening to all 17 clips, I think my head is about to explode.
I say that in a good way. I made notes and now have to go back and listen to what I think were my favorites.
This could be a long process for me. For example, by the time I heard #8 do I really remember how it compared to say #1.

Thanks for your efforts, Just alot to digest.

That's what I'm doing. I listened to all of them yesterday and took notes. I'm going to go back for a second listen, now that I've heard them all, and try to roughly rank them. So many good pickups, though!

I suspect, when this is all opened up with the results, I'm going to be buying some new pickups. There's a few I REALLY like.

[bill m]

Originally Posted by 59gibson

jamman,

Very well done That is some comparison and after listening to all 17 clips, I think my head is about to explode.
I say that in a good way. I made notes and now have to go back and listen to what I think were my favorites.
This could be a long process for me. For example, by the time I heard #8 do I really remember how it compared to say #1.

Thanks for your efforts, Just alot to digest.

I found it easier to listen to 3 clips at a time and write down my favorite, then listen to 3 more,choosing a favorite, and so on. Then I had it narrowed down to 6 clips. This made it easier for me.

[bill m]

I've been listening to all the clips again in more detail . Geeez, you guys make some freaking great sounding pickups. In my book every one is a winner!!!

[BrazenPicker]

It gets a bit clunky, but I wonder if in one post we could create links to three polls (each in a separate dummy thread), one where you choose your top choice, one where you choose your top 3, the other where you choose your top 5 (with no particular order). That would already say quite a bit in summary form. I'm not too sure if we'll have the sample size to get conclusive results, but at least you'd hope the patent numbers, OTPG and other "big" ones get picked more often.

What's your impression, by the way, Jamman, about how they sound to you in the room? Vast differences there? In the clips, when I listen for aliveness, dynamic range, sweetness of the treble, etc., I hear some difference, but nothing night and day. I could imagine that in the room there's some that really stick out though. If not someone's about the waste $1,500 on a set of OTPG pickups tonight.

[fuelie]

woohoo it's up.

I have to figure out if it's something on my end or not but Photobucket isn't playing the videos at the moment.

Something needs to be put in place for voting to make it easier for members imo...

[JCarno]

Originally Posted by fuelie

woohoo it's up.

I have to figure out if it's something on my end or not but Photobucket isn't playing the videos at the moment.

Something needs to be put in place for voting to make it easier for members imo...

Yea...... Even if it's just numbers 1-17.

[straightblues]

Great effort, thanks for the work. What surprises me is the minor differences between them. We all spend a lot of time and energy thinking, listening and buying products with very minor differences.

[captcoolaid]

All the pups sounded great. It was subtle nuances that separated them. None were bad but I liked number 15 counting backwards which would be number 3. Just a bit more honk in the bridge position. In my opinion I would be proud to own any of them.

[SKATTERBRANE]

Some are less minor that others. I find listening to the last section of each clip, featuring the middle position, very helpful.

[jamman]

Originally Posted by bill m

I thought this was just going to be a blind poll. You listen to all the clips and select the number you liked the best and thats it. One member one vote. The poll only allows for this. I thought the poll was going to just be numbered 1 through 17 and the members vote only once for their favorite set. If done this way the poll would tally.

And It still is a blind poll . I am the only 1 who knows what pickup is on what video for all 17. The problem was how I set up the poll from the get go. that's on me . I did a poor job of it. At this point, to get rid of all the confusion, I am going to ask Alex to remove the poll althogether , If possible. I'm not sure if that can be done .

Than each member who cares to, can post a list of the pickups he likes the most .It isn't written in stone that someone must vote for all 17 . That's up to the person themselfs. After next Saturday i will tally all the posts and than post the results . I think simple is better .

What I want everybody to know is that I can not change the wording of the poll . That is not available to me now . The only way to change the poll would to re-post the complete thread, Again . Yes i re-posted the entire thread with Alex's help last night . Imo , the important part of this thread are the videos.

I don't feel it's asking to much to post a short list . If anyone cares to post all 17 great , but if you only care to post 2-3 , that will be counted too. I would ask to vote using the #'s that I posted the videos with . and not Photobuckets #'s .
Thanks for your understanding with this .

[jamman]

Originally Posted by BrazenPicker

It gets a bit clunky, but I wonder if in one post we could create links to three polls (each in a separate dummy thread), one where you choose your top choice, one where you choose your top 3, the other where you choose your top 5 (with no particular order). That would already say quite a bit in summary form. I'm not too sure if we'll have the sample size to get conclusive results, but at least you'd hope the patent numbers, OTPG and other "big" ones get picked more often.

What's your impression, by the way, Jamman, about how they sound to you in the room? Vast differences there? In the clips, when I listen for aliveness, dynamic range, sweetness of the treble, etc., I hear some difference, but nothing night and day. I could imagine that in the room there's some that really stick out though. If not someone's about the waste $1,500 on a set of OTPG pickups tonight.

As to the first part of your post . I think it would get way to complex . I want to get this post back to simple and sraight forwad . It's really about the pickups and not as much about a vote. that's what I wanted as the # 1 point in the thread .

As to the differences between the pickups ...... If you listen though headphones , you get the best sound repro, imo . This is important to be able to do an evaluation . Because the videos were done with a camcorder it makes a big difference.
For the person who will get the OTPG pups on auction, compared to the pups in the video or a set of BB 1 & 2 ,yes you would hear a big differnece (compared to some here) . The OTPG are much better pickups than say BB's 1&2 . But sound and tone are subjective. What I like , you might not .
The sound you get from these videos is good . If you listen on your computers speakers , no you will not get the full sound repro that's on the videos .

As for my opinion as to the live sound . Depending on which pickups you compare, there are big differences between them . But some are made to be they way you hear them . The sound repro is a good represen. of what I got .
you also need to factor in the effect I have on the sound , that day ,for that take , and so forth..... No body plays exactly the same , everytime .
We all have an effect on the strings when we play a note , than consider the life of the string , and where in it's life span it was at the time of recording . I changed strings for almost every pickup change . So i got an equal and best sound .
Yes i liked some more than others and some for what they were. But here i will not be writing any opnions about that. I want to be fair and equal as best as i can to everyone as possible.

[59gibson]

jamman,

Please don't get me wrong. Though I think this a cool test and will try to pick my favorite; no one can judge these better than you.
This test is kind of one dimensional, where as you get to hear and also "feel" the note (s). That is a MUCH different perspective

[SKATTERBRANE]

What you really need to do is download them, burn them to a CD, and play them on a decent stereo. Or put them on a flash drive and plug them into a DAC that is part of your stereo system.

[mdubya]

I have no idea how we are supposed to use that poll to vote. No worries though.

I made a list as I listened. I will post it here. As several have mentioned, I would be pretty happy with any of these.

I scored each out of 10 and my marks ranged from 6.25 to 8. None sounded bad and none stood out so much from the others as to be off the charts. For me.

1. 7.5 notes: nice.
2. 6.5 notes: just a bit bland. That could actually be a good thing.
3. 7.0 notes: nice bite.
4. 7.5 notes: bright, interesting, a bit weaker sounding (not a bad thing).
5. 8.0 notes: edgy, but smooth. Sweet.
6. 6.5 notes: nice, but didn't leave much of an impression one way or another.
7. 7.0 notes: bite. Smooth neck.
8. 8.0 notes: depth/fat/sweet neck.
9. 7.5 notes: smooth, with character.
10. 7.0 notes: different. Sound nice, but too different.
11. 7.75* notes: nice bite, nice neck. * indicates might be my fave.
12. 7.0 notes: nice bite, but not better than anything else.
13. 8.0 notes: smooth with great character.
14. 7.0 notes: strong, but a bit pinched/reserved.
15. 6.25 notes: bite, but not punchy enough. Sweet neck.
16. 7.5 notes: nice sweet bridge. Smooth neck.
17. 7.5 notes: understated wow. nice subtle mids.

#17 might have been my favorite. But they sound very understated, in a good way, so I gave higher marks to others that might have caught my ear more, intitially. Same goes for #11.

#10 didn't sound bad to me. Just different.

As you can see, my scoring and my opinion are different. How is that for proof that this is subjective?

What do I look for/prefer in a pick up? Smooth and warm, with enough edge and bite to have character. I couldn't care less for chirpy middle position tones. I want a bridge that is warm but edgy with a nice attack and a neck that is sweet and singing with a bit of bite to it.



I would love to know the DCR and the magnet type for each.

JMHO for all of the above.

[RAG7890]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

That's what I'm doing. I listened to all of them yesterday and took notes. I'm going to go back for a second listen, now that I've heard them all, and try to roughly rank them. So many good pickups, though!

I suspect, when this is all opened up with the results, I'm going to be buying some new pickups. There's a few I REALLY like.

I am doing the same.

[fretboarder]

wow great thread jamman!!

loads to take in it's going to take me a few days to sypher thorugh all these clips.

one thing is for certain,all the winder's featured here in these clips stand shoulder to shoulder with each other.

just diffrent flavour rather than "better"

a few stand out to me as to what i prefere.

thank you so much for taking the time to do this for us mate.


p.s. think i might have voted by accident aswel lol.


well back to the clips

[bill m]

Hats off to jamman. He worked very hard and was so very generous to do this pickup shootout. I think he did a great job on the video clips to ensure they were all recorded exactly the same way, with the same guitar, same amp and settings. All the pickups are being heard on equal ground.

[missio]

First, I think it is interesting to see which pickups the guitarist seems to enjoy the most. Note the little flourishes given on pickups that he may feel some connection with (video 2, 8, 10, etc.)

Second, I am a newbie at hearing and describing PAF pickup tones. With that in mind, here are the highlights of listening to these clips:

(highest rated first):

Video #14
Video #8
Video #10
Video #2
Video #7
Video #4
Video #16
Video #5
Video #1
Video #9
Video #15

Thanks again for everyone who had a hand in this. A lot of hard work went in to producing this and getting it out. Fantastic job!

[bill m]

Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE

What you really need to do is download them, burn them to a CD, and play them on a decent stereo. Or put them on a flash drive and plug them into a DAC that is part of your stereo system.

Rod, How do you download them as I've been trying to figure that out? I would also prefer to convert to wave and burn to a disc.

[fuelie]

Originally Posted by bill m

Rod, How do you download them as I've been trying to figure that out? I would also prefer to convert to wave and burn to a disc.

Hey Bill.

If you go to the album main page that shows all the thumbnails you can download all of them at once.

On the left side of the screen in the "Share box" there is a link at the bottom that says "download album"

[geetarfreek82]

Okay, sheesh, that was a lot of listening!!!! lol I know everyone is rating this differently, but I can definitively say that three sets stood out to me: #8, #1 and #12, in that order. Number 8 to me has the best sounding neck pickup, and the bridge is cool too, especially when jamman plays a few notes down low. It has good clarity as well as a bit of heft to the notes, which is a winner in my book. Surprisingly i am not a huge fan of the middle, but the pickups alone more than make up for it.

Numbers 1 and 12 have a similar vibe and it's actually kinda hard for me to say which one i like more. the #1 set has a really nice attack, and they make me feel like I'm hearing what the natural sound of the guitar is as opposed to the pickups. The middle switch position was take it or leave it, but i really liked the pickups by themselves.

#12's bridge is actually my favorite bridge pickup... It has a killer initial bite when the notes are struck that is followed by a smoothness afterwards. Quite interesting. The neck is great sounding on the higher notes but the lower notes aren't as great. good middle sound.

I guess that's my vote, and i can't wait to find out what sets these are, especially since i own or have previously owned or played quite a few of these pickups!

[geetarfreek82]

Originally Posted by missio

First, I think it is interesting to see which pickups the guitarist seems to enjoy the most. Note the little flourishes given on pickups that he may feel some connection with (video 2, 8, 10, etc.)

I too meant to add that in my favorite, #8, jamman seemed to really be enjoying playing those pickups!

[TKOjams]

As far as I got, I liked #8 the best. Based on the neck pup.
Just too many to listen to them all, sorry

[jamman]

Originally Posted by 59gibson

jamman,

Please don't get me wrong. Though I think this a cool test and will try to pick my favorite; no one can judge these better than you.
This test is kind of one dimensional, where as you get to hear and also "feel" the note (s). That is a MUCH different perspective

Thanks for your input . The way i see it, It's all good. Yes it is what it is . But a big part of what I wanted to do, was to have as many different pickups (PAF clones) from as many different Winders as I cold get . In 1 place at 1 time.

This way, anyone can compare the pickups here and have a quick reference
video base in 1 place . It's for people to use in desiding if 1 type of pickup is more suited to their needs, compared to another. i have tried to give a at home real feel sound that anyone could get . Nothing but guitar, cable , Amp. & a Camcorder. Yes you are correct as to feeling the guitar and the notes you play. Nothing can subsitute that . But I think you get the Idea, and that's my point !

Originally Posted by mdubya

I have no idea how we are supposed to use that poll to vote. No worries though.

I made a list as I listened. I will post it here. As several have mentioned, I would be pretty happy with any of these.

I scored each out of 10 and my marks ranged from 6.25 to 8. None sounded bad and none stood out so much from the others as to be off the charts. For me.

1. 7.5 notes: nice.
2. 6.5 notes: just a bit bland. That could actually be a good thing.
3. 7.0 notes: nice bite.
4. 7.5 notes: bright, interesting, a bit weaker sounding (not a bad thing).
5. 8.0 notes: edgy, but smooth. Sweet.
6. 6.5 notes: nice, but didn't leave much of an impression one way or another.
7. 7.0 notes: bite. Smooth neck.
8. 8.0 notes: depth/fat/sweet neck.
9. 7.5 notes: smooth, with character.
10. 7.0 notes: different. Sound nice, but too different.
11. 7.75* notes: nice bite, nice neck. * indicates might be my fave.
12. 7.0 notes: nice bite, but not better than anything else.
13. 8.0 notes: smooth with great character.
14. 7.0 notes: strong, but a bit pinched/reserved.
15. 6.25 notes: bite, but not punchy enough. Sweet neck.
16. 7.5 notes: nice sweet bridge. Smooth neck.
17. 7.5 notes: understated wow. nice subtle mids.

#17 might have been my favorite. But they sound very understated, in a good way, so I gave higher marks to others that might have caught my ear more, intitially. Same goes for #11.

#10 didn't sound bad to me. Just different.

As you can see, my scoring and my opinion are different. How is that for proof that this is subjective?

What do I look for/prefer in a pick up? Smooth and warm, with enough edge and bite to have character. I couldn't care less for chirpy middle position tones. I want a bridge that is warm but edgy with a nice attack and a neck that is sweet and singing with a bit of bite to it.



I would love to know the DCR and the magnet type for each.

JMHO for all of the above.

This is about as good of a post as i could want . Don't worry about the Vote . I will add up your votes from this post , when I tally the count. Thanks.

I have all or almost all the Ohms reading for all the pickups, and I'll post what I have when I give the brake down of each video . as to the Magnet type I need to check to see what info i have . I'm sure I don't know all of them . I'll try and get what info i can .

Originally Posted by missio

First, I think it is interesting to see which pickups the guitarist seems to enjoy the most. Note the little flourishes given on pickups that he may feel some connection with (video 2, 8, 10, etc.)

Second, I am a newbie at hearing and describing PAF pickup tones. With that in mind, here are the highlights of listening to these clips:

(highest rated first):

Video #14
Video #8
Video #10
Video #2
Video #7
Video #4
Video #16
Video #5
Video #1
Video #9
Video #15

Thanks again for everyone who had a hand in this. A lot of hard work went in to producing this and getting it out. Fantastic job!

Welcome to the forum .Thanks for you post. Thanks for your kind words. You got it right , it's what you like the most . And your list is fine .

I will not be adding any of my own comments on any of the pickups here . I do not want to slant anyone's opinion 1 way or another . i will say that even though it was work , to put this all together. It was a labor of love .and i thank again all the Winders who sent pickups to me , so I could video them and post for everyone to see and hear . Without them the post would only be half as big as it is . they are key players in this also .

[Rigidarm]

Thank you for this great effort and especially all of the hard work that the winders put into their art.
My first choice by far:................ #8
My second and third:................. #13 and then #15.

(To make matters more complex I'd vote for a BRIDGE #8 and a NECK #13 but that is not the poll)