Wierd Byrdland

[Sct13]

Got a buddy of mine who thinks he has a Byrdland, My question is.....Did they ever make a byrdland with dot inlays? I do not think so.....I have not seen the guitar yet. Im going to look at it on Wednesday.

I do know it has silkscreen logo, what he thinks is a non bound neck, Pat Pend Grovers, he says its black and has humbuckers. I know this is nothing without pics, trying to get them now.

It has am impressed serial number (No Made in USA) impression.

[__HM__]

*Weird

[mdubya]

Sounds interesting.

[Thumpalumpacus]

That sounds more like a 135, to me. Get some pics.

[Steven]

To my knowledge the Byrdland had rectangular inlay, distinct logo on headstock, truss rod cover said "Byrdland", and the neck was bound. (But it has been a LONG time since I saw one).

[River]

A Byrdland with dots?

I'll roll over and pass out.

They're HIGH DOLLAR guitars.

Anyway, evaluating this guitar without photos is like pissing up a rope. A waste of time, even if it does keep your toes warm.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, they were designed and marketed as high-end guitars.

[Sct13]

Well thats just it, I don't think its a Byrdland. HE thinks it is because it SAYS Byrdland on the trapeze, I am just looking at the phone pics.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, the pics will tell the truth.

[LIBERTYMACHINE]

[Sct13]

Sorry guys I can't (or don't know how to) get the photos off the damn phone!!! grrrrrrr.

[mdubya]

Originally Posted by Sct13

Sorry guys I can't (or don't know how to) get the photos off the damn phone!!! grrrrrrr.

You should be able to email them to yourself. Then you can save them to a hard drive or load them to photobucket or the like.

If you want to email them to me, I can host and post them for you. Just send me a PM and I will give you my email addy.

[Sct13]

I tried everything, my wife even tried. The pics are in my text message, when I try to select it it asks "set picture as" like wall paper or whatever, I cant save them to anything, they do say MMS......WTF is that?

[Sct13]

got it figured out, on the way!

[Sct13]

OK This is no Byrdland, IT may be a 60's...something ES125 that had P90's???

and was "modded" to Look like his favorite guitar players (Nugent) axe?

The switch is in the wrong place, the neck pickup is too low, and the rest is pretty obvious. I will break it to him gently, and with great caution.

Any help as to what it might be would be helpful, sorry for the delay in getting photos up, "Technology" .......

[mdubya]

Looks like a late 80's Studio something. I bet it sounds good.

[Sct13]

Wow someone took the pole pieces out of the pickups....must be a tone thing...

He says its a 61' So if everything else is wrong......

Yea I,m sure it'll probably rip, out of my Marshall.

[mdubya]

Originally Posted by Sct13

Wow someone took the pole pieces out of the pickups....must be a tone thing...

That is the Scott Grove Telecaster mod.

[Eric Smith]

Actually, that is exactly where a Byrdland's switch is.

My guess is that it is a 135 with the pup switch moved and a Byrdland trapeze installed.

Edit: this guitar has bound F holes.......is it a fake, or is it a Byrdland with dot inlays and unbound fretboard. Maybe a reneck?

What I'm saying is that this guitar SCREAMS Byrdland except for the inlays and lack of binding.

[lpplayer]

I'm not especially familiar with Byrdlands.....but that still looks strange based on what I have seen.

The pickup looks too far away from the end of the fretboard. Any Byrdland I have seen has a fancy design at the end of the board also, with binding all the way up including the headstock.

The switch still looks misplaced to me.

[Eric Smith]

Originally Posted by lpplayer

The pickup looks too far away from the end of the fretboard. Any Byrdland I have seen has a fancy design at the end of the board also, with binding all the way up including the headstock.

The switch still looks misplaced to me.

That is why I am wondering if it is a reneck. There should be a fancy scroll like design carved at the end of the fretboard as you say. The switch is right.

[Eric Smith]

[Sct13]

I was thinking reneck too, and moved switch, I will see it in person on Wednesday. IF it is a 61 (the serial number falls within the range of late 61 according to the information gathered) I really want to look at those pickups and pots, he already said we can rip into it. This might be fun. I will post results for curiosities sake..... There is only 20 frets on this one and 24 on a Byrdland, which explains the appearance of the pickup location. A few measurements will show.

[flameburst]

Even though this is a thinline, the shape of the body, cutaway shape and position of pickups suggests a modified ES-175D, or something similar. Possibly a 1961 ES-175 body (made thinner) with a lower-end model replacement neck in the late 1960's. Refinished black? A weird switch position however. Could they be PAF's? or Pat.Pend No.s?

Is the black finish original that you can determine? Is there an original orange label inside denoting the model? Bindings look very white. F hole bindings look thicker than usual. Try and use a UV blacklight on it if you can.

Very hard to tell from these photos, but if it is a factory job from 1968/1969 (it's possible) then it could be an unusual custom ordered guitar. The original owner might have ordered the best elements/featured he liked from an ES-175D and a Byrdland, without the bling (less fancy inlays, etc). Gibson did have unfinished spare/replacement bodies and necks from certain models in room/s around the plant during the 1960's. Have a look at the end colour pages in Duchossoir's 'Gibson Electrics - The Classic Years'. There are a few examples of hybridised instruments there.

I have an ES-5 Switchmaster from 1961 with a 1960 FON and a (chunky) full-width L5-CES neck from 1969. It's all-original (no evidence of a re-neck or re-finish). 'Custom' TRC and late 1960's 'burst pattern. x3 unmolested PAFs. These things did happen - either as one-off orders or 'employee' guitars and were not necessarily included in Gibson shipping totals.

Whatever it is, that certainly looks like a real player! Let us know your findings.

[Sct13]

Originally Posted by flameburst

Even though this is a thinline, the shape of the body, cutaway shape and position of pickups suggests a modified ES-175D, or something similar. Possibly a 1961 ES-175 body (made thinner) with a lower-end model replacement neck in the late 1960's. Refinished black? A weird switch position however. Could they be PAF's? or Pat.Pend No.s?

Is the black finish original that you can determine? Is there an original orange label inside denoting the model? Bindings look very white. F hole bindings look thicker than usual. Try and use a UV blacklight on it if you can.

Very hard to tell from these photos, but if it is a factory job from 1968/1969 (it's possible) then it could be an unusual custom ordered guitar. The original owner might have ordered the best elements/featured he liked from an ES-175D and a Byrdland, without the bling (less fancy inlays, etc). Gibson did have unfinished spare/replacement bodies and necks from certain models in room/s around the plant during the 1960's. Have a look at the end colour pages in Duchossoir's 'Gibson Electrics - The Classic Years'. There are a few examples of hybridised instruments there.

I have an ES-5 Switchmaster from 1961 with a 1960 FON and a (chunky) full-width L5-CES neck from 1969. It's all-original (no evidence of a re-neck or re-finish). 'Custom' TRC and late 1960's 'burst pattern. x3 unmolested PAFs. These things did happen - either as one-off orders or 'employee' guitars and were not necessarily included in Gibson shipping totals.

Whatever it is, that certainly looks like a real player! Let us know your findings.

Thanx the exact answer I was looking for, It does appear to be a modified version of the ones mentioned above also a ES-125TDC, or CS that was in 66'

It was "repainted" according to the owner, he obtained it in a debt settlement, and seems quite confident of its authenticity as a byrdland I'm not going to ask how much....

He knows very little of its history, but is interested in what I will dig up.
We shall see tomorrow. I will photograph it better, and report my findings.

I will look for the orange label, and an FON, Double check his serial # and its configurations and look at the pickups and pots, wiring etc. It seems the case (to him is) "very old" I have already mentioned that the case has no bearing on the guitar. The TRC looks painted. F-hole binding ?????what happened there? look for signs of a tampered neck joint. I guess the biggest tip off would be altered pickup cuts for the hummbuckers, whether or not they look factory clean or done with a pocket knife.....

We Shall see!!!!

[Eric Smith]

Maybe the position of where the FB connects at the body gives a clue. A Byrdland should connect at the 15th fret I believe. This one connects at the what appears to be the 18th, which the 175 does, but I thought that they had either block or split trapazoid, one or the other, inlays and they are a thicker body.

[mdubya]

It connects at the 15th fret.

[Eric Smith]

Originally Posted by mdubya

It connects at the 15th fret.

Doh! So it does.

[jppage25]

Byrdland's all have 23 1/2 scale necks to my knowledge if the scale is longer it's not a Byrdland or at least not a stock one. I collect books on Gibson and this guitar has most of the similarities of an old es135 accept for the hum bucking pickups and the tailpiece what ever it is sure looks nice.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The closest thing I can find is an ES-225 (with P-90s, no bucker models spotted), but the selector switch is positioned wrong: