Does a heavy body guarantee better sustain?

[MorganPeline]

Hi,

I live in China and I came across a really well made blue (stripe?) Les Paul copy in a cheap shop I know here for @US$550. The brand name was Max (The headstock literally says 'Max'). Even though this is a Chinese copy, it's really well made...it even has the frets properly bound and covered on the sides. But the thing that struck me is it is the heaviest Les Paul I have ever ever picked up including my own Epiphone Les Paul Custom and real Gibsons. So... question is, as a hypothetical excercise because I don't actually have the money, if I bought it and changed everything: pickups, electronics, bridge, nut etc...would it become a guitar with amazing sustain simply because it is much haeavier than most Les Paul copies?

I throw the question to the floor!

[L60N]

No

[Project Hayes]

A heavy body guarantees a sore back

[longjaw]

No it does not.

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by MorganPeline

....I throw the question to the floor!

....then I kick it out the door!!!

[River]

No.

[MorganPeline]

That's pretty much unanimous then!



If I had the cash I would have probably had a try as an excercise...

Thanks all!

[L60N]

Originally Posted by MorganPeline

That's pretty much unanimous then!



If I had the cash I would have probably had a try as an excercise...

Thanks all!

The you neednt have asked?

The answer is NO!

[Jason]

Sustain has more to do with the hardness of the material, which is independent from weight. Think of lead or gold: they're very heavy but also very soft and would therefore absorb most vibration.

[Loserface300]

No. Nope, nada, zip, filtch....

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by Loserface300

....filtch....

Filtch??? If you 'Google' 'filtch', I think you'll be a bit surprised.
Did you mean 'zilch'?

zilch (zlch) Slang
n.
1. Zero; nothing.
2. A person regarded as being insignificant; a nonentity.
adj.
Amounting to nothing; nil: "Business was zilch" (New York).

[h.-m. smith]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

If you 'Google' 'filtch'...

...eeeeew!

(edit! this what my former teachers would have been proud of: using an english spoken internet forum and improving my knowledge of the english language!)

on topic: no!

[Udonitron]

I think my light Edwards has just as much sustain...if you think about it, sound, logarithmically, would or should travel better in less dense wood. I suppose it also has to do how old the tree was when it was cut...ring spacing, etc.

[River]

One does not want the sound traveling through the body. That absorbs energy from the strings, shortening the length of time they can continue to vibrate after having been struck. The longest "sustain" would be achieved by ensuring that no string vibration was absorbed by anything. Class dismissed.

[Udonitron]

I disagree...if that were the case why not make all guitars out of solid plastic? The wood is to the guitar what a cone is to a speaker.

[MorganPeline]

Tradition?

[Udonitron]

Exactly

[River]

Originally Posted by Udonitron

I disagree...if that were the case why not make all guitars out of solid plastic? The wood is to the guitar what a cone is to a speaker.

You can disagree with physics until the cows come home - they won't change. Guitars are generally made of wood because, despite what's frequently said here at MLP, sustain is not the most important quality of a guitar. There's that "tone" thing, that argues that the vibrations of the wood will be fed back into the strings so that they pickups can "pick them up". I'm skeptical about that, too, but that's the conventional wisdom. There's something to it when you're comparing flexible hollow bodies to slabs of alder or mahogany, fer shure. Is there anything to it based on differences in grain pattern or density? I call bullshit, but I could certainly be wrong.

Originally Posted by MorganPeline

Tradition?

And beauty. Wood is a lovely material.

[Project Hayes]

I wonder how this sounds and sustains?

According to Rivers post it should ring out for days because of its acrylic body should not absorb anything...

I am not saying it does or doesn't, I am curious though....
Just not curious enough to pay $10k for it to find out

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by River

You can disagree with physics until the cows come home - they won't change. Guitars are generally made of wood because, despite what's frequently said here at MLP, sustain is not the most important quality of a guitar. There's that "tone" thing, that argues that the vibrations of the wood will be fed back into the strings so that they pickups can "pick them up". I'm skeptical about that, too, but that's the conventional wisdom. There's something to it when you're comparing flexible hollow bodies to slabs of alder or mahogany, fer shure. Is there anything to it based on differences in grain pattern or density? I call bullshit, but I could certainly be wrong.

You? Wrong? NO WAY!

And now for some of that good ol' "conventional wisdom":

String vibration is transmitted/transferred to the body and the energy is consumed to make the body vibrate. When the body vibrates, the vibration disturbs the strings' vibration. Although the body gets energy from the strings vibration, the body does not share all the vibrating characteristics with the strings. In other words, the strings' and the body's vibration differ in level and phase, so consequently part of the vibration gets cancelled/lost, which in turn has an effect on the overall tone of the guitar. How much of an effect is purely subjective, but it does have one nevertheless. This is the main reason Gibson decided to use maple as the top-wood for the LP which acts as an inertia block (due to it's density) to help eliminate most of the string vibration from being absorbed by the body. The bridge also plays a role in that it helps to concentrate the majority of the vibrations to one particular [very small] area of the top.

And as far as "grain pattern"? That may very well be why NO two LPs sound exactly alike? Save for the influence of the pickups/electronics.

[Nigel T.]

Originally Posted by h.-m. smith

...eeeeew!

(edit! this what my former teachers would have been proud of: using an english spoken internet forum and improving my knowledge of the english language!)

on topic: no!

You can also try Urban Dictionary for further eeeews.

[Mono]

Originally Posted by rockstar232007

String vibration is transmitted/transferred to the body and the energy is consumed to make the body vibrate. When the body vibrates, the vibration disturbs the strings' vibration. Although the body gets energy from the strings vibration, the body does not share all the vibrating characteristics with the strings. In other words, the strings' and the body's vibration differ in level and phase, so consequently part of the vibration gets cancelled/lost, which in turn has an effect on the overall tone of the guitar. How much of an effect is purely subjective, but it does have one nevertheless. This is the main reason Gibson decided to use maple as the top-wood for the LP which acts as an inertia block (due to it's density) to help eliminate most of the string vibration from being absorbed by the body. The bridge also plays a role in that it helps to concentrate the majority of the vibrations to one particular [very small] area of the top.

And as far as "grain pattern"? That may very well be why NO two LPs sound exactly alike? Save for the influence of the pickups/electronics.

Sounds about right to me. I really like the maple cap explanation too

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by Mono

Sounds about right to me. I really like the maple cap explanation too

Thanks!

[Udonitron]

Yessum. Various maples have different densities however. Rock maple is a hell of a lot harder than conventional maple.

[The_Sentry]

Its a Musical Universe

[BigBadWolf1171]

i dont know much about wood density, other then common knowledge. but heres something i find interesting. my dean hardtail and LP standard are both made of mahogany with the LP having a maple veneer both with decent tone, the Lp being heavier, when unplugged the LP literally vibrates 3 times as much as the dean. Plugged in, same pick ups installed in both, the dean is a little brighter. the only difference is the dean has a thicker, non adjustable tail piece that mounts directly to the body as apposed to sitting on 2 post.both being chrome pot metal im sure.as far as sustain the LP has a little more.

[dspelman]

Originally Posted by Udonitron

I disagree...if that were the case why not make all guitars out of solid plastic? The wood is to the guitar what a cone is to a speaker.

They DO make guitars out of solid plastic. And they have superb sustain. The Dan Armstrong plexi guitars are some of the best-sustaining guitars ever built. And they make guitars out of mostly solid aluminum (See "Travis Bean") and get great sustain. And the neck through Yamaha SG2000's with heavy bridge and a solid brass sustain block *also* sustain like crazy.

If your guitar resonates and makes a lot of sound unplugged, you're using string energy to do that, just as you do with an acoustic guitar. At no time does that guitar resonance add anything back into the string; it ONLY takes string energy away. Less string energy = less sustain. You can disagree, just as you can insist that the earth is flat, but those are the basic physics.

[BigBadWolf1171]

Originally Posted by dspelman

They DO make guitars out of solid plastic. And they have superb sustain. The Dan Armstrong plexi guitars are some of the best-sustaining guitars ever built. And they make guitars out of mostly solid aluminum (See "Travis Bean") and get great sustain. And the neck through Yamaha SG2000's with heavy bridge and a solid brass sustain block *also* sustain like crazy.

If your guitar resonates and makes a lot of sound unplugged, you're using string energy to do that, just as you do with an acoustic guitar. At no time does that guitar resonance add anything back into the string; it ONLY takes string energy away. Less string energy = less sustain. You can disagree, just as you can insist that the earth is flat, but those are the basic physics.

the guitar player for Buckcherry has a LP style guitar with an aluminum cover over 95% of the guitar body, Id be curious to know what that does to/for his tone and sustain.

[Udonitron]

Originally Posted by dspelman

They DO make guitars out of solid plastic. And they have superb sustain. The Dan Armstrong plexi guitars are some of the best-sustaining guitars ever built. And they make guitars out of mostly solid aluminum (See "Travis Bean") and get great sustain. And the neck through Yamaha SG2000's with heavy bridge and a solid brass sustain block *also* sustain like crazy.

Oh I know that

[brentrocks]

Originally Posted by Project Hayes

A heavy body guarantees a sore back

LMAO!!!!!