Not the norm...

[sangandongo]

I don't usually ask about fakes. I can typically spot them. Norlin fakes even more so than moderns... but this...

First fret trap inlay? Rosewood binding? WTF! I love it if it's real...

Early 70's Gibson Les Paul Goldtop

What stands out is that the plastic is too white and the gold looks too mustardy.

[TU BE]

Ask for more pics. Particularly of the serial number, headstock etc. Can't tell much from that pic.

[teeloh]

If I had to take a wild guess, i would say a deluxe that has been fiddled with.

But to remove the guessing, more pics.

[Echevarria]

The first fret inlay could be a pick and the binding reminds me of the 50's tribute studio that everyone is raving about except it has mini-hb's. More detailed pictures should tell what it really is.

[murkat]

do not rule out the plausible employee speck'd special..... happened, happens all the time

[sangandongo]

I bought it for $1500. It's so. so. so. sick. I will share vids, etc. later. I can't tell you how excited this makes me. Sold my '79 Rickenbacker 450 / 12 string to fund it. Hell of a trade up.

[Boleskinehouse]

Appears to be real.. And that doesn't look like an inlay at the first fret. Dunno what that is though.

I think it has just had its binding removed or something.

[sangandongo]

maybe, but the finish goes right over. no evidence of that.

[Xavier_32]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Appears to be real.. And that doesn't look like an inlay at the first fret. Dunno what that is though.

I think it has just had its binding removed or something.

Definitely not an inlay. It's a triangle shaped pick. Lots of bassist use them. That's where I keep mine, too, right between the strings on the first fret.

[Boleskinehouse]

Could have been ordered that way I suppose.

[sangandongo]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Could have been ordered that way I suppose.

I imagine either is possible. It's simply something that can't be known for sure. I will take a black light to it when I get a chance.

Forgot to mention, it's not an inlay. It was a pick.

[sangandongo]

Originally Posted by sangandongo

I imagine either is possible. It's simply something that can't be known for sure. I will take a black light to it when I get a chance.
g
Forgot to mention, it's not an inlay. It was a pick.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That bottom line was me making a statement before I had the guitar in my possession. That was classic me. I refuse to edit it as punishment to myself for speaking too soon.

Based on the Norlin FAQ, this serial indicates the guitar is a '74, as it has 500,000 range number.

Features:
rosewood binding: looks legit. this isn't a refin either. The binding on the neck only runs up a bit from where it leaves the body and it's tapered on to the edge. There is no edge binding up the neck and there never was a binding channel cut. strange!

First fret inlay: I bet this was done after purchase, but who knows. It's a different material from the trap inlays and has less aging. The guy I bought it from says it was there when he got the guitar in 78.

Brass nut: The previous owner put that on in 78.

Tuners: grovers. Appear untouched. nothing else has been on it.

TRC: Says "Custom" rather than "Deluxe"

Neck: three piece mahogany.

Body: pancake

Neck Pickup: no sticker!
Bridge pickup: Pat.No black 60s style sticker.
Pots: Clarostat 500k audio taper
Caps: Sprague orange drop .047
No evidence that this has been desoldered or resoldered. Appears all original.

After these shots I removed the poker chip and kept the guard off. I prefer gold tops to be nekkid.


Anyhow... here are pics.
Picasa Web Albums - sangandongo - Les Paul Gold...





the strange inlay:








The rosewood binding:

[Boleskinehouse]

Very strange. What is that inlay supposed to be? And what is that under the guard?!?

[J.T.]

That rosewood binding is the bomb. I love it.

[Gemm]

Really intriguing guitar!

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Very strange. What is that inlay supposed to be? And what is that under the guard?!?

It looks like a some kind of logo? And the thing under the guard looks like something put on to stop the screw from touching the body (and to stop the movement)?

[sangandongo]

Originally Posted by Boleskinehouse

Very strange. What is that inlay supposed to be? And what is that under the guard?!?

Yeah, that inlay is funky weird. I don't know if it was done after the others or what.

Originally Posted by J.T.

That rosewood binding is the bomb. I love it.

Yeah, I do too. An unsuspecting person might confuse this for a modern LP Studio. It's almost like camouflage in that sense. I love the coloration though... really gives this guitar a unique vibe.

Originally Posted by Gemm

Really intriguing guitar!



It looks like a some kind of logo? And the thing under the guard looks like something put on to stop the screw from touching the body (and to stop the movement)?

I'm going to put the shape into an image search and see if I can come up with anything.

And yes, that little thing on the body was a piece of sticky rubber that had gone flat. A small dimple was already in place below the nut under the pick guard, i think this was placed there to keep it from getting worse, since the damage had already been done.

I had to run by my band practice space last night to pick up my charger for my Mac. One of my band mates was there with another friend recording some stuff, so I couldn't crank, but I did get to plug it into my '63 GA-40T for a quick, clean run. I have never played a true ABR-1 Les Paul, nor one with anything but a short tennon.

Maybe it was new-car-fever, but it was amazing. I need more time with it. Band practice is on Friday. I'm chomping the bit to really dig in with this.

The other strange thing I forgot to note: Treble vol/tone controls are on top. Does this wiring seem funny looking at all? I mean, aside from the pickup wiring, there's no braiding. The bridge wire is covered too. I pulled a knob and lifted the washer; looks like it's never been off the guitar. (shame on me.)

[Boleskinehouse]

The wiring isn't stock, that's for sure... And I've never seen that "(B)" stamp in anything either.

[sangandongo]

Shot him an email about the "B" and the wiring asking him what he knows. He may have been lying, which is more than likely, but whatever. $1,500 for this is a good price. I could flip it in a minute if I had to.

[sangandongo]

Boles: based on color and pick-up cavities and the covering of the top binding edge, what are your thoughts on the possibility this being a refin?

*edit - It seems to me that with all the checking on the sides, back, neck and headstock, the top should not have escaped without a good bit of its own. There is a bit of light checking, and there is a microscopic separation between the binding top, but that's the extent of it.

[Boleskinehouse]

I agree.

[sangandongo]

This is all academic at this point, since it's in my possession. I'm simply trying to get an idea of what might be what. I may take it down to Emerald City Guitars and see what they say.

[chipper]

Also, there is a gap between the neck pickup cavity and the neck itself. On Deluxe's, the cavity is usually flush with the edge of the neck.

[sangandongo]

This one has a stamp in the wiring cavity:

GIBSON LES PAUL DELUXE GOLDTOP 1970 W/OHSC - eBay (item 190424148278 end time Aug-26-10 12:08:36 PDT)

[sangandongo]

Originally Posted by chipper

Also, there is a gap between the neck pickup cavity and the neck itself. On Deluxe's, the cavity is usually flush with the edge of the neck.

Not so. My '80 Deluxe has the similar gap.

[chipper]

Originally Posted by sangandongo

Not so. My '80 Deluxe has the similar gap.

Ahh, I stand corrected - I can see that.

Btw, the colour looks about the same as my '75.

[sangandongo]

No worries, Chipper! (Love your Kryten pic, by the way.)

This may be hard to see because I'm using my phone to photograph this, but if you look closely you can see binding nubs on the rosewood binding on the neck. The neck rosewood binding stops between the 7th and 6th fret. It's sliced in at an angle and is very skillfully concealed. (I only just found it as I was typing this.)

The fret-end nubs stop at 10.

Nubs:


Binding to Fretboard blend. it's difficult to make out with this phone. It starts with the first 45 degree grain. from there to the nut is fret board edge rather than wooden binding.:

[chipper]

I can just make it out.

I initially thought that the binding might have been added during a re-fret (if its had one that is), but that doesn't explain why there is no binding at all on the lower part of the board.

It's certainly unusual but very cool looking none the less. I really like the rosewood binding on the body.

[sangandongo]

Me too. Since I'm almost entirely convinced it's a refinish, I'm going to with great care and slow diligence, remove the very small bit of gold that covers the front edge of the binding on the top. I think that it would be very cool to be able to see that rosewood from the front of the guitar, not just from the side.

Before I begin that project though, I need to take it to a vintage dealer and take a black-light to it.


I asked the owner if he knew what the "B" stood for, how long owned the guitar. I told him that the pot codes were Clarostats.

Hi John, All the old goldtop Les Pauls had that B in a circle in the control cavity until 72. Its a code for 2 piece maple top. Had the guitar awhile now, I got it from the owner who had it since 73. You have no worries you got an absolute home run on that guitar. I am so glad it kicks through your amp! Enjoy it there aren't that many vintage les Pauls around anymore and none for 1500.00 anywhere. Thanks, Tracy

I told him that I found a '74 on ebay with the "B" in it and that wasn't exactly right. Also, last night, after I sent the email, I figured out that it was a three piece top, not a two piece. I don't think I've ever seen a 2 piece Norlin Les Paul. I mentioned to him what we've concluded (both here on MLP and on LPF) and his response was this:

Hi John, I just wanted to tell you he is wrong Gibson had runs of numbers all over the place but it dosen't even matter if it does go to 74 because the value from 70 to 74 is the same. I stated in my add I dont want or need vintage lessons, I know as much as any dealer I belive and no one can tell me different that its not a refin top and I know the pots are original.

I told him "thanks, take care."

Honestly, I don't care. I just wanted a bit more information from him to fill in a gap here or there. He believes the shit is original: fine. I don't. one isn't more valid than the other, but it's like religion to me: I can prove the non-existence of one with the use of science and mathematics. Him believing really hard that this is something other than what it is despite the evidence stacked against it won't make it true.

[Boleskinehouse]

I don't remember ever seeing a B in the control cavity.. Maybe I'm just getting really dumb in my old age and never noticed one before.

[sangandongo]

Here's one:
GIBSON LES PAUL DELUXE GOLDTOP 1970 W/OHSC - eBay (item 190424148278 end time Aug-26-10 12:08:36 PDT)