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Unread 02-08-2011, 10:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Hi fellow toanfreakz

I currently have some A4 mags in the stock pickups in my Al-2000. The experimental side of me went and ordered an A2/A5 set of mags. As I was reviewing my order I realized that the A5 is in fact an unoriented A5

SO

I was wondering if some of you fellow magnet swappers could tell me what sort of changes to expect by switching from A4 to A2 in the neck, and A4 to unoriented A5 in the bridge.

Thanks!
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Unread 02-09-2011, 11:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Anybody have experience with these magnets?
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Unread 02-10-2011, 07:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

This is one thing I really do not understand. There is another thread about someone asking what will happen if he puts in gold plated pole screws he has. In the time it often takes to get an answer, you could have actually done the swap and heard for yourself. Why does getting opinions about something that you could just do that does not take much time or money, and you already have the parts to do, so important?

Just do it, then if you feel the need tell US how the tone was altered, if you liked it or not.

I can see asking this question if you want to know before spending a lot of money or doing something that is very time consuming or difficult, to avoid unnessessary expenditure, but something like this could have been done, and then returned to stock 4 or 5 times in the 24 hours between your posts.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 08:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

The magnets are in the mail, I was just wondering in the meantime. I figured that this forum would be more than happy to discuss this topic.

I will certainly report back after the swap.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 08:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Call the place you placed the order from and ask. I have no idea either. Would love to know tho.


Un-ORIENT-ed = not from the orient
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Unread 02-10-2011, 09:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Quote:
Originally Posted by captcoolaid View Post
Un-ORIENT-ed = not from the orient
I will definitely report back.

I dig the A4s, but the bridge pup could use a bit more power and punch. I heard that A5 is a more aggressive magnet, and well A2 has been used in the neck many a times with successful results (so I hear) so I figured I'd give it a shot.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 09:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

A2 will have more compression and feel softer than A4s, the A4s tend to be more articulate. An unoriented 5 will be very close to an A4, the normal oriented 5 will feel harder and be more dynamic and have a bit more extended frequency response. This is very general, and much of it depends on the guitar it is going in.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 06:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Will the unoriented A5 increase the output over the A4? It sounds like I might just leave the A4s in and save the new mags for a project down the road.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 06:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Yes, even an unoriented A5 is stronger than a A4. Heck, a A2 or A3 is stronger than a A4. But there is more tone than mere output.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 07:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Of course there's more to tone than output, I'm just saying I could use a bit more output. Is that such a crime?
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Unread 02-10-2011, 07:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

A2 and A5 will give you more output.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 07:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

The AIV's certainly work well in those Benwabranes of yours, Rod.

Perfect, IMO .
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Unread 02-10-2011, 10:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Skatt...seems like a good question to me.
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Unread 02-11-2011, 07:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

It is a good question, I thought the OP already had the magnets, so I thought it would be far more informative for the OP just to do the swap and then report to us, rather than to ask others what to expect. Sorry.
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Unread 02-11-2011, 10:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

^It's all good, man
Mags came in today so I should be swapping tonight, hopefully with some clips!
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Unread 02-11-2011, 03:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

keep us posted!!
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Unread 02-12-2011, 01:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE View Post
Heck, a A2 or A3 is stronger than a A4.
This is just NOT true.

If you provide me with an e-mail address (PM me if you so wish), I'll send you an Excel file from the italian magnet factory I've dealt with in the past with the AlNiCo grades they make (they make'em all but UnOriented A5), so you can see the differences for yourself.

HTH,
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Unread 02-12-2011, 02:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

IME AIII is the weakest
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Unread 02-12-2011, 02:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
This is just NOT true.

If you provide me with an e-mail address (PM me if you so wish), I'll send you an Excel file from the italian magnet factory I've dealt with in the past with the AlNiCo grades they make (they make'em all but UnOriented A5), so you can see the differences for yourself.

HTH,
Interesting, I'll start by saying I actually haven't got a clue, but I read somewhere that AIV's are the weakest. I also read that AIV isn't actually a proper specification and therefore varies a lot between manufacturers. BTW I'm not trying to disagree with you, just interested in this magnet thing.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 04:28 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipper View Post
Interesting, I'll start by saying I actually haven't got a clue, but I read somewhere that AIV's are the weakest. I also read that AIV isn't actually a proper specification and therefore varies a lot between manufacturers. BTW I'm not trying to disagree with you, just interested in this magnet thing.
That rumour depends on a old story in 70ies that says that weaker A5 (out of facory specs) were specified as A4's at the factory. The nowadays A4 are in a wide range of ingredients but easy to reckognize as A4.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

If you only look at gauss, and not coersive force, they rank this way:
A5 12,800
A2 7,500
A3 7,000
A4 5,600

Ranking them by coercive force in oersteds:

A4 720
A5 640
A2 560
A3 480
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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:20 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
This is just NOT true.

If you provide me with an e-mail address (PM me if you so wish), I'll send you an Excel file from the italian magnet factory I've dealt with in the past with the AlNiCo grades they make (they make'em all but UnOriented A5), so you can see the differences for yourself.

HTH,
kink56 at hotmail dot com
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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

It's so hard to know what's going on with this stuff if you're not charging the magnets yourself. I've got quite a few magnets that I've been trying in different pickups, but I have no way of knowing how fully charged they are.

Rod's info would seem to be good, in that of the magnets I've got lying about the A3s feel weakest in terms of pulling them apart from one another - but don't necessarily seem that weak in a guitar. Definitely a more complicated omelette than just looking at the specs or seeing how strong the magnets are in terms of gauss or coercive force IMO.

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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:56 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Liam I agree, try stacking two A5s and the try pulling them apart! You have to slide the things to get them to come apart.

The specs also tell you how much they are resistant to outside forces. Some formulas are more stable than others. I magnetize my own by the way.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 10:23 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Well since we are talking about his now, I'm gonna ask this question that popped in to my head the other day. I already know that magnets will lose magnetism over time when the magnetic field around the Pickup is disturbed (by the strings vibration and other contributing elements ). So will that make a magnet that started out as an A5 to something closer to a A2? or is a vintage (demagnetized) A5 a completely different thing from a A2 A3 or A4?
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Unread 02-12-2011, 10:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

No typically Alnico mags will only lose 5% over 100 years or so. And the make up of the different mags keeps it an A5.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 02:22 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKATTERBRANE View Post
kink56 at hotmail dot com
Sent!
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Unread 02-12-2011, 02:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

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Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
Sent!
Thank you, looks to be similar to the charts and info I have.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 02:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Here are the results from doing a little testing. The A4 was not available to me when I did this test.


Alnico Magnet Strengths - confused
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Unread 02-12-2011, 02:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Alnico IV vs Unoriented Alnico V

Great stuff Kevin.
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