Tokai or greco les paul custom Black

[atticus182]

HI

I'm new here and I want to buy a beautiful les paul custom black beauty! I play mostly Rock/hardrock So, I read a lot on japan crafted les paul and I have about 600$ to put.

I found 2 guitar on ebay:

Greco les paul custom and a tokai les paul custom.

Wich one is the best and why?

Tokai LP Custom Black 80's Model - (eBay.ca item 360041375937 end time 19-Apr-08 03:52:08 EDT)

GRECO 80-90's LP CUSTOM BLACK BEAUTY 70's Style - (eBay.ca item 350044672235 end time 14-Apr-08 02:49:36 EDT)

Thanks a lot!!

[classic]

Originally Posted by atticus182

HI

I'm new here and I want to buy a beautiful les paul custom black beauty! I play mostly Rock/hardrock So, I read a lot on japan crafted les paul and I have about 600$ to put.

Hi ... and welcome ...

If I were you I would pass on that 'Tokai' ... UK headstock with that ugly dimple, no long tenon which says that it is a very low model and NO s/n ... that's strange ...
That Greco would be the better choice ... if you'd only have to chose between those two what I don't believe ...
Burny Black Custom LP Guitar MIJ bei eBay: Electric (endet 17.04.08 04:33:38 MESZ)
Edwards Japan E-LP-92CD LP Custom John Sykes Model bei eBay: Electric (endet 19.04.08 15:02:15 MESZ)
Be patient and look carefully ... it could also be useful to register at
Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com :: Index
... to get closer to the detailed specs of the different brands ... there's alot of knowledge about MIJ ...

[Axeman16]

burny is the best bang for your buck. tokais will be in the $1000 range, greco $800, and burny $600.

[Axeman16]

that tokai is made in china, and the greco looks korean. edwards are nice, so are the epeiphone elitist.

[classic]

Originally Posted by Axeman16

that tokai is made in china, and the greco looks korean. edwards are nice, so are the epeiphone elitist.

The Greco could be actually a Cort made Greco ... a look at the control cavity could enlighten this - they often have the Cort-Tek pots which are only used on Cort guitars ...

[tonepot]

Originally Posted by classic

it could also be useful to register at
Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com :: Index
... to get closer to the detailed specs of the different brands ... there's alot of knowledge about MIJ ...

Roger ... so you think that japanaxe ain't worth of visit then?

[classic]

Originally Posted by tonepot

Roger ... so you think that japanaxe ain't worth of visit then?

Sami,
you're teasing me ... certainly Japanaxe is worth a visit ... no question ...
you know exactly what I mean ... TGF is the established forum for MIJ -there's more traffic than on JA, it means more opinions ... until now ...
But you're more knowledgable on Greco than I am ... what do you mean ???

[tonepot]

hehe ... yep Roger, i was just teasing ya

it's hard to judge (better pics would be great), this greco has mint collection logo but truss rod cover is not original,
then tuners looks to be greco's original tuners but then there's "someting weird" on that neck joint though it's clearly a long tenon
i've seen many greco's without serial numbers and i don't believe that MIK greco's exist at all, it's just a talk but > ?
I was told (by Japanese guitar-shop owner/vintage expert) that greco serial numbers were often missed in a hurry ...

anyway i think this could be low-grade greco custom from the mintcollection period ... but i would pass this one!
too many open questions still left ...

[atticus182]

Hey!! thanks all for the informations. I just bought this Burny Black Custom MIJ that I think is from 1984-85:

Burny Black Custom LP Guitar MIJ - (eBay.ca item 220222548066 end time 10-Apr-08 07:00:31 EDT)

So, next week, I will have it!!

What do you think about this burny?

[classic]

Originally Posted by atticus182

What do you think about this burny?

I guess you've done it well ... this guitar has fret-edge binding a fretboard that looks black like ebony ... I think it is ebony actually.
And the overall condition is excellent if you consider the over 20 years of age ... and your budget ...
Congrats & enjoy ...
BTW - don't believe the 8 kgs of weight ... he actually meant 'over 8 lbs' I'm sure ...

but then there's "someting weird" on that neck joint though it's clearly a long tenon

Sami, you're right ... that rectangular 'tenon' says that it hasn't been manufactured at Tokai plant - their tenons have chamfered edges ... so I guess that it is a Cort (Korean) made ... perhaps assembled in Japan.
Look at this one ... this is a Cort ...
Greco 80-90's LPC LP Custom Black Beauty Guitar - eBay Right-Handed, Electric, Guitar, Musical Instruments. (end time 15-Mar-08 13:56:37 AEDST)

[doublecut]

These Grecos with no serials really cause some confusion. The Greco above was a Cor-Tek (Cort) made Greco. Some of the Cor-Tek made grecos have Cor-Tek pots which means they were made at the Cor-Tek factory in Korea which also makes Cort guitars. If a no serial Greco has a non rounded tenon and a brick shaped (no back slope nut) then it was made by Cor-Tek. Now to get more confusing, there are Grecos with no serials that were made in Japan by the Tokai factory. The Tokai made no serial Grecos are very different from the Cor-Tek made Grecos and usually have a EG-75 or EGC-75 model number stamped in the neck pickup cavity and like classic said they have a rounded tenon and often have fret edge (nib) binding. The Tokai made no serial Grecos were sold at a higher price than the Cor-Tek made no serial Grecos. Also I'm not aware of Fujigen missing any serials on Greco guitars, the Grecos with no serials are either from Cor-Tek or Tokai.

[sarge40]

I actually have a Tokai-made no serial Greco so I can clarify some issues. Firstly, yes, the Greco in that auction was a Korean Cort-made Greco. A dead giveaway to these are the "octagonal" pickup routings, shielding paint in the pickup routes and the control cavity, square tenon, yellow headstock binding, brick-shaped nut, cortek pots, bell shaped truss cover (easily changed out though) and you can sometimes see the difference in the rosewood and the general appearance, something I can't really explain, but it just "looks cheaper".

The no serial Tokai-made Grecos have a different pickup routing. The routing for pickup foot/screw clearance at the bottom of the routes is a squarish routing, as opposed to the ovalish routing on Greco MIJ Grecos. The nut is sloped slightly on the backside. The tenon is a Tokai-type offset transitional (medium) tenon, not a long tenon, with an unfilled short rounded routing just behind it (probably because its easier for the CNC to do than trying to make a square route for the tenon). The control cavity has shielding paint, but the pickup routes do not. The pots are full size pots. The stock pickups have braided wire leads, not the plastic covered leads. There is no volute. The frets have the nib binding. The truss cover is the MIJ Greco cover, not the bell cover. Also, the channel for the leads from the selector switch run in a channel that cuts diagonally across the low E side of the neck pickup route, below the level of the bottom of the pickup route, to the control cavity, just like the Tokai routings. Most have the stamp in the neck cavity, on a strip of the cavity that is not painted.

Of course pictures would help, but unfortunately, I don't have any with me right now. I'll try to post some later. BTW, my Tokai-made Greco plays beautifully (despite its dings and scratches galore).

[classic]

Originally Posted by sarge40

I actually have a Tokai-made no serial Greco so I can clarify some issues ... The control cavity has shielding paint, but the pickup routes do not.

I agree with most of your explanations ... but ...
With all respect ... I've never seen a MIJ Tokai/Tokai made guitar with a shielding paint in the cavities ... except the Korean Tokais ...
All Grecos with shielding paint seem to be Korean made Corts ...

Remember your discussion at Tokai Forum ...

BTW - one of the most difficult things is ID-ing a Greco ... there are a lot of things which are not understood properly ...

[sarge40]

Yes, the shielding paint in the PICKUP CAVITIES seems to be unique to the Corts. I have seen numerous Tokais with shielding paint in the CONTROL CAVITY. Mine has it as well, but not in the pickup cavities. This is an important distinction. I don't think I ever stated anything to the contrary myself over in Tokai Forum, but if I did, please show me where, and if in fact I did, then my bad.

There is very little documented on this topic, so everything I stated was pieced together from other sources and my observations. Although I've seen Tokais with control cavity shielding, which I believe was stock, and my Greco has the same shielding, I'd offer the disclaimer that I cannot confirm that it was this way stock. So, I may be right, but I may be wrong. I believe the shielding was stock, but if anyone is going to get hung up on that point, then disregard the fact that I even said it. I'm fairly certain that the other points remain valid.

[classic]

Originally Posted by sarge40

Yes, the shielding paint in the PICKUP CAVITIES seems to be unique to the Corts. I have seen numerous Tokais with shielding paint in the CONTROL CAVITY. Mine has it as well, but not in the pickup cavities. This is an important distinction. I don't think I ever stated anything to the contrary myself over in Tokai Forum, but if I did, please show me where, and if in fact I did, then my bad.

Sorry, m8 ... I think you're right and I was wrong !!!

BTW - I didn't say that you're stating something to the contrary to yourself ... I just said 'remember' - there was a wide discussion over there where this subject had been chewed through - but obviously not enough for me !!!

[sarge40]

Well, with all the non/misinformation out there, it's always possible that I was wrong. I've been wrong before and my wife tends to remind me of that whenever she gets an opportunity to do so.

There is one thing I know for sure, and its that nobody, including myself, seems to know everything there is to know about the MIJ stuff. Still trying to absorb information here and there.

Cheers!