BEST ?? PAF clone ????

[vortexx]

I think all the great pickup winders should have some kind of identifying mark on them even if it's almost hidden or minuscule. People who try each winder's pickups will know down the road who made it and it's good business practice to advertise. You would be getting more business from stores etc who won't consider your pickups just another unidentifiable paf clone.

[homenote]

[QUOTE=Liam;1107377]I've been quite interested by the bobbin colour arguments. It might not just be the wire. I think it was Tom Holmes that said durometer (hardness) test values for white and black ABS bobbins were different. It's possible he meant CAB, or that it's a typo, and it doesn't mean much, but it did get me thinking.

The resonance of a solid object in terms of material properties, depends not on it's hardness, but on its elastic modulus and its density. Black CAB and white CAB will have different dye, and possibly different filler materials. It is fairly likely that the mechanical properties are affected by the same differences as achieve different colours. And of course if there are differences, and you have two different colours, you've got two different sets of resonances.

Elastic modulus is a bit of a pain to measure accurately (it's actually done by measuring resonant frequrency in general), but this has definitely got me thinking.


So is it safe to say that black bobbins are darker and whites sound more creamy or bright?

[homenote]

All I know is after trying every winder under the sun WBs, Tims, Bareknls, 57s, Duncans pro 2s Wolfs, Dr Vs and then some, Only Skatterbranes give me what i need for my Les Paul. Maybe it's just me I don't know. They are all very good pups but for my taste(Blues and Blues Rock) the skatts just nail it each and every time!

[Liam]

Originally Posted by homenote

So is it safe to say that black bobbins are darker and whites sound more creamy or bright?

It's not actually safe to say very much about pickups...

[Jakeislove]

Is there a best?!

There are definitely reference sounds we hear and think "That's what a f****** PAF should sound like, baby!!" but is there only one? There were likely tons of albums made with PAFs but we really only talk about a small number of them.

[homenote]

Originally Posted by Liam

It's not actually safe to say very much about pickups...

Yea I noticed you said alot with out actually saying anything.

Well done

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by homenote

So is it safe to say that black bobbins are darker and whites sound more creamy or bright?

To a statement like this, that's all I have to say is this:



HTH,

[FLICKOFLASH]

WB Custom Pickups BB Customs in the HillBillyBurst ( Thru a Fender Champ 600 )

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

[Splattle101]

That's really cool, Flick. But do you think you could perhaps provide us with some clips of this guitar that are recorded in a noisier environment? And perhaps use something a little more lo-fi. Like a stylus in wax, for example?

[homenote]

Originally Posted by Dave Stephens

while it is true there was alot of variance in Gibson's PAFs, there WERE constants enough that if you vary too far away from those you won't get an authentic in the ballpark tone. A good example of this is the "PAFs" made by guys you never heard of on Ebay who are basically winding up some StewMac kits. The parts in those things are so far off the mark, calling them a PAF is kind of a joke really.

If you watch the video I made, those parts are pretty darn close to the real deal, yet with a slight variant in the wind and sllght variant in the magnet wire you get a true PAF tone but as you said a different "flavor." I really strive to make mine as authentic as possible and I know Spence does too (Nugget). Despite the fact there isn't really one classic PAF identifiable tone, there IS a trademark tonal thing going on so much that when I listen to the radio and some old tune comes on, if it was recorded with a PAF bearing LP I can hear it right away. A couple months ago I was listening to the jazz station and Herbie Hancock tune came on I'd never heard before and some guy on a guitar let

it
rip, it grabbed me right away and I knew what I was hearing. Turns out it was Duane Allman, those pickups are one of the better sets I've heard. I know some winders who claim PAF heritage for some of their sets but
are using 43 guage wire, there were probably some wound with skinny side 42 but 43 was NEVER spec'd for



those pickups, so calling those a PAF is out of whack to me. Anyway, I'll soon have a new video with a studio
musician playing both these sets, my own amp setup is probably too basic for most players to relate to, to me a guitar and an amp is all I want to hear, no master volume, no pedals, just crank the amp and go :-
)

So the pickups Duane had on his Les Paul were some of the better ones? How can u hear pickups? If it were let's say Robert Plant hitting the highs, mids and lows in some tune on the radio and it really moved you, you would conclude that the Michrophone he was using was one of the good ones made from that company? Your statement just made me rethink the entire paf/paf clone pup debate.

[homenote]

Shouldn't a "good " pup just help send the sound of the guitar to the amp? Well I guess all u guys can't be wrong and I certainly don't want to offend anyone but I really think tone has to come from the things that the pickups are "picking up." vibrations. They dont vibrate. Do they? So if sound is vibrations and the don't vibrate then how can they make any sound? Lol I could see the wood, strings and the way we touch the stirngs make sound(vibrations) but pups? Maybe I need sleep or another cork

[homenote]

As far as different flavors. That means that they are some how altering the sound that the guitar is making? Ok now I know I need sleep. I personally feel that I would want my ideal pup to do nothing but help amplify the natural sound of my guitar and the way I'm playing it. I wana hear that old growth wood and good old USA eastern maple, with allitle sprinkle of Brazilian rosewood .. Yea that's what's it's all about man. Atleast for me anyway.

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

That's really cool, Flick. But do you think you could perhaps provide us with some clips of this guitar that are recorded in a noisier environment? And perhaps use something a little more lo-fi. Like a stylus in wax, for example?

You my friend are an even bigger tosser than I, which is truly saying something

I dub thee Splattle, King of all Tossers

[BrianGT]

[QUOTE]WB Custom Pickups BB Customs in the HillBillyBurst ( Thru a Fender Champ 600 )


I'm not being funny but that clip was awful!

So noisy and toneless....why would anybody demo a pickup under those conditions? Or is it just a clip of someone playing and they happened to be WB pickups in the guitar?

I am sure they sound superb under normal conditions.............

[FLICKOFLASH]

[quote=BrianGT;2037198]

WB Custom Pickups BB Customs in the HillBillyBurst ( Thru a Fender Champ 600 )


I'm not being funny but that clip was awful!

So noisy and toneless....why would anybody demo a pickup under those conditions? Or is it just a clip of someone playing and they happened to be WB pickups in the guitar?

I am sure they sound superb under normal conditions.............

Sorry I am tone deaf

[BrianGT]

[quote=FLICKOFLASH;2037346]

Originally Posted by BrianGT

Sorry I am tone deaf

I doubt you are tone deaf......it just isn't musical and doesn't do anything for the pickups..........that's just in my opinion.

[FLICKOFLASH]

[quote=BrianGT;2037369]

Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH

I doubt you are tone deaf......it just isn't musical and doesn't do anything for the pickups..........that's just in my opinion.

It was for entertainment purposes

[BrianGT]

[quote=FLICKOFLASH;2037382]

Originally Posted by BrianGT

It was for entertainment purposes

Oh...I see. .............I think.

[FLICKOFLASH]

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

[Liam]

Originally Posted by homenote

Shouldn't a "good " pup just help send the sound of the guitar to the amp?

No. And Hi-Fi amps are crap guitar amps for the same reason. A stone started rolling in the early 50s and it's not about to stop.

Liam

[River]

Originally Posted by Liam

No. And Hi-Fi amps are crap guitar amps for the same reason. A stone started rolling in the early 50s and it's not about to stop.

Liam

That's a perfect segue into that Smithsonian episode "Electrified". That's the theme of the documentary.

[Tone Seeker]

Originally Posted by homenote

Shouldn't a "good " pup just help send the sound of the guitar to the amp?

Have you ever tried recording the acoustic sound of your electric guitar (i.e. not plugged in) with a good mic? If not, you will find that it sounds very different than the sound the same guitar makes using its pickup. The mic is capturing the acoustic sound waves produced by the guitar's vibration. The pickup is capturing the interaction of metal strings with a magnetic field.

Here's a pretty good article on how a guitar pickup works. . . .

Atlantic Quality Design, Inc., How do guitar pickups work?

. . . and some selected highlights from it. . . .

The basic science behind pickup function is Faraday's Law of Induction. It states that a changing magnetic field causes an electric field to be set up in a nearby wire, causing a current to flow if the wire is part of a closed circuit (a loop of wire for example).

Since Faraday's Law tells us we need a changing magnetic field to make an electric current, how does the magnetic field from the static permanent magnets change? That's where the string comes into play.

See, the string is made of nickel and steel (iron+carbon), materials that are ferromagnetic. That is, a magnet attracts guitar strings. When this ferromagnetic metal vibrates in the magnetic field of the pickup, that disturbs the red field lines which also cross through the coil (not shown). That changing magnetic field makes a current flow that tracks the vibration of the string, and we have a working pickup!

Terry.

[PINKBITS]

[quote=FLICKOFLASH;2037382]

Originally Posted by BrianGT

It was for entertainment purposes

I think it may have failed in that area as well Flick

[FLICKOFLASH]

[quote=PINKBITS;2038749]

Originally Posted by FLICKOFLASH

I think it is may have failed in that area as well Flick

I think it very good tone , Playing & entertaining but what would I know Also off the cuff to boot

[vortexx]

Originally Posted by Liam

No. And Hi-Fi amps are crap guitar amps for the same reason. A stone started rolling in the early 50s and it's not about to stop.

Liam

My first guitar amp was a "Quadraphonic" Hi-Fi amp. Needless to say the main sound out of the guitar was feedback coming from all corners of the room.

[Jakeislove]

Originally Posted by BrianGT

It was for entertainment purposes

Then you succeeded!!

Looked like he was having a ******* blast!!

[rykus]

wow, this was a very long and insightfull thread.... i love that it went from a guitarist asking for advise to a technical debate between pick up makers. very insightfull.... not only about pickups and their construction aspects but also about the makers and their main focuses on achiving tone.as well as their personalities and quirks...... and so far i'm inclined to buy stephans design and have it rewound by shed pu , just joking but? i own a couple PAF's aswell as a pre ttop with the white/black leads but a large magnet?? ,and ttop's and some seymore antiquities and well all are very different and enjoyable. i look forward very much to trying some different paf style pickups from the various creators on this board, we should all support their quest and be thankfull of thier stubborn and insistant drive that lets us all reap the benifits of their madness, er reaserch. as soon as i can make through a couple months without finding some vintage something i can't live without i want to get a ri les paul and try a couple sets out but so far i keep finding those "scores" and never quite getting the burst... ah well, and thanks again everyone for the great read, i have the utmost respect for all the passion and time all these winders seam to show and can't wait to see how the stack up for me! ps i think duane played a gold top 57 in those studio days and kept the pu's when he got his first burst... can't recall exactlly but... cheers doug

[Lowdown]

Whoah!
Just finished reading through this thread. Took me 2 days lol. But was definitely worth it.
Many thanks to all involved in it. I learnt a lot.

Noticed the OP and another are now(though I did know this before)banished? That in itself must be another story.

Threads like this are worthy of sticky's IMO.

[5F6-A]

hahah glad you liked it!

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by Lowdown

Noticed the OP and another are now(though I did know this before)banished?

You mean BANNED or VANISHED...?