Les Paul Odyssey

[Hizzy]

So the journey begins into the mysterious world of the rank amateur home luthier. My name is Ryan and I am located in Canada so if you tune into my thread, you will probably hear me bitch about things like not being able to able to find nitrocellulose lacquer, how bad the service at Home Depot Canada sucks, and the lack of a decent guitar tools/parts supply in Canada. I will try to keep that to a minimum and perhaps be able to share some of the solutions I come up with when I can't find the stuff I would ultimately like to use.

Because of the fact that good Les Pauls are becoming harder to get and the desire to bump my forum postings number higher, I have decided to build a Les Paul copy in my home workshop/ my half of the garage and document it here. It seems I can justify collecting more guitars with the wife if I build them myself event though I am running out of wall space to hang them on in the music room.

Over the weekend I built some templates from the Eastern Maple Tops plans and 1/2" MDF. I am the kind of guy that likes to put his hands on something before drawing cut lines on blanks and going to town on them. (temps.jpg)

I also tested out some nice Italian shaping rasps from Lee Valley on a MDF headstock template and moved on to doing the same to my Bulldog Bodies upgraded neck. I then moved on to gluing the Bulldog Bodies neck to the body. I purchased this kit to study the parts but was disappointed that the angle of the neck was a product of the angled tenon and not the mortise. Although it was good value for the money, it was more of a lesson in pointing out things I was going to do different (and better) in my build. (bulldog.jpg) I bought this before I even heard about Eastern Maple Tops but I was sure glad to hear about them as Tom's plans and an actual carved top did more for me than the kit. I will experiment with finishing on this kit and take it to the office so I have something to practice on at lunch hour. I also decided Titebond III is good but I will be using hide glue for my own build.

Next, I used Tom Bartlett's awesome templates to draw out my body on Sipo as there isn't a whole lot of Honduran mahogany in the correct thickness at the local wood shop without doing a two piece. Mine is from Stew Mac as well as the neck blank that is pictured. I spent some time sanding two adjacent sides flat where the fingerboard will lay and the side I will trace out the rough neck. I was going to sand down the other two sides that are pretty rough but most of that will be gone except for the side of the headstock. I traced some of the cavities on the front of the body just to see where they would line up and do not intend to rout them all the way through as shown in the picture. (blanks.jpg) I would like to do some extra chambering on my next home build, but for this one it is going to be solid with the exception of maybe a few holes drilled in the body opposite the electronics cavity.

Anyway, I didn't take too many pics in this installment as it was pretty basic stuff that has been seen before. Next up is the routing of the wire channel and then the rear cavities, but I am probably going to wait until my edge sander arrives so I can match the templates to the backside of the guitar. See you next time.

[Hizzy]

Installment 2. Last week I couldn't wait any longer for my new sander so I decided to give the spindle sander a workout and put the finishing touches on the sides of the body with some sanding blocks for autobody repair. They work pretty good as long as you don't put so much into it that you bend them and there goes your flat/square sand job.

Next I used a forstner bit to rough out the control and switch cavities as well as the wiring channel. I got a bit carried away with the bit for the wiring channel since I had traced the lines from the Eastern Maple Tops templates which are designed to use the 5/8" out diameter bushing so I will know for next time to just do a line down the middle.

Again I used the Eastern Maple Tops templates which are awesome. For the wiring channel I used a 5/8" outer diameter bushing with a 3/8" diameter 1 and 1/4" long straight cut bit and routed a 13/16" deep groove ( from the Stew Mac plans - bit more room). For the switch and control cavities, I used the same bushing with a 1/2" diameter and stepped it down so there was about 3/8" of mahogany left that will get routed through once the top is on.

Then, I used the template for the very shallow cover plate recesses. I don't have a 1/2" diameter 3/8" long top bearing bit as Tom suggests so I used a 1/2" diameter 1/2" long top bearing bit which was kind of dicey as the bearing made contact with only about 1/16" of the template. Never the less I just went slow and took out 3/32" deep of wood around the cavities.

Finally, I cleaned up the back a bit so that all will be left to do is sanding after the filler is applied and then set up a 3/16" diameter round over bit on my router table.

Next step is to obtain some hide glue and glue the Eastern Maple Top onto the mahogany.

Things I learned: Latex bench mats are awesome for keeping your work in place when you can screw the template into a face that will be covered up or routed out. Stay well inside the template line when roughing out material to account for the bushing. Turn the router on and let the newly applied oil spin off before having your piece anywhere near the router table. Plunge routers rule as does building your own guitar! Time to stop building tonight and get back to actually playing a damn guitar.

[schoeftinger]

Looking good so far!
Good luck!

-Tom

[Hizzy]

Originally Posted by schoeftinger

Looking good so far!
Good luck!

-Tom

Thanks Tom!

[schoeftinger]

How heavy is you Sipo?
... I'm thinking about using it for my 2nd prototype guitar (which will hopefully be cooler than the first shot )

[Hizzy]

Originally Posted by schoeftinger

How heavy is you Sipo?
... I'm thinking about using it for my 2nd prototype guitar (which will hopefully be cooler than the first shot )

I would be more than happy to weigh it for you. Did you want a weight on a blank or the guitar body that I did the work on?

I was paying $114 per blank from Stew Mac guitar supply in the US and found 13" wide Sipo for $8.75 a board foot at the local wood shop. Needless to say, I can buy three body blanks locally for the price of one from the states not including duty. It seems a bit lighter than the wood from the US too.

I am still toying with the idea of putting in a mirror image chamber of the control cavity on the other side of this guitar to lighten it up but really I wanted to see what this one would sound like with as solid a body as possible. Maybe the next one will be a lighter version.

Regards,
Ryan

[schoeftinger]

Originally Posted by Ryan K

I would be more than happy to weigh it for you. Did you want a weight on a blank or the guitar body that I did the work on?

I'd be happy if you could measure the guitar body (without maple top).
I need some figures for comparison...

Originally Posted by Ryan K

I am still toying with the idea of putting in a mirror image chamber of the control cavity on the other side of this guitar to lighten it up but really I wanted to see what this one would sound like with as solid a body as possible. Maybe the next one will be a lighter version.

Actually, I've done something similar.
Unfortunately, I did this before taking flicks and starting my build thread :-(

If you think about adding cavities, there's other options too:
(1) hollow the body like in Scott's thread:
A Cloud 9
(2) add a lot of weight-relief holes, like Gil does in his thread:

1959 Les Paul Build - Page 7 - Telecaster Guitar Forum
I believe Brian may did something similar with hes Red Special too...

[Hizzy]

Wow, that guitar looks cool, like swiss cheese!

I weighed my sipo guitar body as it appears in the pictures (without the neck mortise of course) and it is 5.2 pounds. I don't know if that is heavy or light as I don't have anything to compare it to except built guitars.

Peace,
Ryan

[schoeftinger]

Sorry, can't provide any figures yet.
I'll post "my body weight", as soon as the thing is cut!

However, there's a Sipo thread around here...
Sipo "mahogany"

[Hizzy]

I think this guitar is going to be a 10 pounder when all is said and done. I also think I am going to save the Eastern Maple Carved Tops top for another build as I am really jonesing for a quilt top and have stockpiled a bunch of maple over the last few months off of eBay.

[Hizzy]

Wow, hide glue is a PAIN IN THE ASS! Tried to glue two bookmatched pieces over the weekend and did all the preparations with the hide glue. I thought I had it just right (was threading like honey back into the glass container at 140 F) and spread it onto the wood edges and it immediately solidified. There was no way it was going to glue together without leaving a gap between the halves. Now that I think of it, I seem to recall someone recommending that the two pieces of wood to be glued should be heated before applying the glue but I'm not sure. Perhaps it was the brush I used to try and spread it; could have been stiffer or a plastic spreader and it would have thinned the glue out a bit more.

Anyway after screwing up the join by trying to joint the halves with a table router and having to resort to intense block sanding to eliminate any space, I said to hell with hide glue and broke out the Titebond III.

[nuance97]

You should definitely heat the wood a little first, but even if you do you still have less that a minute to spread the glue and clamp it up before the glue gels.

[schoeftinger]

I'm currently using out-of-the-box hide glue:

Amazon.com: Franklin 5012 Hide Glue: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Franklin 5012 Hide Glue: Home Improvement

It doesn't gel nearly as fast as normal hide glue.
I cannot complain about stability or tone either...

rock on,
-Tom

[Hizzy]

Originally Posted by schoeftinger

I'm currently using out-of-the-box hide glue:
Amazon.com: Franklin 5012 Hide Glue: Home Improvement

It doesn't gel nearly as fast as normal hide glue.
I cannot complain about stability or tone either...

rock on,
-Tom

I saw that stuff on the net but have never seen it here in town. I may try to order some from Amazon, I can't see there being any trouble shipping it as it isn't volatile.

Thanks again Tom!

Ryan

[Hizzy]

Last weekend, I went through my hoard of top wood and after much contemplation, I chose a piece of big leaf maple with a nice wide flame... always wanted a Paul like this. I have whined about the hide glue episode in my previous posting and settled on joining the halves with Titebond III. After a bunch of work planing the top wood down from 1" to 5/8" with the home-built router sled, it was time to start thinking about gluing the top onto the body. I found out that Titebond Original is the choice of luthiers (who don't use hide glue and don't want to chance thermoplastic creep with Titebond III) so it was off to the woodshop to pick some of that up.

I was bored and thinking about the weight of the guitar so I took a forstner bit and gutted out some material on the lobe opposite the control cavity. Then I used my router along with the EMT template and made a mirror image of the control cavity. I guess this will be a chambered Les Paul and I can't wait to hear what it sounds like. I wrote a little message in the chamber dedicated to one of our little friends that we had to put to sleep at the vets last weekend in case you're wondering what that is all about.

Next, I got the clamps out and even drilled some holes for screws to hold the top in place so it wouldn't shift and went balls to the wall with the Titebond. I must have put just the right amount on as there was some squeeze out but not a total mess. It was a bitch to get the first few clamps on as I had wood blocks underneath and on top to keep the surface from being marred.

Well, that's about it for this one.

[schoeftinger]

Hot top! - Any updates?

[Hizzy]

Originally Posted by schoeftinger

Hot top! - Any updates?

Hi Tom, thanks for the comment on the top.

I have done a little work on her the past couple of days. Nothing too interesting. I wasted a load of time with a profile gauge and an Eastern Maple Carved Top trying to come up with how to carve the top. In the end, when I compared them to the Stew Mac plans, they were fairly similar except for a couple of areas. I transfered the measurements to a piece of mylar, contoured it up and then used a 1/16" punch to make kind of a stencil so that I could transfer the contour lines onto my top. Just kind of in limbo right now as I am trying to decide what the best way for me to do the carve is. Router or by hand... was thinking of making a set of templates for each step but it will be another big consumption of time for contours that I may not like or use again.

Regards,
Ryan

[emoney]

Good thread so far. Keep it up! (i get bored easily so this needs to entertain me)

[Hizzy]

Thanks emoney!

Ok here's an update, albeit a pathetic one.

Most of the weekend was spent messing with grain filler and wood dye on my Bulldog Bodies test subject. I took neutral Stew Mac waterbased grain filler and added about 1/8th of a 2oz bottle of the concentrated wood dye. When they say squeegee that shit off, they mean squeegee it off as it is a bear to sand off with 320 grit (took all f'ing night). It was very warm here, so it was drying way faster than the 3-5 minutes they suggest. After that was sanded down just so the pores were filled, it looked nice but too light as I didn't add any darker fresco powder (mainly due to the fact that I don't know what the hell it is or where to get it). I planned on dyeing the back with cherry anyhow.
Next, I made two batches of wood dye with the Stew Mac cherry red concentrate and Lee Valley Tool's Methyl/Ethyl alcohol Lacquer Thinner. First one was 1 cup of alcohol to 1 tablespoon of dye and the second was the suggested ratio of 1 cup alcohol to 1/2 tablespoon of dye. The thinner one was just short of shite and too lite and the second one was what I applied to the face of the test subject in a few heavy coats. Waited a night and the next day, sanded it down with 320 grit so that the darker figuring was contrasting. Somehow, the dye I concocted turned more of an orange over night, or perhaps it was the copious amount of alcohol fumes I had been breathing, but I added a squirt of red dye to redden it up a bit before the final dying of the front. Anyway that story is to be continued after I get a hold of some lacquer. I am going to use Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil and GunstockWax to replicate the necks on my Ernie Ball Axis and Brian Moore... those necks feel good to me and don't get gunked up after playing lots.
Sunday I made my templates for routing out the steps on my actual project guitar and it was a time consuming slog. Hope they work out good so all the work is not in vain, and they may be used on the next project. The last shot is a blurry pic of the contours on my body. I imagine the carve will happen next weekend.

[Hizzy]

Time to play catch up. Two weeks ago, I got up the nerve to start planing the top of my guitar. I monkeyed with the router sled I made some time ago and finally got it set to a 4.4 degree incline. Biggest pain in the ass yet but it was cake from then on. I used a 1/2" diameter straight router bit and made some test cuts to see where I had to put my clamps on the side rails of the sled so that I wouldn't cut a 4.4 degree angle into the top past the front edge of where the pickup plane of 1.2 degrees is supposed to start. I was shitting bricks when a tear-out occurred on the left corner of the top where neck joins the guitar but since I was taking shallow cut increments, by the time I was to correct depth, it had disappeared. It was good practice to feel what it like when it happens and I was able to hone my skills at finding the tiny chunk that came out although I hope I don't have to use this skill later on in the build (like when it is time to cut the binding channel).

[Hizzy]

Next, I messed around with the sled again and lucky for me with the large nuts I used to raise and lower the threaded rod that adjust my incline, 1.2 degrees was the smallest angle I could get the rails lowered to. I then proceeded to plane the top from the portion after the neck backward in small increment cuts. I knew the top was a bit off of perfectly flat as indicated by the arc shape of the planed surface towards the bottom of the guitar, but this will be taken care of when I do the carve.

[Hizzy]

Neck mortise was next on the agenda. First, I gutted the pocket out with a forstner bit to save some router bit life. I marked out the depth that I was going to cut with the final router pass to get an idea of the buffer I would leave so the router could give me the 4.4 degree incline for the tenon to lay on. I then took some double sided tape for turning wood on a lathe and stuck it to the 4.4 degree angle on my guitar and propped the rear portion of the template up with some wood blocks and a thin strip of MDF. Trying to get the backing of the top portion of the tape is quite the task but I used an exacto knife to pry a little corner up... still it was tricky, like trying to circumsize a gnat. Then I made use of the Eastern Maple Tops template, a 3/4" outer diameter bushing, 1/2" diameter straight bit, and completed the mortise. The template did not move at all with the double sided tape. I tried to follow proper routing direction, however, climb cutting seemed to work better than conventional direction which was chewing the front edges up a bit at the mouth of the mortise. The red specks towards the top of the guitar are from a lapse in attention and the forstner bit giving me a bit of a love bite on my right index finger. STOOPID!

[Hizzy]

Pickup cavities were next. Again, most of the material was gutted out using a forstener bit, keeping in mind to not take out too much and leave enough wood in the bottom of the cavity for the router bit to make the 4.4 degree angle. This time, I used the EMT template for the pickup cavities and taped it to the 4.4 degree planed surface with double sided tape and stuck some blocks to the back of the guitar and a thin strip of MDF towards the middle so everything was stable. I made use of a 3/8" diameter bit for a CNC cutter as it was the only bit I could find with a 1 and 1/2" long cutter length and a 5/8" outer diameter bushing.

[Hizzy]

To complete the front cavities, again double sided tape was used to fix the EMT template for pickup legs to the 4.4 degree planed area on the guitar top, along with the blocks and thin MDF to keep the template from teetering back toward laying flat on the bottom of the guitar top. The 3/8" diameter 1 and 1/2" CNC bit was used and it liked to chew the hell out of the corners where the legs met the pickup body cavities. I would like some tips on how to do these without worrying about how hairy rough it leaves these corners. I was trying to climb cut them, but it didn't seem to make a difference what direction I took with the router, it wanted to leave them slightly chipped. No worries, they will be under the pickups and rings anyway but it still bugs me.

[Cpt_Gonzo]

Coming along nicely.

What trussrod are you going to use? 2-way and a straight rout or a simple one-way with a bowed rout?

[Hizzy]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Gonzo

Coming along nicely.

What trussrod are you going to use? 2-way and a straight rout or a simple one-way with a bowed rout?

Hey Gonzo, thanks for the comment.

Not sure what I am going to use as I have one of each in my parts stock. I am leaning towards using the one-way truss rod with a bowed rout for this first build. I have already cut out the rough neck but have not updated the build thread with my progress there.

Take care,
Ryan

[schoeftinger]

Originally Posted by Ryan K

Wow, that guitar looks cool, like swiss cheese!

I weighed my sipo guitar body as it appears in the pictures (without the neck mortise of course) and it is 5.2 pounds. I don't know if that is heavy or light as I don't have anything to compare it to except built guitars.

Peace,
Ryan

Hi Ryan,

sorry for the late (yet promised reply)!
I've been recently swiss-cheesifying my Page LP prototype (just a prototype no "iwannaplaythisthinguntilidie" build) and put the body on the scale.
Both SG and LP are about 2.2 kg (mahogany only - without maple top).
SG Diablo Replica

The bodies are built from Sapelli mahogany (much heavier than Hondo or Sipo) but the resonance is pretty impressive...

I don't have any figures for comparison.
Is 2.2kg heavy for an LP body (without top)?

Rock on!
-Tom

BTW, any build updates, Ryan?

[Hizzy]

Hey Tom, Thanks for the info!

I have been building when I can and have backlogged a bunch of photos, slacking off on the updates (sorry). I went on vacation so that cut into my build. Enough excuses, I will post an update this week sometime.

[Hizzy]

Wow, time to play catch-up. Too much has happened in the last little while so some of my info or steps may be a little fuzzy. I feel like asking this thread to be renamed to the "JAFLPB" thread... Just Another F###ing Les Paul Build, as there are so many other builds that are providing more info and better steps.

I had enough of the body and moved on to the neck. I used a sipo neck blank from Stew Mac which is a few shades darker than their sipo bodies. I wish the damn wood would match a little better Stew Mac. Anyway, I first used my side view neck template based on the Eastern Maple Tops plans to trace the outline and cut out the rough neck with the band saw. I then smoothed out the surfaces with my edge sander. Then I block sanded the fingerboard surface and made sure the sides were parallel to wach other and square to thetop of the headstock and base where the tenon would be made. I then used a table saw to cut the truss rod channel. I am using the HotRod truss for this one as I am too lazy/skeerd to attempt the curved channel. Since I cut the channel all the way through, I glued a filler strip into the base and cut/sanded it down so the rod would be held where it is supposed to be. I followed the instructions that a filler stick was not needed so hopefully that doesn't bite me in the ass later.

My next task was to cut the tenon into the base. The first attempt at this using a gents saw for the angle where the neck meets the body resulted in a poor fit. So, unfortunately I am embarrassed to say, that neck met its demise as I tested how strong Les Paul type necks are by grabbing it by the tenon and smashing the headstock repeatedly against my garage floor. I got that out of my system and will never indulge in that kind of asinine behavior again when building a guitar as it was a real bummer. The second time, I rigged up a jig on my router table and an incra mitre and cut the tenon and angles using a straight cut bit. I went a little too deep on the first pass but the angle was spot on and the join between the neck and body was much better this time! I have since glued some thin wood to the deep passes and there are no voids towards the top of the tenon.

[Hizzy]

Better do another one as this is going to take a while to catch up.

Next, I glued the ears to the headstock with the leftovers from the first neck I destroyed... at least the wood won't go to complete waste!

While that was drying I went on to have some fun with the old Dremel and the fingerboard. I chose an ebony board for this build from Stew Mac which won't be dyed with the black leather dye, pre slotted and two sets of small rhombus inlays as I love the way it looks. I love the split square with lines look even more but that one will have to wait for the next build. I traced the inlay outlines on the fingerboard and then went to work with the Stew Mac Dremel base which is very cool. I should probably have left a bit more space so it would be easier to get the epoxy filler between the wood and the inlays, but this proved to be a challenge in later steps.
I just used G2 Epoxy with no color to cement the inlays in first and let that dry overnight. Then, I used the black furniture powder mixed into the resin of G2 epoxy and then added the hardener. When it was dry I was worried because it looked really glassy and very unlike wood, but after sanding it down, it blended very well with the ebony.

I'll be damned if I can't find any pictures of the fingerboard while I was sanding it down with my radius block! You will see the fingerboard in the next segment where I am doing my first fret job and sucking only so slightly at it!