Why I won't be buying any Klein pickups anytime soon..

[mdubya]

Yeah, I can't really see getting too upset about customer service over a second hand pick up. JMHO.

[Zhangliqun]

Unless the wax is really thick, there's no reason that it should fill up that bobbin slug hole or even build up in the corners. The winder may use a thinner wax mix. Mine is pretty thin and runs out like water when I pull a pu out of the pot. Bottom line is that forensic analysis of what happened with the slug (when it was removed or was ever there to begin with) based on the wax in the photo will tell you absolutely nothing.

Maybe Klein should have sent the slug, certainly so if the OP was the original buyer. But maybe Klein got a big surge of people claiming missing parts lately that made him suspicious, and this latest one from someone who's not even the original owner might have gotten under his skin a little bit. This whole internet thing has made folks way too trigger-happy with the flamethrower. Let's drink some decaf everybody...

Originally Posted by Mpcoluv

The corners on the blade slot in the bobbin look pretty square.
I wonder if wax from potting would build up in the corners.

[rick13]

In most instances, don't you void your warranty by taking off the covers? I would have sent a replacement blade...but unless assembling pickups is your forte, it's another opportunity to "F" up something else while fixing a seperate problem. I would have sent it back to Klein at my expense and try to work out a reasonable deal to have it fixed as it should be. What else is wrong with the pickup that you don't know?
Rick

[SKATTERBRANE]

Especially on a mini. They are a bit trickier to assemble that a full sized HB. The cover and the tape is what holds it all together. No backing screws to anchor it all down!

[Dougie]

The dangers of working on a mini are more with taking one apart.

It's easy enough to cut off -most- of the solder with a dremel, -most- being the keyword here, don't try to dig in between the cover and the base, just get enough of it off where you can either cut what little is left with an xacto or simply press your thumbs against the edge of the cover and snap the remaining solder loose, then without pulling it all apart, heat the cover with a hair dryer until it loosens the wax enough so you can very gently work the bobbins out of the cover all as one unit. The wax potting is your friend! It holds the whole assembly together so you don't rip the lead wires out of the bobbin.

I guess some people ruin pickups pretty easily, I wouldn't consider myself in that crowd. I am not a winder but I have repaired and or modified my share of them in 35+ years of guitar repair. What's fun is soldering together 42ga wire under a microscope using a piece of a .046 string wrapped around the end of your 45w iron for a tip.

You guys are an elite group, but there are others of us that are fairly well versed in care and feeding of vintage pickups.

I don't think there's anything else wrong with the pickup, it reads 7.29k and the potted bobbins and magnet are still waxed together as one assembly. The vintage Gibson cover fit well enough over the metric bobbins, and there is enough slop in the threaded baseplate holes that the pole screws came on through the holes in the cover without issue. Only thing I had to do really was shorten the tabs that stick out past where the legs bend down on the baseplate so it would fit up into the cover. Gibson cover is slightly shorter than the metric baseplate. Very easy fix. Still waiting on some parts to fully dig in to the project guitar I bought the Klein for. Very tempted to try it as a mini, then swap in some Firebird magnets and a ferrous bottom plate but we will see how it does as a mini first.

[Zhangliqun]

Originally Posted by Dougie

You guys are an elite group, but there are others of us that are fairly well versed in care and feeding of vintage pickups.

You might be an even rarer group than us. It's hard to get that far into working with pickup guts and still resist the undertow into flat-out winding.

[rick13]

I think it's amazing what you actually find when you start pulling some of the pickups apart either for service, to change a magnet or to convert to 4 wire.
Things are not always as they seem.
Rick

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by rick13

I think it's amazing what you actually find when you start pulling some of the pickups apart either for service, to change a magnet or to convert to 4 wire.
Things are not always as they seem.
Rick

Pull one of mine apart, any time. IMO, assembly quality is unmatched.

IMO, a bar should have been sent, free of charge, without shipping costs.

[rick13]

Wolfe....I wasn't thinking about you. I wouldn't ship a bar, but I would offer to fix for free if the shipping was paid. No money changed hands with the pickup maker in this particular deal. The real issue is with the seller. Think of all of the things that can go wrong installing the bar. What's to say that the bobbin isn't warped from potting? Imagine trying to heat up the pickup to slide the bar in place. It's a disaster waiting to happen.You ever had a pickup sent to you with a broken winding when someone tried to change a magnet or damage from an overheated baseplate from changing covers?
This is one of those instances where you meet someone halfway, but you do the work to make sure that the pickup doesn't come back to you in the end anyways...or that you don't get trashed when the pickup sounds like crap because something wasn't done right.
Rick

[cap217]

I have a weird story about Klien pickups.

I had some questions about the RandB Custom Wind pickups he made. They are not on his site and the only way to get them is to buy an RandB custom guitar. I heard some demos on youtube and thought they sounded great but didnt want to buy a new guitar just to have the pickups.

Anyways, I email Klien direct and ask the specs and what he has that is close that I can buy today. He responded with:

Those pickups are horrible. Everyone who gets them asks for a new set. They are not vintage correct and have A4 magnents. No Fender pickup had A4 magnents.

Now that is very very very odd to me. The guy is slamming his own pickup. There is no way he is making a pickup and putting his name on it and then bashes it and hates the sound. Was very strange to hear someone talk about their own product in a negative way.

[Dougie]

Ok in all fairness, being that I started this thread to vent about lousy customer relations, can't call it customer service, since I got no service, I figure it deserves the follow up after I got it installed and played it for a while.

The guitar I put the Klein mini humbucker in was a Gibson Custom Shop Firebird I which got a makeover in the Allen Collins style, with a German made Hopf tremolo from the early 1960s, a chrome (in this case nickel) P-90 at the bridge, and a mini humbucker in an Epiphone ring for a neck pickup, set back about 1/2" from the end of the fingerboard. That's what Allen used in his main Firebird.

So far it's turned out to be a really cool project, and the Klein mini humbucker really shines, I will have to give it that. The reason I chose it was because it was wound with 42ga plain enamel wire to 7.3k, and it had an A5 magnet, I figured it would get a sweet vintage sound that wasn't thin and squeally like the 70s minis that came on Gibson guitars. Boy was I ever spot on! This thing has a real clear, deep, SRV-ish ringing bell like tone to it, and I have never heard a mini sound like this one. Maybe it's the scatter on the coils, maybe it's the carbon steel blade I had to make for it, maybe it's the 1961 vintage mini humbucker cover, who knows, maybe it's just a damn good sounding pickup all the way around.

Thinking about tearing into the hi-output ceramic Firebird pickup that came on the guitar originally, putting the Klein coils in it with some shortened A4 or maybe A2 magnets and a ferrous bottom for coupling and see how it sounds put into the Firebird pickup's nickel cover. I think I'd like less of that clear strong bottom, and a bit less overall volume, and some more grit. It's louder than the P-90 and I would like a better balance between the two. The P-90 needs a custom shim cut for it which I have one, this will raise the coils up closer to the strings. That is a Fralin noiseless P-90 under that nickel cover, it sounds awesome like it is but can't fully asses it until it's closer up under the strings. The cover is nickel plated German silver, it came from a fleabayer in Germany, perfect fit, perfect pole spacing, gotta love German precision engineering.

The black neck pickup ring gets a little lost on a black guitar, and the neck pickup might need to be lowered some so thinking the nickel Firebird pickup surround will give a nicer visual balance and let me lower the pickup some.





There is a forum thread which has more of the story here:

http://firebirdplayersforum.freeforu...ting-t240.html

[b-squared]

Originally Posted by rick13

I think it's amazing what you actually find when you start pulling some of the pickups apart either for service, to change a magnet or to convert to 4 wire.
Things are not always as they seem.
Rick

Referring to Slick Willie's products?

I still have at least half a dozen bad pickups on my shelf. Great paperweights.



BB

[Mcdonaldkd]

Originally Posted by diceman

I will speak as to MY dealings with Chris Klein, which were fantastic. 3 orders total. All Strat pups. First I tried one of his Mayer-ish middle pickups. Loved it. Then I ordered his S-8 (I think it was) set. Great pups. Next was his Strat P90. Also a great pickup. Talked to Chris on the phone each time. He was very pleasant to deal with.

I'd tend to give him the benefit of the doubt based on my personal experience. I still think he should make things right... even if it was a used pickup off of ebay.

Me too. I have had nothing but great dealings with Chris Klein. He has also gone way above and beyond normal service levels in helping me choose various pickups, even suggesting another winder that might be a better fit.

I tend to believe, on the limited information posted here, that the pickup was tampered with prior to the eBay purchase. If it were me, I might have just sent you the slug, but it is Klien's business and his not choosing to send the slug (for whatever the reason) does not make him a jerk, in my view.

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by Mcdonaldkd

I tend to believe, on the limited information posted here, that the pickup was tampered with prior to the eBay purchase. If it were me, I might have just sent you the slug, but it is Klien's business and his not choosing to send the slug (for whatever the reason) does not make him a jerk, in my view.

What limited information?

There are pics from the auction, I have email from the seller assuring he never tampered with the pickup, picture of the back and the untouched solder and wax, photo when the cover was removed, the entire story was told in it's completeness.

I never said the guy was a jerk, I offered him more than one opportunity to send a slug and he declined, I informed him I was going to post this to the forums, he still declined, so let the story come to light. I was as nice to him as I could possibly be, never accused him in any way, asked nicely for a slug, and told him I didn't feel like I should be responsible for paying him to repair something that he had obviously left a part out of. He could have given me the benefit of the doubt, which most here would agree they would have done the same thing, but he insisted there was no possible way it could have left his assembly place without that blade, that every pickup gets tested, etc. Tested with a meter won't tell you there is a piece missing. Nobody's perfect, sh*t happens, we all know this. It's just not good business to treat a potential new customer the way he did.

[rick13]

Never met a person who didn't make some sort of mistake. It's how you deal with them that counts.................
Rick

[rick13]

Originally Posted by b-squared

Referring to Slick Willie's products?

I still have at least half a dozen bad pickups on my shelf. Great paperweights.



BB

Uh....Winding Bobbins can be stressful, especially trying to get them shipped before Fedex comes to your door with a bum leg and all.
Rick

[captcoolaid]

Originally Posted by b-squared

Referring to Slick Willie's products?

I still have at least half a dozen bad pickups on my shelf. Great paperweights.



BB

Get em fixed.

[Ed hunter]

I dont wind pups but know the basics, can i ask how easy is it to forget something that important like a slug in the coil? is it possible to overlook it when putting on the cover top solder?

[Ed hunter]

this is just a opinion so take it for what its worth, but i stared at the pic of the cover and the top of the empty coil and really think there was a slug in there at some point before it was potted the shape of the retangle is too perfect like sonething was there to shape it,if the slug had not been in place the wax would have flowed in the hole and not left such a uniform rectangle...

[Ed hunter]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

I think if it were me, I'd offer the part, repair, and return shipping for free.
I might not want a user self-servicing my product and risking further damage or a bad sounding PU with my name on it so I'd just eat the whole bill. Seems like a very rare situation. Not like it's going to happen repeatedly. It's worth the small investment in time and cost to just make the guy happy.

I really like your business ethic!

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by Ed hunter

this is just a opinion so take it for what its worth, but i stared at the pic of the cover and the top of the empty coil and really think there was a slug in there at some point before it was potted the shape of the retangle is too perfect like sonething was there to shape it,if the slug had not been in place the wax would have flowed in the hole and not left such a uniform rectangle...

The top of the bobbin was pressed against the inside of the cover, that's what shaped the rectangle of wax, it pooled up in the open space in the center of the bobbin.

[Ed hunter]

Originally Posted by Dougie

The top of the bobbin was pressed against the inside of the cover, that's what shaped the rectangle of wax, it pooled up in the open space in the center of the bobbin.

Thanks then it is a def that klein forgot to install it when it was made, and i personally find that I am sorry but something like that is not easy to overlook,and i feel like a jerk saying that since i am not a winder but i do work on guitars and amps plus i have disassembled pu's and rewired the leads,swapped mags, changed poles,etc everything but wind one so i feel i know a little bit about pu's

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by LtKojak

You can't state somebody has a "stellar reputation" because you "read it somewhere". Hearsay is NOT fact.

BTW, the poster didn't even ask to have it fixed, only to get the "slug" (it's actually called "blade").



This is what a winder that's serious about his business and stand behind his products does. Plain and simple.

HTH,

I have to agree with Fredder though. the marks on the cover certainly suggest that the magnet was there at some point. Given that evidence and the fact that the OP was not the original buyer, I think Klein did way more than he had any obligation to do. That pickup had the magnet when it was built. The builders can;t be help responsible for the actions of every ebay conman

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

I have to agree with Fredder though. the marks on the cover certainly suggest that the magnet was there at some point. Given that evidence and the fact that the OP was not the original buyer, I think Klein did way more than he had any obligation to do. That pickup had the magnet when it was built. The builders can;t be help responsible for the actions of every ebay conman

First off, this is for the people that look at a photo, and judge others in haste and call names.. Let me say this again.. REAL SLOW..

The wax, in the cover, would NOT have pooled up in the center of the bobbin, IF there had been a slug there! Two substances CANNOT occupy the same physical space at the same time! If the slug would have been there, the shape of the bobbin would have been flat across the top, the slug being flush with the top of the bobbin would have made a flat impression in the wax. This photo is of a firebird coil I wound, same size and shape as the mini humbucker bobbin in the Klein pickup. Note the slug, how it fits flush with the bobbin. Although this view is from the bottom of the bobbin, the top is the exact same:



Secondly, for you to say it is a magnet that should go there, just shows you have obviously never taken apart a mini humbucker which leaves you even less qualified to pass judgement on someone who at least has taken apart ONE!

Boy that was some big con I tried to orchestrate huh? Get a FREE SLUG in the mail? Go find somebody elses sandbox to play in ok?

[b3john]

Dude, you're not the original buyer, you bought it second hand through god-knows-what channels and the guy doesn't owe you squat.

But you chose to make it your own personal campaign to smear the guy every way you can. IMO, you got better far than you deserved.

Your beef, if you ever had one, was with whatever fleabay seller you bought that from.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by Dougie

First off, this is for the people that look at a photo, and judge others in haste and call names.. Let me say this again.. REAL SLOW..

The wax, in the cover, would NOT have pooled up in the center of the bobbin, IF there had been a slug there! Two substances CANNOT occupy the same physical space at the same time! If the slug would have been there, the shape of the bobbin would have been flat across the top, the slug being flush with the top of the bobbin would have made a flat impression in the wax. This photo is of a firebird coil I wound, same size and shape as the mini humbucker bobbin in the Klein pickup. Note the slug, how it fits flush with the bobbin. Although this view is from the bottom of the bobbin, the top is the exact same:



Secondly, for you to say it is a magnet that should go there, just shows you have obviously never taken apart a mini humbucker which leaves you even less qualified to pass judgement on someone who at least has taken apart ONE!

Boy that was some big con I tried to orchestrate huh? Get a FREE SLUG in the mail? Go find somebody elses sandbox to play in ok?

What I know of pickups is irrelevant. What you know of pickups is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you are not the original owner. What is relevant is you cannot know or prove what it had or did not have when it left Klein's shop or who may have doctored it up, repotted it etc between mfg and its arrival in your possession. Klein had no reason to offer you anything and frankly you had a lot balls to even ask for anything free. Then to come here and try to smear his name because of it is about as lame as it gets.

You can try to divert attention from the real issue by trying to insult me all you want but at the end of the day you tried to get something for nothing and now your mad because he told you to piss off.

[Dougie]

I'm not angry at Klein at all so don't go putting words in my mouth. YOU sir, can go piss off.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by Dougie

Ok in all fairness, being that I started this thread to vent about lousy customer relations, can't call it customer service, since I got no service

you sure come off as pissed everywhere here.
I would like to buy mr klein a beer just for treating you this way.
this thread could have been made with no mention of the brand whatsoever.
names in pics can be blurred in photoshop.

[LPJR]

I can't believe the Moderators haven't intervened?

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by b3john

...you're not the original buyer, you bought it second hand through god-knows-what channels ...
Your beef, ..., was with whatever fleabay seller you bought that from.

I have to agree with this....in most winders' warranty and return policies, including mine, it states that a warranty applies to the original purchaser of the item. There is all kinds of crap that can go on once the pickups leave the maker's possession.

It's generally up to the descretion of the winder to handle the matter in a particular way if their product was purchased second hand.