Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior

GooCart · 03-08-2010, 07:35 AM

Hi guys,
Here's a Rhino screen dump of a original '63 Jr. I'm working on right now. I've been using the Microscribe digitizer for the job and I really like it compared to the laser scanning experiment I had with the '53 GT. The tolerance are approx 0.2 mm and I'd call it enough since I'm double checking everything with the digital calliper.

Here it's just the body but everything will be there, down to the smallest detail, the that's what makes it interesting for me, 100% accuracy and 100% original.
I've compared this to a newer SG and I found that it differ quite much, I don't know if they all are individual or if the design differ from year to year, I guess it's a mix of both.

This file and many others will be available for download in 3dm, Step and Iges for reasonable prices from Eastern Maple Carved Tops as soon as we've worked out all the details.

I have a access to a bunch of other guitars that I'll be digitizing, here are some of them,
'78 Hamer Sunburst (IMHO the greatest guitar ever)
'59 Gibson MelodyMaker
'56 Gibson Les Paul Junior SC
and some vintage Fenders.

The files will be sold as is, meaning that I will do no custom changes such as changing neck angle, P90 to humbucker etc.

I'd like to hear your thoughts about it, if you had access to a CNC, what guitars or parts would you be interested in, 'bursts excluded?

MRJ · 03-08-2010, 07:39 AM

Would you consider selling any plans for these? I don't have access to a cnc, but would love to have the dimensions on these guitars.

w666 · 03-08-2010, 07:47 AM

Excellent work! I wish I had seen this before I started my SG build. Indeed there is a shortage of information about SG designs.

I'm no expert, but there are many variations of the basic SG design. Yours is amongst the 1st generation SG, distinguished by the box neck joint which joins at the 22nd fret, and more aggressive carving than later years, as best as I can tell. I suspect that these early 60's bodies were all hand shaped, and thus all are slightly different.

I'd be very interested in 2D files when you are finished.

GooCart · 03-08-2010, 07:53 AM

Creating the 2d plan can be done within Rhino without any problem. The problem is for me to sort out how much information the user need, how much data to delete before you loose the accuracy you have in the 3d file.
Drawing a accurate and detailed 2d plan are actually way to much job for me so I've decided just to offer the 3d files.
You wouldn't believe how many hours (days, weeks) I sat with the generic '59.

ihavenofish · 03-08-2010, 09:07 AM

GIMMIE!!!!

hahaha

this is one shape i wont/cant sell as a kit, so i dont mind doing an exact replica on the cnc for me. the plans found online are way off though. i actually hand made my own sg jr, in short scale with an undersize body. i laser scanned it with our nextengine, but the scanner didnt really give a useful result (hates wood grain). might try again one day. cant sell it either though. gibson is quite happy (and rightful) to sue anyone selling anything resembling and SG.

hows the microscribe? i never used it personally, but my friend runs a scanning service and used to have them way back when. his problem with them has been calibration and precision. they dont compensate well for the fact that the whole system flexes. you end up with a model thats got a skew. the laser is dead on precise, but makes terrible geometry. bah! cant win

GooCart · 03-08-2010, 09:20 AM

The microscribe is a neat tool, but you can go way of if you're not careful. I always digitize everything at least two time, checking it manually with the calliper.

I like the laser scannning. We use it a lot here at the office. Say that I'm designing a ice hockey helmet, then the laser is perfect if I want to test it with some various heads before we do the 3d printing.

MRJ · 03-08-2010, 09:34 AM

I don't know anything really about cnc files so I'm going to ask a dumb question. Is it possible to print full size pictures from cnc files? If I were to purchase one of theses files would they have any kind of measurements? Or are they strictly designed to be used with cnc machinery only? If there is a way I could use the files to get the measurements I need than I would love to purchase them.

GooCart · 03-08-2010, 09:47 AM

If you have access to rhino you could print the views and details 1:1. Beside that you also can examine all the details in the 3d file, measuring what you need and so on. I think you can download a trial or evaluation copy of Rhino.

MRJ · 03-08-2010, 09:55 AM

Cool. That's what I need to know. What kind Fenders you're talking about? I know a few people that would be interested in those also.

nuance97 · 03-08-2010, 09:57 AM

I'd love to have a really accurate plan for a '50's Stratocaster!

If you ever do decide to make those I bet you'd sell a lot of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRJ

Would you consider selling any plans for these? I don't have access to a cnc, but would love to have the dimensions on these guitars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GooCart

Creating the 2d plan can be done within Rhino without any problem. The problem is for me to sort out how much information the user need, how much data to delete before you loose the accuracy you have in the 3d file.
Drawing a accurate and detailed 2d plan are actually way to much job for me so I've decided just to offer the 3d files.
You wouldn't believe how many hours (days, weeks) I sat with the generic '59.

GooCart · 03-08-2010, 10:07 AM

I'm always on the search for new guitars to digitize. The job takes a couple of weeks so the owner have to be prepared to that and it's not that easy to find suitable candidates.
But I'm working on a couple of 50's and 60's Strats and Teles, hopefully I'll get to measure some of them.

dante_tx · 03-08-2010, 10:50 AM

RAHAZ · 03-08-2010, 11:27 AM

Nice work! Ever since seeing this:

YouTube - jace everett - bad things

I've been pondering adding a '63 Jr. to the "build list".

Gothika777 · 03-08-2010, 11:41 AM

This thread sounds pretty cool. U wouldn't happen to know what the shape of the heel is on the les paul jnr sc and what the neck cross-sections are (want to finish the 3D model r started)?

The baron of norsworthy · 03-08-2010, 12:07 PM

Only took 4 minutes before asking for plans-lol

GooCart · 03-08-2010, 03:48 PM

Hey RAHAZ, thanks for the link, that was cool. I love the True Blood intro because of the song.

BCRGreg · 03-08-2010, 07:14 PM

Pelham Blue rocks.

expo · 03-10-2010, 03:11 AM

Good idea

GooCart · 03-10-2010, 06:23 AM

I've completed the digitizing/3d modeling and this is how it looks. These early SG's are really cool, I wouldn't mind building one.

Today I'm receiving a pre CBS Precision bass as my next project and after that I'm doing a '62 strat, it's going to be interesting to see how much it'll differ from the plans that are floating around the Internet.

MRJ · 03-10-2010, 06:42 AM

decoy205 · 03-10-2010, 08:26 AM

If I didnt know id think those were real photos. You are highly skilled man. that is amazing! Did you work on Avatar??

jtmullet · 03-10-2010, 09:05 AM

Looks amazing when do you expect the files to be available for purchase also will they inlude the neck?

GooCart · 03-10-2010, 09:33 AM

This Jr will be available pretty soon and yes the neck and fretboard are included with correct dot sizes and alignment. I also include the cover plate, TRC and the pickguard. I haven't decided what to do with the pickup cavitiy. It's kinda tricky to route the angled cavity with a CNC, it's not impossible but I know that quite many CNC operators don't want to mess with angled planes. It's not that much job for the end user to remodel the cavity to a CNC friendly angle though. I'd like to leave the model 100% original.

Polaris white isn't that bad either!!

RAHAZ · 03-10-2010, 11:07 AM

Man, These look great!

alk-3 · 03-10-2010, 12:07 PM

I agree Magnus, leave the model 100% accurate and if someone wants to they can change it to suit their needs.
They look amazing!

ihavenofish · 03-10-2010, 09:16 PM

yum. that looks great!

Pepito · 03-13-2010, 10:25 AM

Very nice!! Good work on the model and renders!!
Can't wait to see one of those come to life.

SG Lou · 03-13-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GooCart

Polaris white isn't that bad either!!

Damn.............

Looks as good as my 63 Jr !

GooCart · 03-13-2010, 04:29 PM

Wow, that's way to cool!! So you have one of those, I'd love to have an original. This Monday we'll cut three or four bodies, I'll have one with a humbucker!!
Just because I can

Rhubarb Red · 03-14-2010, 07:49 AM

If I didn't know any better (as I've seen what Magnus did with modeling the carved top of a burst and how awesome that looked) I would SWEAR I was looking at pics of real guitars. Laying on a carpet? And slightly out of focus? I'd be completely fooled. Wow!

03-08-2010, 07:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Hi guys, Here's a Rhino screen dump of a original '63 Jr. I'm working on right now. I've been using the Microscribe digitizer for the job and I really like it compared to the laser scanning experiment I had with the '53 GT. The tolerance are approx 0.2 mm and I'd call it enough since I'm double checking everything with the digital calliper. Here it's just the body but everything will be there, down to the smallest detail, the that's what makes it interesting for me, 100% accuracy and 100% original. I've compared this to a newer SG and I found that it differ quite much, I don't know if they all are individual or if the design differ from year to year, I guess it's a mix of both. This file and many others will be available for download in 3dm, Step and Iges for reasonable prices from Eastern Maple Carved Tops as soon as we've worked out all the details. I have a access to a bunch of other guitars that I'll be digitizing, here are some of them, '78 Hamer Sunburst (IMHO the greatest guitar ever) '59 Gibson MelodyMaker '56 Gibson Les Paul Junior SC and some vintage Fenders. The files will be sold as is, meaning that I will do no custom changes such as changing neck angle, P90 to humbucker etc. I'd like to hear your thoughts about it, if you had access to a CNC, what guitars or parts would you be interested in, 'bursts excluded? simon_62 likes this. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-08-2010, 07:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
MRJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: West End, NC Posts: 1,189 Thanks: 90 Thanked 66 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Would you consider selling any plans for these? I don't have access to a cnc, but would love to have the dimensions on these guitars.

03-08-2010, 07:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
w666 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,561 Thanks: 22 Thanked 35 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Excellent work! I wish I had seen this before I started my SG build. Indeed there is a shortage of information about SG designs. I'm no expert, but there are many variations of the basic SG design. Yours is amongst the 1st generation SG, distinguished by the box neck joint which joins at the 22nd fret, and more aggressive carving than later years, as best as I can tell. I suspect that these early 60's bodies were all hand shaped, and thus all are slightly different. I'd be very interested in 2D files when you are finished. __________________ "Life is like a box of bees......"

03-08-2010, 07:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Creating the 2d plan can be done within Rhino without any problem. The problem is for me to sort out how much information the user need, how much data to delete before you loose the accuracy you have in the 3d file. Drawing a accurate and detailed 2d plan are actually way to much job for me so I've decided just to offer the 3d files. You wouldn't believe how many hours (days, weeks) I sat with the generic '59. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-08-2010, 09:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
ihavenofish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,039 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior GIMMIE!!!! hahaha this is one shape i wont/cant sell as a kit, so i dont mind doing an exact replica on the cnc for me. the plans found online are way off though. i actually hand made my own sg jr, in short scale with an undersize body. i laser scanned it with our nextengine, but the scanner didnt really give a useful result (hates wood grain). might try again one day. cant sell it either though. gibson is quite happy (and rightful) to sue anyone selling anything resembling and SG. hows the microscribe? i never used it personally, but my friend runs a scanning service and used to have them way back when. his problem with them has been calibration and precision. they dont compensate well for the fact that the whole system flexes. you end up with a model thats got a skew. the laser is dead on precise, but makes terrible geometry. bah! cant win

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03-08-2010, 09:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior The microscribe is a neat tool, but you can go way of if you're not careful. I always digitize everything at least two time, checking it manually with the calliper. I like the laser scannning. We use it a lot here at the office. Say that I'm designing a ice hockey helmet, then the laser is perfect if I want to test it with some various heads before we do the 3d printing. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-08-2010, 09:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
MRJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: West End, NC Posts: 1,189 Thanks: 90 Thanked 66 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior I don't know anything really about cnc files so I'm going to ask a dumb question. Is it possible to print full size pictures from cnc files? If I were to purchase one of theses files would they have any kind of measurements? Or are they strictly designed to be used with cnc machinery only? If there is a way I could use the files to get the measurements I need than I would love to purchase them.

03-08-2010, 09:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior If you have access to rhino you could print the views and details 1:1. Beside that you also can examine all the details in the 3d file, measuring what you need and so on. I think you can download a trial or evaluation copy of Rhino. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-08-2010, 09:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
MRJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: West End, NC Posts: 1,189 Thanks: 90 Thanked 66 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Cool. That's what I need to know. What kind Fenders you're talking about? I know a few people that would be interested in those also.

03-08-2010, 10:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior I'm always on the search for new guitars to digitize. The job takes a couple of weeks so the owner have to be prepared to that and it's not that easy to find suitable candidates. But I'm working on a couple of 50's and 60's Strats and Teles, hopefully I'll get to measure some of them. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-08-2010, 10:50 AM	#12 (permalink)
dante_tx Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior

03-08-2010, 11:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
Gothika777 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ringwood, England Posts: 843 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior This thread sounds pretty cool. U wouldn't happen to know what the shape of the heel is on the les paul jnr sc and what the neck cross-sections are (want to finish the 3D model r started)?

03-08-2010, 12:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
The baron of norsworthy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 843 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Only took 4 minutes before asking for plans-lol

03-08-2010, 03:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Hey RAHAZ, thanks for the link, that was cool. I love the True Blood intro because of the song. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-08-2010, 07:14 PM	#17 (permalink)
BCRGreg MLP Vendor Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lemoyne, PA Posts: 11,282 Thanks: 320 Thanked 1,913 Times in 257 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Pelham Blue rocks. __________________ Cool guitars, extreme repairs and brutal honesty. www.bcrmusic.com http://www.youtube.com/user/unkagreg

03-10-2010, 03:11 AM	#18 (permalink)
expo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: germany Posts: 519 Thanks: 23 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Good idea

03-10-2010, 06:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior I've completed the digitizing/3d modeling and this is how it looks. These early SG's are really cool, I wouldn't mind building one. Today I'm receiving a pre CBS Precision bass as my next project and after that I'm doing a '62 strat, it's going to be interesting to see how much it'll differ from the plans that are floating around the Internet. __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-10-2010, 06:42 AM	#20 (permalink)
MRJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: West End, NC Posts: 1,189 Thanks: 90 Thanked 66 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior

03-10-2010, 08:26 AM	#21 (permalink)
decoy205 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The land of concrete shoes Posts: 6,067 Thanks: 374 Thanked 80 Times in 23 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior If I didnt know id think those were real photos. You are highly skilled man. that is amazing! Did you work on Avatar?? __________________ http://bosv.bandcamp.com/

03-10-2010, 09:05 AM	#22 (permalink)
jtmullet Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Looks amazing when do you expect the files to be available for purchase also will they inlude the neck?

03-10-2010, 09:33 AM	#23 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior This Jr will be available pretty soon and yes the neck and fretboard are included with correct dot sizes and alignment. I also include the cover plate, TRC and the pickguard. I haven't decided what to do with the pickup cavitiy. It's kinda tricky to route the angled cavity with a CNC, it's not impossible but I know that quite many CNC operators don't want to mess with angled planes. It's not that much job for the end user to remodel the cavity to a CNC friendly angle though. I'd like to leave the model 100% original. Polaris white isn't that bad either!! __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-10-2010, 11:07 AM	#24 (permalink)
RAHAZ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 427 Thanks: 7 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Man, These look great!

03-10-2010, 12:07 PM	#25 (permalink)
alk-3 MLP Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Guelph Ontario Posts: 1,412 Thanks: 36 Thanked 240 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior I agree Magnus, leave the model 100% accurate and if someone wants to they can change it to suit their needs. They look amazing! __________________

03-10-2010, 09:16 PM	#26 (permalink)
ihavenofish Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,039 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior yum. that looks great!

03-13-2010, 10:25 AM	#27 (permalink)
Pepito Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Very nice!! Good work on the model and renders!! Can't wait to see one of those come to life.

03-13-2010, 04:29 PM	#29 (permalink)
GooCart Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 1,413 Thanks: 11 Thanked 91 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior Wow, that's way to cool!! So you have one of those, I'd love to have an original. This Monday we'll cut three or four bodies, I'll have one with a humbucker!! Just because I can __________________ Magnus Melkersson, Sweden

03-14-2010, 07:49 AM	#30 (permalink)
Rhubarb Red Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bushey, Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 258 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Digitized '63 Les Paul Junior If I didn't know any better (as I've seen what Magnus did with modeling the carved top of a burst and how awesome that looked) I would SWEAR I was looking at pics of real guitars. Laying on a carpet? And slightly out of focus? I'd be completely fooled. Wow!

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