Paypal loop-hole found

[Big John]

Just finished some interesting reading. If you've already heard about this, forgive me.

If you sell something and get paid for it through Paypal, then you will have no seller protection if you ship it USPS. Paypal requires online signature confirmation of delivery (for equal protection of buyer and seller), which the USPS does not provide. In other words, if you ship via USPS and the buyer claims that he never received anything, you are screwed. The buyer can keep the item and file a non-delivery claim with Paypal. This means you lose the item and your money. Scary.

The key here is the online signature confirmation. You have to use a shipper where the signature can be viewed online, period.

[Scooter2112]

USPS sucks ass anyway. Standard UPS or FedEx 2 day ground shipping has taken about 9 days by USPS.

That's interesting though, because the last item I bought on E-Bay required a signature through USPS, where UPS almost always just drops stuff off whether I'm home or not.

[Big John]

That's the catch...you have to have a signature from the buyer to prove that the package was delivered, and the signature must be viewable online. It's the viewable online part where USPS fails. The other 3 main carriers have systems that support online viewing of the signature. UPS does just drop stuff off, but I think you can designate a receiving signature on the shipping paperwork.

Bottom line: if you're a seller, don't use USPS if you use Paypal

[VastHorizon]

What if you had a Gibson sent to you house and no one was around, where do they drop it off? What if someone walking on your sidewalk saw it and grabbed it?

[GibsonSlash]

True!

I had a bad experience with UPS.
They just drop off at the front door and left. And found out the box has nothing in it, someone has took the item away.

Originally Posted by Scooter2112

UPS almost always just drops stuff off whether I'm home or not.

[VastHorizon]

Originally Posted by GibsonSlash

True!

I had a bad experience with UPS.
They just drop off at the front door and left. And found out the box has nothing in it, someone has took the item away.

If that's the case, does UPS pay for it? Is it covered by the insurance? It's technically negligence of the shipping company. Is it listed in the company's operations manual? That if no one's there to receive it, just drop it off?

[diceman]

USPS left my '65 Jaguar sitting on the front step. It was insured and had delivery confirmation - I'd hope that had someone walked off with it that the insurance would have covered it? UPS will leave you a note and tell you to come pick it up. USPS will just leave it on the steps... I actually went and met my '69 Deluxe at the depot as it was being unloaded from the cargo truck as I knew I wouldn't be around the following day and didn't want it left outside either...

John - great info regarding Paypal - thanks!

[Harpozep]

FedEX was my worst experience.
They delivered something to a person standing in front of my store. The F&%ker just signed some made up name and took the goods. I did not know it for weeks. I kept waiting for the package and finally did a trace.GRRR!
If you want free stuff, just hang out in front of stores and FedEx will hand it to you.

[Sgt.Pepper]

This has happened to me a couple of times recently on ebay - ever since you can't leave negative feedback for buyers. They requested a particular delivery service where you can't view an online signature, then took the money back through paypal. I won't use ebay again.

[5F6-A]

most delivery companies seem to be rather unprofesional a bit too often for my liking

[cryptozoo]

This exact scenerio Big John's talking about bit me in the ass a while back. I did USPS Delivery Confirmation when I shipped a pedal. The total it sold for was $250, which put it exactly at the Sig Required limit, which I was not aware of. Almost 6 months later, the buyer filed a claim saying they'd never gotten the pedal and PayPal awarded them a refund, even though I had signature confirmation. The buyer then put the pedal up on Craigslist and Harmony Central and sold it. PayPal would do NOTHING to help, wouldn't even give me an audience to voice my complaint. Bottom line -- ALWAYS DO SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION. USPS does offer this, btw. It's just an upgrade from Delivery Confirmation and costs a couple of bucks. What they don't offer is a true Tracking Number system.

[qwank]

i've had 2 guitars left by UPS on my front steps for over 5 hours each time. luckily noone took them. both times i was tracking them online so i knew right when they got delivered. unfortunatly i cant be home during the day. next time i get a guitar shipped, i'm having it come to my work, since i figured i got lucky twice, next time i might not be.

[captainbraindamage]

USPS Delivery Confirmation does not have to be signed for and therefore there is no signature to be online. Signature Confirmation does require a signature and the image of the signature is scanned with the mail carriers hand held scanner and then downloaded to the USPS website.
As in any large business there are procedures and there are employees that do not follow procedures and cut corners in order to slide by. Do not assume all of us are this kind of employee. I do my best to provide a good service for my customers.

[Texas07R8]

I ship UPS and require signatures. I even get a letter in the mail from UPS with a photocopy of the actual signature and the shipping info. Very pleased with their delivery methods. HOWEVER, I can't tell you how many times they drop stuff off at my house and leave it on the front porch. Granted I'm in a cul de sac and I have a courtyard entry way to my house and that hides it from the street but still, you have to wonder.

Luckily I've never been burned on a sale like some others have posted but I can see how easy it could be done. I always insure for at least 100% of the value and always require a signature when I sell anything more than a few bucks.

[Sgt.Pepper]

Originally Posted by cryptozoo

This exact scenerio Big John's talking about bit me in the ass a while back. I did USPS Delivery Confirmation when I shipped a pedal. The total it sold for was $250, which put it exactly at the Sig Required limit, which I was not aware of. Almost 6 months later, the buyer filed a claim saying they'd never gotten the pedal and PayPal awarded them a refund, even though I had signature confirmation. The buyer then put the pedal up on Craigslist and Harmony Central and sold it. PayPal would do NOTHING to help, wouldn't even give me an audience to voice my complaint. Bottom line -- ALWAYS DO SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION. USPS does offer this, btw. It's just an upgrade from Delivery Confirmation and costs a couple of bucks. What they don't offer is a true Tracking Number system.

I know where you're coming from. One of the guys who pulled this stunt on me was then trying to sell the parts at a guitar show. Ebay make it too easy for petty criminals.

[cryptozoo]

Shit! I hope you knocked him out. I made every effort to get ahold of the prick who burned me. Got his name, phone number and former address, but after a day of calls he cancelled his phone service. Same with his e-mail. I think I even found his father and ex-wife. She was a real-estate agent but had quit her job and left no forwarding addy, or so they said. I still look for him on occasion, and one day, I'll find him.