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Unread 12-03-2011, 10:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Hey guys, so I'm about ready to snap! My buddy got this new guitar and I was helping him set it up, but I'm not exactly a floyd rose expert...

so I kept tuning it, and as I did, I'd tune it, and by time I got from E to E, the first string I tuned was down at least a step if not way more... so I'd keep trying to play catch up trying to get them alll in tune..

Before you know it, the bridge is floating wayyy above horizontal!! and still no where near getting it in tune!

I've tried tightening the springs on the back quite a bit and still having the same issue.. It is a old guitar, was manufactured in 89, is it possible the floyd rose springs are just old and not up to the job and need to be replaced??

please help, about to flip out!
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Unread 12-03-2011, 11:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

You have to create equal tension between the strings and the springs, thats why all floating trems locking or not go out of tune when you bend or break a string. Best way for me is to take an object such as a 9V battery, back of a spoon etc and use it to keep the trem nearly flush with the body and removes string tension from the equation. Then string, stretch,tune up and as the tension pulls the bridge up, lower the spring tension, keep doing this untill all strings are stretched well and in tune and the trem is flush with the body..or however you like it.

I highly reccomend puting the springs back as close to where they were ahead of time, will probably make things a tad easier. Afterwards, stick to the same guage and brand, and change strings one at a time and you wont have to repeat this process with every change.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

where do you put the spoon when you do it, because the string tension, no matter how much i counter it with the springs on the back, the strings over power the springs.

Before I can get it even close to in tune the bridge is floating at a 45 degree angle almost above the guitar! Thats why I'm wondering if the springs just need to replaced or more added?
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

yep...sounds like you need to add more springs.
How many are installed now? What gauge are the strings?
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Happened to me, I went from 3 springs to 5 and all was well.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 12:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Watch this guys instructional videos and add years to your life.

Instructional Videos : FloydUpgrades.com!, Floyd Rose Tremolo Upgrades
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Unread 12-04-2011, 12:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Plenty of videos on the how to set up a floyd.
Really very easy when you do research first.
I use 3 springs normally but you can use 4 if you want a stiffer feel.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 05:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

I have watched too many videos, and set up some floyd roses before, but this one is just giving me so much trouble.

It only has 2 springs on the back, the strings are 10-42
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

10-42? at least 4 springs IMO.
8's 2 springs
9's 3 springs
10's 4 springs.
That is kinda my rule of thumb YMMV
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Unread 12-04-2011, 08:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Put the object in with no string tension at all (youll have to manually raise the bridge up ,IE put the arm in and push down all the way), then I tune the strings from the outside in...IE high and low E's, then if the bridge pulls up drastically with those, over adjust to where the bridge is down low, replace the object and continue with the B and A etc

If it has a cavity I place a 9V batt on its side in the cavity...and that keeps the bridge where I want it on my Ibanez. Regardless you place the object under the bottom part of the bridge where it goes down with no string tension.
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Unread 12-04-2011, 10:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Ya I tried using the back cavity, and I found something to put between the cavity and the bridge, that made it almost perfectly level, but no dice, couldn't get this thing in tune!

I got closer to getting it in tune with everything down two steps, but such a pain haha.

Since I'm not familiar with a floyd rose that much, what if he got more tension on the bridge then the strings, so the bridge was against the body when in tune, is that okay?

Right now he doesn't have a actual bar for the bridge so he can't use the wammy, so if he got more springs and over tensioned it, he could not lock the nut and be free to do different tunings until he got a wammy bar for it?

Cheers
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Unread 12-04-2011, 11:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Maybe you need to take it to a tech and get it done right.
Not saying you can't get it working but have it done right and be done with it.
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Unread 12-05-2011, 03:21 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

I agree with stray cat, if your having this much trouble there is a good chance something is off about the whole thing or we are misunderstanding something. Pics may help.

For clarification, with no string tension the bridge is down in the cavity or towards the body/where the if strung the pitch would be raised? When stringing the bridge moves up from the cavity and moves past the center point and into the area where the pitch drops? I'm trying to wrap my head around what your explaing but something does not compute.

If you can get all strings in tune with the bridge dropped into the recessed cavity setting the float should be easy...if the bridge is pulled up (as in dive bombed) at pitch, thats the tricky bit....

Playing with the bridge at either extreme can be problmatic, if its dive bomb mode the bridge saddles will be significantly lower, at pitch yanked up mode the saddles will be significantly higher....either extreme could cause playability problems as setting the action could be very difficult if not impossible...your best bet would be to block it with the bridge flush/level as the puts the saddles where they should be
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Unread 12-05-2011, 03:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Floyd Upgrades part 3 - Floyd Rose Setup & Intonation - YouTube!

I made my own trem block.......

Block it making sure the trem is Parallel with the face of the guitar..(Diagram I).... Diagram II,,is too loose of springs,Or Heavier gauge strings..Diagram III is the oposite,, too tight of Springs,, or too light of gauged strings..
I call this step " Finding Ground Zero"
,, restring it,, Set the fine tuners about 50%
tune it,, but dont lock the nut... then let the trem bolck off..

Once its in tune ,, then lock the nut..

Tune it with the fine tuners,,

Once its in tune,,, check the spring/string tension...
Do this by playing the open note (in Tune) and playing the same string on the 12th fret ,,,( Like setting Intonization...)
If the note is sharp when fretted on the 12th take a phillips screwdriver and back off the Spring claw..If the fretted note is flat.. tighten the claw...


Here is my little x-tra tip ..
I string my Floyds Backwards,,, Meaning..


I put the Balls on the pegs... and I also give them an additional couple wraps..


WHY....?
Beacause... I have found that at least 90% of all my strings brakes are at the bridge,, by doing this I just unlock the nut,, back off the string and relock the bridge,, tune,, then lock the nut again..Fine tune it,,, Im usually close to back in tune with the rest of the strings...Ususally..If Im not.. Im not far off..
Thats about it..


This is just my way I have came up with on my own over the many yaers of playing Floyds.......Hope it helps...
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Unread 12-05-2011, 09:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Thanks Jody, ya that help, and clarifies that what I was doing was right. I spent a bunch of time on it again last night giving it one last shot..

1) I blocked off the bridge so that it was floating parallel to the body
2) I put all the strings on with just a bit of tension until they were all on
3) I started tuning, I'd Tune the Low E, then the A, then the D etc
4) By the time the D was in tune, the E string was down to like a C, and the A was down to about a F#.
5) I'd try and get the E and A strings back in tune, then the D string would have dropped down a step or two
It turns into a cycle of playing catch up to get the strings in tune, and the bridge just keeps floating up and up way off the body.

I feel like its deff the springs that are the issue. My buddy is taking it in today and getting new/more springs on it to get it all working hopefully.

This has totally ruined me ever wanting a floyd rose! haha

Here is the guitar I'm working on to put a positive vibe into the forum, 89 Roto Explorer, my god is she beautiful!

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Unread 12-05-2011, 07:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

When you have it blocked it flush, you should have no float, the idea behind the block is that when you start getting enough tension to move the bridge in dive bomb direction, you adjust the springs to put it back on the block plus a little more if you have more strings to go...in an ideal situation you get all strings to pitch with the bridge not moving...then you simply adjust the springs till the bridge just barely lifts off the block with strings in tune and roughly intonated...then all you have left is fine tuning.
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Unread 12-05-2011, 09:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Ya, it deff wasn't allowing me to do that! The string tension of 3 strings was lifting it off the block!

Got another spring today at the local shop for 2$ and threw it on there and its now it working form! FINALLY!

I'm never buying a floyd rose for any of my own guitar hah!
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Unread 12-06-2011, 01:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

At least you got it figured out.
Floyds I can set up in no time flat.Very simple to work on after you have done a few.
Its a balancing act between string tension and spring tension simple as that.
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Unread 12-06-2011, 01:40 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by straycat View Post
At least you got it figured out.
Floyds I can set up in no time flat.Very simple to work on after you have done a few.
Its a balancing act between string tension and spring tension simple as that.

Exact-a-mundo..
Been playing with them for almost 30 years,, and starting waaaaay before internet.. So We had to figure it out ourselves....
But Im always glad to help...
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Unread 12-06-2011, 08:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Gld you got it sorted. I went almost 20 years without owning a floyd type trem...got one just because and besides being a pain to setup....having the adjacent strings go flat when bending makes them almost uselss for me....Bigsby FTW!!!
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Unread 12-06-2011, 09:57 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

The hardest part, was the guy that my buddy got the guitar off said that it was working before, and when we had got there to pick the axe up, he had just put a fresh set of strings on it.

I started trying to tune the thing and couldn't figure out what was going on at first!
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Unread 12-06-2011, 12:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Can't get this floyd rose to go!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by straycat View Post
10-42? at least 4 springs IMO.
8's 2 springs
9's 3 springs
10's 4 springs.
That is kinda my rule of thumb YMMV
Straycat and Iceman know their stuff about Floyd's. Those things are a beast but are amazing once you get them right.
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