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Unread 01-28-2009, 11:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

This is the last year they made the all mahogany bodies and necks. The tone difference is dramatic and (I think) much better than the maple necks the following years. This is the last of the models made in the desirable Kalamazoo, MI factory, before they moved to the Nashville, TN plant. Plays and sounds like a dream. This is one of my favorite guitars, but I've got a '67 Camaro RS convertible that is one week (or less) away from a completion on a complete restore and now is not the time to take money out of stock investments, so I'm parting with some gear.

All original, other than the pickups and tuners. I have one of the original pickups, but the two in it now are Seymour Duncan JB TB-4 (bridge) and AlNiCo II (neck). The frets are small, and low, and it absolutely plays like butter! It has the normal yellowing of the alpine white into a more creme color, "Twentieth Anniversary" engraved on the 15th fret (factory). Gold hardware, with black witch hat knobs and pickguard. Everyone wants this guitar and I hate to sell it. Asking $3,000.

No breaks or repairs. I have created a web page for it with very detailed information and detailed pictures: Please see http://www.chatbase.com/lespaul/ Email tim@studiotracks.com for information or questions you might still need. I'd love to keep this, if possible, so email or call me before I change my mind or get money from another source or a sale of other gear. Thanks!

PS: Yes, it comes with the case.

PSS: While I'm new to this forum, I am a known member at the HC forums, among other popular forums (having sold and bought and traded gear for years), and have 100% feedback on ebay (I just don't want to list on ebay -- my member name there is "timgreer"). Thanks again.


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Unread 01-28-2009, 11:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Update: People have asked about trades. I'm really looking for money for my car restoration, but I MIGHT take a partial trade for a 70's Marshall amp head (50 or 100 watt, but it must have original transformers), but that's unlikely with the money I need (still, make an offer if you have one). Anything else, I'd not be interested in, I'm sorry to say. Thanks again.
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Unread 01-28-2009, 11:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

PS: This is "best offer", but I expect I'll likely get offers at or around the asking price.
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Unread 01-28-2009, 01:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Another update for people asking. Yes, I will ship anywhere, provided you pay the shipping costs, I don't mind shipping anywhere in the world. US would be easier, but I'm open to shipping out of country if you need it.

Also, as noted on the page with the description, I will meet someone or they can drive to me, if they are local or wish to make the trip (I'm willing to drive up to 150-200 miles in any direction if you are serious, where we can either meet half way or whatever).

Thanks.
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Unread 01-28-2009, 03:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Hi Tim

Sent you email.

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Unread 01-28-2009, 04:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Cool guitar! I have a white 74' aswell but, I think Kalamazoo continued into the 80's. I got 79' K.M. aswell, made in kalamazoo.
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Unread 01-28-2009, 05:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

They did continue making some guitars in the Kalamazoo factory, and it was indeed up until 1979, but this was usually for more specialty builds (as far as I'm aware anyway). The production in general did all move to Nashville, TN, but the Kalamazoo, MI factory did operate until late '79 (I don't believe it went into the 80's, at least not past 1980, but I certainly may be mistaken).
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Unread 01-28-2009, 05:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimGreer View Post

All original, other than the pickups and tuners.
You had me until here.
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Unread 01-28-2009, 05:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

tuners are a very common change, and it's not that hard to find a pair of original TTops. Even adding on for the pickups, IMO this is still a really good deal, for a blonde '74.

I don't think you mentioned that '74 is the first year for this color too.
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Unread 01-28-2009, 05:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwagar View Post
tuners are a very common change, and it's not that hard to find a pair of original TTops. Even adding on for the pickups, IMO this is still a really good deal, for a blonde '74.

I don't think you mentioned that '74 is the first year for this color too.
I'm funny about extra holes. I would have bought the Kernal's if it weren't for that.
FS: 1977 Les Paul Custom (White)
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Unread 01-28-2009, 06:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

If you like the maple necks and don't mind the paint being stripped from the neck, or the condition on the back, it wasn't a bad price by any means. It's not like mine is in mint museum condition either, even it this one is a bit more rare with the model, it's older and has a mahogany neck instead of maple -- but that doesn't mean it's more desirable to everyone for those reasons. Anyway, I've already had a decent offer on this that I may accept, but I'd absolutely not sell this if I didn't have to.

I looked for 2 years before I found this guitar and it was perfect, just what I wanted, and very difficult to find. Perhaps because I knew the exact woods, year and model (and color) I really wanted, I was able to look past the tuners and pickups. I don't pretend the lack of the second pickup isn't an issue for someone, but one other pickup for about $100-150 average, and $30-50 for original tuners and you're looking at a complete, original '74 20th anniversary white Les Paul Custom. Just saying that makes me wish even more that I could keep it.

PS: On that '77, doesn't it look like the wood on the top end of the headstock is separated a little, or is that just the way the image makes it look?
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Unread 01-29-2009, 09:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Very nice looking guitar! How much does it weigh?

Thanks, jd
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Unread 01-29-2009, 11:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Hey,

I emailed you!
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Unread 01-29-2009, 11:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

It weighs exactly 10 pounds to the ounce (I thought it was as little less, but I rechecked and it is 10 pounds).
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Unread 01-29-2009, 01:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

'60's camaros and Norlin Customs?? I admire your taste! Beautiful guitar. Everybody ought to have a weak spot for these. This puppy will sell.
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Unread 01-29-2009, 01:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Thanks. :-)
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Unread 01-29-2009, 04:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomo View Post
I'm funny about extra holes. I would have bought the Kernal's if it weren't for that.
FS: 1977 Les Paul Custom (White)

No extra holes on Kernal's, just changed the knobs. Looks good though.
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Unread 01-29-2009, 05:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

PS: $2,800 without the original pickup I would otherwise include (case still included, of course).
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Unread 01-29-2009, 06:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

I have a couple of questions.

When did you acquire it?



Was the guitar refretted? The missing nibs make me think it probably was sometime in it's life.







Here's another example of a White '74 LP Custom that is for sale here on the forum:







Case is not original, right?








I would think a '74 would have stickered T-Tops, not the stamped version. Are you sure this is original, or did it come with the guitar when you purchased it? It's also obvious that the cover has been removed at some point. In any case, the stamped T-Tops aren't worth much at all.



If anyone of thinking of buying it, I'd have Will Boggs look at it first. He's in Redding, and I'd trust his judgment.



Not to bust on your auction, but you are a new member, and I cannot PM you to ask the questions.

BB
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Unread 01-29-2009, 07:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-squared View Post
I have a couple of questions.

When did you acquire it?
About a year and 1/2 to two years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-squared View Post
Was the guitar refretted? The missing nibs make me think it probably was sometime in it's life.
I believe it was, and the guy I had gotten it from might have had it done. The fret job is excellent. If a guitar is played much over the years (35 in this case), it will eventually need a refret. Some people keep theirs like art work and don't play it much, which is cool, but if that was the case and condition of this guitar, I'd be asking double what I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-squared View Post
Case is not original, right?
That's correct, I don't believe it is the original case, but it's a very nice one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-squared View Post
I would think a '74 would have stickered T-Tops, not the stamped version. Are you sure this is original, or did it come with the guitar when you purchased it?
I didn't purchase this guitar new, I'm not that old. :-) I've owned early 70's Les Pauls and another 20th anniversary (which I also had to sell) and the pickups don't always have the sticker on them and I know them to be original. This pickup, I can't say was original to this guitar, but the lack of a sticker isn't an indication isn't not original to this year and model. They had stamped them before '74 and after, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-squared View Post
It's also obvious that the cover has been removed at some point. In any case, the stamped T-Tops aren't worth much at all.
Yes, the cover was removed at some point, as you can tell in the image. I'm unsure why you think they aren't worth much, I've never seen them go for very cheap. Also, they sound great (though I suppose that's open to personal opinion).

Quote:
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If anyone of thinking of buying it, I'd have Will Boggs look at it first. He's in Redding, and I'd trust his judgment.
I know Will and have been to his house, and while I don't know him well and he seems like a cool guy, I don't know him to be a Les Paul expert, so I fail to see how that is relevant to this sale. If you mean that you know him and he happens to be a trusted member of this particular forum, then I "get" that.

If you wish to check on me for reasons of trust and the detailed images aren't good enough, you're free to ask questions and for detailed images of any part of the guitar you want. If it's really about how long I've been a member _here_, on this specific forum, then you're also free to check the Harmony Central forums, where I've been a member for many years and am a participant, where I've sold, bought and traded gear (trading being the most risky) and never had an issue. You're also welcome to check rigtalk, gearzlutz and other forums. You can also check my feedback on ebay (username "timgreer") where I've done over 150 transactions (usually with high end gear -- no cheap crap) since 1991, where I have 100% positive feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-squared View Post
Not to bust on your auction, but you are a new member, and I cannot PM you to ask the questions.

BB
That's fine, and I'm not offended, but I am honestly confused about the mention of Will looking at it to serve as a means to add some trust or validity to this particular guitar I'm selling. Not that I care, and if someone wanted to only buy it if he looked at it I could certainly do that (even though it seems strange to go to him about it, as if he's a Gibson Les Paul expert or just could verify what I said in person). Again, I'd do that if someone really wanted, but I just don't agree that's a reasonable thing to suggest simply because I'm here on this forum (check around, if you wish).
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Unread 01-29-2009, 07:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Also just for the sake of the discussion about the pickups being stamped or not, a quick search here seems to show other people saying that they, too, have seen both stamped and stickered TTops on '74 Gibsons:

1974 20th anni. custom specs!!!!

Of course, I am fair and admit that is not proof because others have observed it as well, but that it is a common thing as far as I'm aware, and my other LPC 20th Ann. guitar was all completely original (every part) and it also had the original pickups stamped. So, to be clear about what I meant, I can't verify that is the case for this particular pickup, and it's not really possible to prove the date of manufacture, regardless of it's a stamp or sticker, unfortunately, but it makes sense and is common enough where I didn't question it when I bought this guitar.

I also had an embossed set from '72, and those were the only model that could have really been proven to be the date and model they were said (those were worth a lot of money, too, but the stamped TTops I had sounded so good that I didn't care and sold them). Again, the sound quality and tone being totally subjective, but I just mean it shouldn't add any suspicion about the pickup dates. It really, truly should be original, but there's always a 1% chance it's from a 75 or something, I totally admit that, because I can't prove otherwise (I just have no reason to believe otherwise).

I hope that provides some clarification. If at any point someone can provide information to the contrary that is indisputable, I am most willing to amend the description and am happy to learn a new fact, so please don't hesitate (I won't be offended at all). In the meantime, I'm pretty informed about this particular model most of all, as I spent a great deal of time researching exactly what I wanted before I even started looking, so I don't say this only to benefit the sale, and I could happily sell the instrument without the pickup (I already have offers to buy it separately, in which case I can drop the price on the guitar down to $2,800 obo). Thanks for listening.
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Unread 01-29-2009, 07:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Finally, I can provide a list of references, one's not shown on my ebay feedback, such as deals done over craigslist or Harmony Central, etc. I can also give you the reference of a celebrity guitarist by the name of Curt Mitchell (the guy that did the Learn to Burn and "In the Style of" cassette, VHS and DVD guitar lessons (over a million sold)), among others, whom are good friends of mine... though if anyone believes that Will Boggs is some authority or trustable and there's too much doubt about me, then if they are serious about buying the guitar, I have no problem taking it to him (he's only but a few miles from me, quite literally, and I wouldn't mind hanging out with him (or Greg, for that matter) again anyway). Cheers! :-)
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Unread 01-29-2009, 09:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Tim--I'm glad you're not offended by my questions, just clearing up a few things you don't mention in your write-up.

Will is a well-respected member of the forum, and if I was interested in the guitar I'd have him look just to ensure it is what you say it is; as you could imagine a lot of members with very few posts come in, offer guitars, and our folks get something altogether different than what they paid for.

About the T-Tops: Here's an interview with Lindy Fralin from the 1994 edition of Guitar Player:

"T-Top Patent Number Pickups -The T-Top patent number decal pickups followed the non-T-Top patent number decal pickups that followed the original PAFs. The patent number decal pickups were produced from 1962 until 1975. During 1975 Gibson stamped the patent number into the bottom of the pickup's base and these markings lasted until the early 1990s. "

That would lead me to believe that your pickup was manufactured in 1975 at the earliest. If you run the guitar's serial number you might be able to determine when the guitar was actually manufactured--I suppose if the guitar was manufactured late in '74, and sat around the factory until mid-'75 it could have gotten stamped T-Tops.

BB
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Unread 01-29-2009, 10:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

You might be right, since late 74 could indeed mean 75 pickups. I'll look into it more, because I know an original 74 20th I had was verified to be original (I got it from the original owner whom never changed anything). That could explain it.

Also, I understand where you're coming from. Will is a cool guy, and adding that trust and verification, especially with online deals, surely doesn't hurt (and I'm not opposed to it if that is what someone wants). After replying, I checked the site and saw the heavy involvement of Will here and associations with the different members and companies, so I better understand why that would provide the extra trust a deal might need from a new member. Sometimes it's a disadvantage being a new member and needing to (and rightfully so) earn the trust of the community. Thanks for your candor and input.

I thought I mentioned the fact it likely had a fret job (it must have) in the ad (you can see I went to great lengths to cover every tiny detail), but I might have omitted that, and will look and remedy it in the description if needed.
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Unread 01-29-2009, 10:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Cool man--wish I had the dough...I have a black '76 Custom, all original (I bought it in '82 or so). Always wanted a white one.
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Unread 01-29-2009, 10:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

I'm not kidding when I say I hate to sell this. I literally looked for a couple of years before I found one. The others were all sunburst, cherry or some color I didn't like a lot, and I wanted either a white or black. I knew the woods I wanted, and I played this model before and it was just so fast (before I ever played a LP, I thought they looked clunky and wasn't sure, though I liked the tone I was afraid it wouldn't play fast). So, when I played a good one and it was just silky smooth and so fast, I was sold.

I've always been a fan of Rhoads and learned all his songs note for note long ago, so the white was just natural to want. Then, I found that he actually played a '74 white anniversary. I know there's some controversy on exactly the year and model was for his LPC, but one of the thousands of pictures of him playing his favorite one showed the engraving of the Twentieth Anniversary on the 15th fret, so I was even more sold on the idea, since that was already the model I had made up my mind to get. I'll have to find that picture of him playing showing the engraving.

Ultimately, I plan to get this same exact guitar and model again when things are better financially. I just took an incredible beating in stocks the last year (in the tune of about $600K -- granted, it's only a loss if you take money out before it picks back up, but I needed some funds for a business and living expenses and it'll take years to pick up again). So, I am in a situation where I have to let my prized possession go. Oh well, I'll get another some day. Hopefully, whomever buys this will sell it back to me when I can buy it back (and it looks like I've got a buyer from the other day, but until we both agree on the offer and do it, it's not a done deal). Anyway, I'm getting depressed thinking about this. Luckily I have a lot of gear to still play, but the most desirable stuff sells the quickest, so this is it.
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Unread 01-29-2009, 10:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Dude--I don't have near the $$ to lose, but I still don't look at my investments or 401(k)...too depressing.

I have gear I can sell in a pinch...hopefully the time won't come.

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Unread 01-30-2009, 12:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Well, all you can do is move on. I try and not let it get to me and I'm still young, but I don't like the idea of selling things I've worked hard for, so I don't lose other things I've worked hard for. So, parting with the Les Paul to get my '67 Camaro RS conv. restoration paid off so I can drive and enjoy it, after nearly 2 years in the shop for a complete restore, is something I'm not all too torn up about. I'm eager to enjoy that. Hopefully I can hold onto it. Anyway, enough sad news, things will pick up, and I'll get this same guitar (maybe in some months, or maybe a year or two). I wish I had found this site earlier, speaking of. :-)
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Unread 01-30-2009, 09:11 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

as with everything Gibson, nothing really changes on Jan 1st. The stamped plate TTops were a '75 change, but I think we've seen a few '74s with them.
and they are worth, IMO, slightly less than the stickered TTops, but still quite a lot.
You don't have to run the serial number on this guitar to know it's a '74, it has the inlay, trans tenon, mahogany neck.
That refret job looks exactly like the refret on my '74, done years ago (before I bought it), but a lot of guys hated the fretless wonder frets Gibson was using. A refret is quite common on these, and almost a required upgrade.

Before the crash, a clean original blonde '74 was worth approx $5500-6K and rising. Who knows what a real value is today, but I think Tim is asking a very reasonable price. I don't think I'd sell mine for that.

Because I own one, I'm very interested in them. Some notes:
- anniversary year (not all have the inlay, mine doesn't)
- Kalamazoo guitar
- trans tenon (aka modified long tenon), although a few show up later, this is really the last year prior to the change to short tenon.
- first year of this color
- last year of mahogany necks
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Originally Posted by reswot
A 50's Special is, IMO, the coolest guitar ever made.

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Unread 01-30-2009, 12:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: For Sale: 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary (Alpine white)

Just to note, I've heard some people say that all '74 Les Paul Customs were anniversary models, but they all weren't (just like all Les Paul Customs made in the same year as the 25th, 30th, 40th anniversary models weren't all anniversary models), but some anniversary models did lack the inlay, which is just confusing. so they did produce a lot of normal Les Paul Customs, along with the anniversary models.

I think asking Gibson (about the pickup) would help, even though sometimes they don't even know for sure, but yeah, the guitar is definitely a 74, and of course the serial numbers agree. The pickup, it's just too hard to tell. It could be original, because it did happen in some 74's, but unless it was original to this particular guitar, it's just impossible to say. I'll have to make that clear to the buyers somehow on the description (I had already updated the page yesterday about the fret job (which I thought I did mention) and pickup cover, so I just need to outline the information about the "original pickup" aspect, and that'll be hard to explain).
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