Gibson Angus Young SG Cherry Help Please !

[Electricdaveyboy]

Hello Folks,
I hope you guys can help me with this.
I bought a Gibson Angus Young from that auction:
eBay: Neue und gebrauchte Elektronikartikel, Autos, Kleidung, Sammlerst

But wehn I look at the backside I see that this guitar has a different electronic cavity routing than regular Angus SGs I saw on the www.
Here is a link of an Angus SG with pics:
Google-Ergebnis für http://www.dennisbrizzi.com/guitars/2001%20Gibson%20Angus%20Young%20Signature%20SG/2001%20Gibson%20Angus%20Young%20Signature%20SG%20-%20back%20of%20headstock%201.jpg

[BadBeat78]

The Ebay one says " MADE IN JAPAN"!!!!!!
Its a fake!!!

[SingeMonkey]

Originally Posted by BadBeat78

The Ebay one says " MADE IN JAPAN"!!!!!!
Its a fake!!!

What? Where?

Control plate looks similar to mine which is certainly genuine:



Edit: Was the above comment a form of "joke?"

It also has a one piece back which is highly suggestive that it is exactly what it claims to be. I wouldn't worry. And if you are worried, you can buy mine for the same amount + shipping from South Africa - I'm trying to sell it to finance a hand-built amp

[Electricdaveyboy]

Thanks Monkey,
can you post pis from headstock front and guitar front, please?
Can you tell wehn gibson started to build those and wehn they stoped ?
Wich Serial No. is yours is it close to the one in the auction?
Thanks and a Happy New Year.
David

[BadBeat78]

But why does the auction says made in japan twice?

[KRaZeE]

Originally Posted by SingeMonkey

What? Where?

In the body of the auction...twice:

USED GIBSON
ANGUS YOUNG (AC/DC)
SIGNATURE MODEL SG!!
MADE IN JAPAN
YEAR: 2008
ANGUS.Y SG/AC

ID: 316089906 (This is an ID number which is applied to this individual item in our store.
Please note that this is not an item number on eBay nor a serial number.)

FEATURES

GIBSON USA
GUITARIST OF AC/DC
ANGUS YOUNG SIGNATURE MODEL SG

MADE IN JAPAN
YEAR: 2008

w/ORIGINAL HARDSHELL CASE

Aside from the headstock logo looking a little funny, which may be due to the pics themselves, it looks legit to me. *shrug*

[Electricdaveyboy]

I had been searching the web for this guitar since a few days and as this auction showed up I bought it in a second without reading the Made in Japan stuff.
Then I went for dinner and came back and found this email from the seller:

Hello again.
I would like to confirm that the used 2008 GIBSON USA ANGUS.Y SG/AC * AC/DC Angus Young 316089906 is made in Japan.
I just realized that we has put "Made in Japan" on the model at the site.
We are very sorry for wrong information.

If you have any questions, please let us know.
Thank you very much.
Best regards,

And then I began to wonder and searching the web for other AY SG´s and found them with a different electronic routing.

[nicolasrivera]

Since when is this model made in Japan? This is really weird.

[scottyk]

Originally Posted by nicolasrivera

Since when is this model made in Japan? This is really weird.

[BadBeat78]

On this guitar you got, is ther a made in usa stamp on the back of the headstock??

I dont believe there are made in Japan..

[TattooedCarrot]

Also says:

YEAR OF MANUFACTURE: 2008
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA
SERIAL NUMBER: 017780455

I think the Made in japan is probably a cut & paste mistake when listing the auction, probably using the format from a previous auction item that was Made in Japan.

The guitar looks like a Gibson to me. And the serial number matches 2008.

[SingeMonkey]

Serial:



Headstock:



Front:



With case:



Alternative front with more representative colour:



Mine is also a 2008. I believe they were discontinued in 2009 or 2010. It is most definitely made in the USA. I know that Burny made an AY SG, which I'm sure is a good guitar and someone could have faked the headstock logo, but I doubt it is as close a match as these two guitars are (even the fretboards look the same light rosewood shade).

That Made in Japan line is bizarre. There have never been Gibson branded guitars MIJ - only Orville by Gibsons. I wonder if solodallas will weigh in. He's also had one of these.

Edit:

Reading the thread more carefully, it's pretty clear that it's a mistake if these guys are known traders with good feedback. The guitar looks pretty much identical to mine - although I'm sure mine is in better condition, right potential buyers?

[cherrick]

Ebay rules allow you to get aa your money back because of the ad error. So you are protected.

No guitars that say "Gibson" are made in Japan. Period. All "Gibson" are made in America.

Unless a fraud.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think, like others above, that it is a misprint in the ad.

If it actually is a Japanese fake -- which I don't think it is -- then it would be the best I've seen on E-bay.

[Thumpalumpacus]

edited double-post.

[SingeMonkey]

Originally Posted by cherrick

Ebay rules allow you to get aa your money back because of the ad error. So you are protected.

No guitars that say "Gibson" are made in Japan. Period. All "Gibson" are made in America.

Unless a fraud.

Hmm, what's the word written under Orville there?



But yes. This is the only legit Gibson branding on Japanese Les Pauls you'll see.

[Grey]

Epiphone guitars are also marked "Epiphone by Gibson", they arn't Gibson guitars, neither are Orville's. Dosen't mean that they're bad, but they are what they are.

[shindig]

I just realized that we has put "Made in Japan" on the model at the site.
We are very sorry for wrong information.

Sounds like they put it on there by mistake. Have you contacted them about it?

[Kirk2000]

Fake, Fake, Fake.. That's not the original case. The original one has a silk flap with the Angus logo on it. The control access plate should have 5 screws and be rounded.. Are the machine heads Nickel plated? Take off the pickguard and see if the humbucker is an Angus Signature humbucker, check it with an ohm meter.. I would need to see the inside of the control cavity and a close up picture of the engraving on the vibrato tailpiece.. It might be a real Gibson SG converted to an Angus SG.. The copys never come with the original case.. I have spoken to Gibson about this and they have never changed the routing of the cover plate and all the cases came with the satin flap.. You can also take a caliper to the neck and see what you get.. His neck is thin and check the nut width.. Look at the pictures in the link you provided.. Thats what mine looks like and it is one of the first 5 produced in 2000. Think about it.. Why would Gibson change the routing on the cover plate on a Signature Model? They are all supposed to be the same.. I have been seeing a lot of converted SG's. Not to say that the dealer didn't know, they just were not looking that hard.. You can e-mail pictures to Gibson and they will verify the validity of the guitar.. The serial number might be legit, you can get them off real guitars on eBay. You have a case with the seller not to pay, in that, the case is not the OEM case that came with the guitar as described in the eBay description.. KIRK

[SingeMonkey]

So mine's fake too? Four control plate cover screws. No hideous, easily removed piece of cloth in the case?

I must say it was generous of both fakers to use 1 piece backs. And Gibson humbuckers. You'd think it'd be cheaper to fake a guitar with less fancy appointments. Generally odd that fakers - renowned for the crappy, sub-par immitations - would go to so much expense - cutting right into their profit margin - to make a guitar indistinguishable from the real thing except for a piece of cloth and a screw.

No. It's not fake. The only reason anyone ever thought so was the curious placement of "made-in-Japan" in the text.

[KRaZeE]

Originally Posted by SingeMonkey

The only reason anyone ever thought so was the curious placement of "made-in-Japan" in the text.

Well, no...the OP was originally questioning the shape of the back plate/route. The one in the auction has a 4 screw backplate. The one in the other link he posted shows a different route and cover with 5 screws, as do the pics on Gibbo's site. I have SGs with both, so either is legit so, OP, I wouldn't worry.

[Electricdaveyboy]

Thanks for your helpful coments.
I just tranfeed the payment and hope I will recieve the guitar soon.
The seller was verry kind and told me he has no problem to chancel the auction.
Fact is that both picture series I linked were from earlier production models and it seems they changed some specs of the models over time.
Keep on Rockin´

[upl8tr]

Originally Posted by Electricdaveyboy

Thanks for your helpful coments.
I just tranfeed the payment and hope I will recieve the guitar soon.
The seller was verry kind and told me he has no problem to chancel the auction.
Fact is that both picture series I linked were from earlier production models and it seems they changed some specs of the models over time.
Keep on Rockin´

Glad it worked out for you, don't forget the pics!!

H (soon to be) NGD!

[Kirk2000]

Did you call Gibson and verify that the serial number is in fact an Angus Signature SG model SGAYACNH1? The SG could be legit but you only have to put a sticker on it, replace the hardware and machine heads with nickel, if it didn't have them already. Next reproduce the engraved Lyre Vibrola tailpiece (the tailpiece engraving must be worn down and not a sharp new engraving) and put a legit Angus humbucker in it, 57' classic in the neck, and you would never know. This would double the value of a used SG.. And yes, they both could be faked Angus Young signature models.. Oh, on your 2008 model, Gibson told me that they never stamped the production year under the Made In USA stamp on the Signature model, regular production yes. I'm not trying to argue with you, I just don't want to see people loose their money.. If I was going to repro a Gibson model to double my money, this would be the guitar.. Minimal money invested, big profit.. And don't forget the Chinese copys. I hope what Gibson told me on the phone was wrong. The first thing that gives it away is the control cover plate..
I hope it's real and the Gibson rep on the phone was wrong.. I just listed the things you should be looking for to validate the guitar.. Call Gibson and send them some detailed pictures when you get it. They will authenticate it for you.. Good luck.. KIRK

Here you go, $370.. SG Angus Young Signature Electric Guitar
They even made a copy of my Custom Shop Angus Young VOS, (your going to have to cut and paste this link to get it to work) www. t r a d e t a n g .com/wholesale/gibson-sg-angus-young.html (remove the spaces)..

[upl8tr]

Originally Posted by Kirk2000

Did you call Gibson and verify that the serial number is in fact an Angus Signature SG model SGAYACNH1? The SG could be legit but you only have to put a sticker on it, replace the hardware and machine heads with nickel, if it didn't have them already. Next reproduce the engraved Lyre Vibrola tailpiece (the tailpiece engraving must be worn down and not a sharp new engraving) and put a legit Angus humbucker in it, 57' classic in the neck, and you would never know. This would double the value of a used SG.. What is the serial number of both your guitars, I'll call Gibson for you.. And yes, they both could be faked Angus Young signature models.. Oh, on your 2008 model, Gibson USA never stamped the production year under the Made In USA stamp on the Signature model, regular production yes, call them, I did.. Case closed, Imitation..
I'm not trying to argue with you, I just don't want to see people loose their money.. If I was going to repro a Gibson model to double my money, this would be the guitar.. Minimal money invested, big profit.. And don't forget the Chinese copys. I hope what Gibson told me on the phone was wrong, but without verifying the serial numbers, you can't be sure..

Here you go, $370.. SG Angus Young Signature Electric Guitar
They even made a copy of my Custom Shop Angus Young VOS http://www.*********.com/wholesale/g...gus-young.html

Too much detailed and knowledgeable info in this post to be ignored, if it were me, I'd be very concerned at this point.

[KRaZeE]

If it is indeed a converted Standard, wouldn't there be visible holes from the stop tailpiece or a visible filling under the vibrola? The holes for the mounting studs of stopbar sit outside the width of the bridge, so they should still be visible with the Lyre in place.

[Electricdaveyboy]

Here are some pics the seller posted to me.
If it maybe a convertion it must be funny that someone on the forum may have the same conversion.I am confused

[Kirk2000]

If the guitar hasn't shipped yet.. The seller is a legit guitar store in Japan, ask them to verify the pickups in the guitar.. Classic 57' in the neck and an Angus Signature in the bridge position.. When you get it you will know if the headstock was refinished to hide the crown logo.. The control cavity cover is what is putting me off.. Once you open the control cavity and look at the wiring, you will know. Ask for pictures of the control cavity and the rear of both pickups.. But I think you said you have already transfered the funds.. The original guitar could have had a tailpiece to make the conversion easier, just engrave the existing face to include the two lightning bolts and the Angus name.. The store might not know what they have.. Also remember that the finish is a special Angus color, not brown, not red.. A beautiful Burgandy Blackish color.. Nice..
I'm going through all this because when I was insuring my guitar collection this was the one guitar that I had trouble with insuring. They wouldn't do it till Gibson authenticated my guitar because of all the fakes.. Think about it, I show State Farm 20 Chinese fakes with real serial numbers. I buy each for $400 ($8000) and insure them for $150,000replacement value.. Then they are stolen, oops.. Then they pay out on fake Gibsons.. NOT!!! This guitar was the first in my collection and I bought it at a guitar show, no receipt, but it had all the required paperwork and hang tags.. All my other guitars I have proof of authenticity.. Guitar Center every so often sells a fake to someone that was a trade in, it happens.. Good luck.. If you need detailed pictures of my guitar I can send you some, but the link you provided are pictures of a real AY Signature.. I just don't want to see you get burned.. Oh, what is that smudge by the "G" in Gibson.. Might be a masking job gone bad to retain the logo during painting over the crown logo, you never know... KIRK

[Electricdaveyboy]

The main problem for me with calling Gibson is that they do not have a distributor here in germany.European headquater is in the Netherlands and Dutch is not my favored language ;-)

[TattooedCarrot]

I predict it will be fine. Let us know when it arrives.