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Unread 12-03-2011, 07:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

The other day I was sitting there and thinking "Man, I wish I had another guitar with a humbucker so I could use alternate tunings."

Well, I looked at my strat, and realized that it is just decaying, doing nothing at all (a few of the pickguard screws are rusted, looks like the saddles have got pretty messed up, etc.). Now, I am getting evil ideas.

Anyways, how do the mini, strat sized humbuckers sound in comparison to their normal versions? (Like strat sized jb vs normal jb). Since they take up space under the strings, would they sound different in the guitar?

I figured that I would maybe install a mini jb or something else for higher gain sounds, so I could either use my tremolo on my strat for rock or tune it down to play stuff like this:



Or, I could take the bb3 from my les paul (after I get other pickups) and re-route my strat for it...

This is all just an idea at the moment, since I do want to buy another amp before I did this (although it would only be one pickup, so it would be cheap).
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Unread 12-03-2011, 07:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

I like the full size, but that is just me. No real difference I guess as they are built to emulate a full size bucker.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 07:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Originally Posted by captcoolaid View Post
I like the full size, but that is just me. No real difference I guess as they are built to emulate a full size bucker.
I thought so, but wasn't sure if that extra space it takes up under the string makes any difference, or if it sounds different since they shrink the entire pickup down.

I like full sized humbuckers too, and that would open up a variety of choices (such as my free burstbucker- only would have to install it and get a push-pull pot), but I would have to reroute my s-s-s strat, and that is non reversable, so im not too sure about doing that...
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Unread 12-03-2011, 07:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Originally Posted by Luckynumber3 View Post
I thought so, but wasn't sure if that extra space it takes up under the string makes any difference, or if it sounds different since they shrink the entire pickup down.

I like full sized humbuckers too, and that would open up a variety of choices (such as my free burstbucker- only would have to install it and get a push-pull pot), but I would have to reroute my s-s-s strat, and that is non reversable, so im not too sure about doing that...
Did you take the pickguard off and look at the cavity?

I have had few guys with original SSS Strats that had the universal cavity. They switched over to a SSH set up with a simple pickguard change.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 08:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Did you take the pickguard off and look at the cavity?

I have had few guys with original SSS Strats that had the universal cavity. They switched over to a SSH set up with a simple pickguard change.
Yeah, I took it off a few years back to check, and it is routed as s-s-s (its a mim 50s reissue strat).

And looking at the seymour duncan site where you can compare pickups, the jb and mini jb have the same resistance, but different magnet, and a different eq rating (T: / M:6 / B:4 for for jb jr., T: / M:6 / B:5 for jb). The jb junior says "JB humbucker in a single coil size," but they seem pretty different- maybe designed to give you the same sound as another guitar would with a jb?
JB Model | Seymour Duncan


I have to go look at dimarzio and compare theirs, like their super distortion and super distortion s (strat) to see if they have any differences.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 09:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

They are most likely wound with 44 wire to produce the same tonal affect as it's larger cousin. I have seen it in other pups. If you try and apply the same wind to a mini or in this case a single sized HB you will end up with a different beast all together. You can not get the same DCR so they use a thinner wire also using a different mag vs different wire will produce the same tone. Confused yet.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 09:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

I had a SD Hotrail installed years ago. Sounded pretty good. Or, try a stacked humbucker.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 09:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

Years ago I had a Samick Strat copy that I had a Seymour Duncan Hot Rails put in to. I commented to the guy who installed it that it sounded like the guitar in the Beastie Boys' "No Sleep 'Til Brooklyn"...

So in other words, if you want a ballsier Strat, that's a good way to go.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 10:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

I like the Fast Trakk II
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Unread 12-03-2011, 11:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Originally Posted by captcoolaid View Post
Confused yet.
Yeah, because the eq rating on there was different too between the normal size and strat one, which would suggest that it sounds different, or at least has a different attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblue View Post
I had a SD Hotrail installed years ago. Sounded pretty good. Or, try a stacked humbucker.
Yeah, I was looking in that direction maybe. In general, Id probably use the strat for c standard tuning (queens of the stone age stuff, or some other really heavy music) and if I got tired of that, use it and the tremolo for some higher gain stuff.

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Originally Posted by CivoLee View Post
Years ago I had a Samick Strat copy that I had a Seymour Duncan Hot Rails put in to. I commented to the guy who installed it that it sounded like the guitar in the Beastie Boys' "No Sleep 'Til Brooklyn"...

So in other words, if you want a ballsier Strat, that's a good way to go.
I will check out that song, been awhile since I heard it. Sounds like people like those Duncans.

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I like the Fast Trakk II
How is it? (other than you liking it?) I noticed that the Dimarzios are cheaper, so that would be a benefit.
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Unread 12-03-2011, 11:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

I have a stacked HB from Seymour Duncan. It is a full sized coil with the cancelling coil underneath - instead of two mini coils side by side. It sounds exactly right.

I have it listed in the members classified section so if you are leaning that way I would like to sell it to you
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Unread 12-04-2011, 12:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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I have a stacked HB from Seymour Duncan. It is a full sized coil with the cancelling coil underneath - instead of two mini coils side by side. It sounds exactly right.

I have it listed in the members classified section so if you are leaning that way I would like to sell it to you
Is it stacked like "Hot humbucker" stacked or just noisless single coil? I'm looking more at the "hot humbucker" direction so my strat can play something heavy (like wayy lower tunings- I don't wnat to buy another guitar, and my start kinda sits there as it is, so might s well make the best of what I have).

And im kinda not sure about doing online trades/sales/buying stuff, since my trad pro, which was supposed to be new, came from GC without the stock gibson neck pickups- I guess if I can't even trust a big store that I visit in person, then I am also nervous about buying from any person online who I don't personally know, even if they have great reviews.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 12:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

Modify it for a humbucker. In the end you will be happier with drop tuning. It's a MIM strat not a 1957 Strat.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 12:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Modify it for a humbucker. In the end you will be happier with drop tuning. It's a MIM strat not a 1957 Strat.
You mean route it? I know its not a 1957 strat, but its my Mim strat. (and it was my first real guitar too!).

My tunings would be c-standard or another variation of standard more than drop tuning- I can't just tune like that on my les paul, because It requires thicker guage strings (they turn to spaghetti) and possibly having my guitar get re-setup.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 01:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Originally Posted by Luckynumber3 View Post
You mean route it? I know its not a 1957 strat, but its my Mim strat. (and it was my first real guitar too!).

My tunings would be c-standard or another variation of standard more than drop tuning- I can't just tune like that on my les paul, because It requires thicker guage strings (they turn to spaghetti) and possibly having my guitar get re-setup.
Give the Hot Rails a try. There aren't too many pickups out there hotter than a Hot Rail, regardless of coil size. It'll stay bright, tight, and heavy, which will work good for you if you are gonna do drop tunings with it.

Best of all you won't have to route for it.

Easy-peezy.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 02:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

+1 about "rails" PU's (I'd even say: be cautious with mini HB's including mini screws, they are sometimes hard to mount properly under the strings).

One of my axes (Tele style) has Duncan Hotrails and Coolrails in bridge and neck pos.
The Coolrails has something of a P90 / warm HB tone in regular HB mode and offers a pretty good emulation of regular SC sound once wired in parallel. The hotrails has its own personality in HB mode and is a little convincing in parallel, but is still pretty useable. This pair of PU's makes this axe the most versatile among my ten guitars.

Regarding stacked HB's designed to emulate SC's and hot SC's, I swear by Kinman PU's. I have them in 3 of my axes with special custom electronics and I'm really happy with them (knowing that I've tried too "rails" PU's and other stacked designs by other brands, including DiMarzio Area's).

And to answer to the OP: the sound of narrow HB's is not exactly the same because of their narrower magnetic windows. I bet you guessed it. :-)
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Unread 12-04-2011, 07:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckynumber3 View Post
Is it stacked like "Hot humbucker" stacked or just noisless single coil? I'm looking more at the "hot humbucker" direction so my strat can play something heavy (like wayy lower tunings- I don't wnat to buy another guitar, and my start kinda sits there as it is, so might s well make the best of what I have).

And im kinda not sure about doing online trades/sales/buying stuff, since my trad pro, which was supposed to be new, came from GC without the stock gibson neck pickups- I guess if I can't even trust a big store that I visit in person, then I am also nervous about buying from any person online who I don't personally know, even if they have great reviews.
It is like the Hot Humbucker. Here is a pic with the cover off so you can see the coils:


Here is a pic of it installed in my Strat:


I understand the reluctance to buy online, but if you can overcome that, you could have the perfect pickup for $40...... I only have 2 reviews as most of the time I give stuff away on the free pay it forward thread.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 07:47 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckynumber3 View Post
You mean route it? I know its not a 1957 strat, but its my Mim strat. (and it was my first real guitar too!).

My tunings would be c-standard or another variation of standard more than drop tuning- I can't just tune like that on my les paul, because It requires thicker guage strings (they turn to spaghetti) and possibly having my guitar get re-setup.
I agree with Fueli( Kevin ) here. But I am a bucker guy
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Unread 12-04-2011, 07:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

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Originally Posted by randelli View Post
It is like the Hot Humbucker. Here is a pic with the cover off so you can see the coils:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/IMAG0403.jpg

Here is a pic of it installed in my Strat:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...tos/Strat2.jpg

I understand the reluctance to buy online, but if you can overcome that, you could have the perfect pickup for $40...... I only have 2 reviews as most of the time I give stuff away on the free pay it forward thread.
Love that guitar Randelli.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

HB in SC or fullsize ?

I do run a tone zone s in my strat, and it sounds good, yea. Miles away from SC when overdriven. But then i go for my LP with captain coolaid pickups, and, yea, its miles apart. It sounds good with a small dude in there, but for a full HB sound, yepp, u will need a full HB in there. Its up to you how mutch its worth moneywise and timewise.

Adding a clip with a strat running TZ s in it, as said, it sounds good, but aint the full 9 yards.

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Unread 12-04-2011, 02:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain tightpants View Post
Give the Hot Rails a try. There aren't too many pickups out there hotter than a Hot Rail, regardless of coil size. It'll stay bright, tight, and heavy, which will work good for you if you are gonna do drop tunings with it.

Best of all you won't have to route for it.

Easy-peezy.
See below- should I go for it then or would the fullsize humbucker be that big of a difference? (Would I absolutely prefer it for what I play, as noted below?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freefrog View Post
And to answer to the OP: the sound of narrow HB's is not exactly the same because of their narrower magnetic windows. I bet you guessed it. :-)
Darn, was hoping that it wouldn't sound different, but that is kinda cool that it is different I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captcoolaid View Post
I agree with Fueli( Kevin ) here. But I am a bucker guy
If I did do the mod, my drop tunings are most likely going to just be c-standard for queens of the stone age stuff, which isn't really
"chugga chugga crunch" as much as it is "deep, thick, stoner rock" tones (lol, always laugh at stoner rock.). Josh Homme (their guitarist) originally used an ovation ultra gp, which supposedly had dimarzio super 2s in it, but now he plays custom guitar with custom pickups. I'm not sure if he still does it, but he might have played his tele in the same c standard tuning for Them Crooked Vultures stuff if he did. I will have to try getting some heavy gauge strings and try to use the tuning before I ever decid eto mod though (I tried it once on my lp and it was sweet, but the strings were like spaghetti without the heavy strings on a re-setup).

It really sucks though then, because I would have to do a irreversable mod to my strat and the humbucker would look uglier than having a rail pickup in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebGringo View Post
HB in SC or fullsize ?

I do run a tone zone s in my strat, and it sounds good, yea. Miles away from SC when overdriven. But then i go for my LP with captain coolaid pickups, and, yea, its miles apart. It sounds good with a small dude in there, but for a full HB sound, yepp, u will need a full HB in there. Its up to you how mutch its worth moneywise and timewise.

Adding a clip with a strat running TZ s in it, as said, it sounds good, but aint the full 9 yards.

Fender Hot Rod 57 Stratocaster - YouTube
That does sound good, but it does some smaller. I do know that my strat, when compared to my lp, sounds alot smaller though. I mean, I can play it acoustically, then do the same with my lp and my lp sounds huge and fat, and maybe on the muddy side.

And that timewise and moneywise part is one of the things I would have to decide, since it is only a idea now (as I want another guitar for alternate tones, but my strat is just taking up space mostly as it is, so it is the perfect candidate for a mod). If I just bought a tone zone s or something like that and installed it myself (that pickup in that demo sounds good), it would be pretty cheap, but if I chose to do it right and add a push/ pull pot (so I could still have a single coil bridge sound ), and add some shielding (I don't think it has any, as it picks up major static, and I don't remember seeing any under the pickguard), it could get expensive

And that brings up a question- could I route it and have my bb3 work fine, or does the pole spacing doom it? (I know evh seems to have routed his crooked, and I don't know if that was for pole spacing or just because).

And I will think about it randelli- thats a pretty good deal.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Strat sized humbuckers vs. Full sized humbuckers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckynumber3 View Post
You mean route it? I know its not a 1957 strat, but its my Mim strat. (and it was my first real guitar too!).

My tunings would be c-standard or another variation of standard more than drop tuning- I can't just tune like that on my les paul, because It requires thicker guage strings (they turn to spaghetti) and possibly having my guitar get re-setup.

It may be your first guitar but you want something different. Putting a humbucker in it meets your goal. At that point it's all about applying a chosen method to meet said goal.

If you want something thick you will need a humbucker. You are already fighting the tone of a Strat. A stacked humbucker will be brighter and it has to be pretty hot to do what you want it to.

In the end it's your choice, I just look at the problem and form an opinion based on what will resolve it. Plus, I've been modyfing stuff most of my life so, it's not that big of a deal to me.
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