"camille" small build

[GreaseBox]

Or make a water slide....

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Just my 2cents....Mini humbuckers would be a excellent option for this build

Peace,
Ken

Something like this...................





I have pictures of the routing process that I will post later since I'm behind the 8 ball on this. For "Unknown" reasons I had to take a break and get to Kansas city for....................






Uknown Hinson. Incredible guitar player. Got back at 3:00 this morning and I'm not used to that anymore so it's slow starting today[/QUOTE]



This is all just soo AWESOME!!!

You rock dude!

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Just had an Idea that would make my life a little easier...........

I know the Les Paul logo is silk screened onto the headstock to be authentic
Since this is a build of another feather ,so to speak, is there anything wrong with me cutting the "Camille" that I'm putting on the headstock out of vinyl (I have a cutting plotter) and putting it on before the clear. I would apply the clear thick enough to allow for sanding smooth. I've done it before on automotive applications.

Just wondering..............

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

Or make a water slide....

The water slide idea may not work in this case unless you have the ability to print using opaque ink (which most printers cannot do). Unfortunately, if using a water slide against a black background (which I'm assuming you're doing), normal printer ink will virtually disappear when you try to do this...believe me, I've tried. If you were making the headstock light colored, then using a water slide decal is a lot easier.

The vinyl should work, but I'd test it first to make sure that the lacquer doesn't melt it. Let me offer another suggestion, which is how I put my Less Tall script onto my headstocks. Since you have a cutting plotter, you could make a vinyl stencil with the design you want instead of a vinyl decal. Then lay the stencil onto the headstock, spray it with gold spray paint, lift up the stencil, and voila, you have something that looks just like a silk screened design. Here's what my headstock looks like using this method:




Frank

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by pinefd

The water slide idea may not work in this case unless you have the ability to print using opaque ink (which most printers cannot do). Unfortunately, if using a water slide against a black background (which I'm assuming you're doing), normal printer ink will virtually disappear when you try to do this...believe me, I've tried. If you were making the headstock light colored, then using a water slide decal is a lot easier.

The vinyl should work, but I'd test it first to make sure that the lacquer doesn't melt it. Let me offer another suggestion, which is how I put my Less Tall script onto my headstocks. Since you have a cutting plotter, you could make a vinyl stencil with the design you want instead of a vinyl decal. Then lay the stencil onto the headstock, spray it with gold spray paint, lift up the stencil, and voila, you have something that looks just like a silk screened design. Here's what my headstock looks like using this method:




Frank

I agree Frank but an Alps printer can do it (gold, silver, black, white, etc.). Buying one for a one time use is not cost effective but there are people on Ebay who will take your artwork and make you a whole sheet of decals for like $20.

That being said, I like your idea Frank about making the stencil and using gold paint. That would give a far better end result as IMO, paint or ink is always better than a sticker! Franks idea gets my vote!!!

Rock On!

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

I agree Frank but an Alps printer can do it (gold, silver, black, white, etc.). Buying one for a one time use is not cost effective but there are people on Ebay who will take your artwork and make you a whole sheet of decals for like $20.

That being said, I like your idea Frank about making the stencil and using gold paint. That would give a far better end result as IMO, paint or ink is always better than a sticker! Franks idea gets my vote!!!

Rock On!

Thanks Casey. I had actually looked into getting one of those printers myself (but had since forgotten what they were called), and they are quite expensive...so I scratched that idea. Still, if you can find someone who does have one of them, even if it's on-line, it makes for a good alternative.


Frank

[Ole'Lefty]

Geez-I'm dense. Thinking about a little girl and water-slides and I am thinking water park. Doh.

Walley-what do you think an old f--t should do about a cute young(mid-30's) blonde, eager to ride out the last (dangerous-as you know even in a 34 footer) fall salmon charter on Lake Michigan(nuke thermocline) but claims she won't fish-I think once that rigger clip snaps and she sees the first Chinook fought in, she'll cave. So, is she worth the risk? Pretty, smart,ornery, eyes that sparkle when she smiles-two honorable sons raised as a single mother-and unshakeably loyal.Fascinated by guitar building. Well? Yea or Nay? Thanks, OldLucky Lefty

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

The water slide idea may not work in this case unless you have the ability to print using opaque ink (which most printers cannot do). Unfortunately, if using a water slide against a black background (which I'm assuming you're doing), normal printer ink will virtually disappear when you try to do this...believe me, I've tried. If you were making the headstock light colored, then using a water slide decal is a lot easier.

The vinyl should work, but I'd test it first to make sure that the lacquer doesn't melt it. Let me offer another suggestion, which is how I put my Less Tall script onto my headstocks. Since you have a cutting plotter, you could make a vinyl stencil with the design you want instead of a vinyl decal. Then lay the stencil onto the headstock, spray it with gold spray paint, lift up the stencil, and voila, you have something that looks just like a silk screened design. Here's what my headstock looks like using this method:




Frank

Frank................... I don't know what to say,............ Other than I'm a moron for not thinking of that. It's perfect, I won't have to build up the laquer near as thick to sand smooth.

Thanks once again!!

[monsterwalley]

Thanks for the tip on the water slides. I'll definitely look into the ebay
idea in the future. I'm pretty strapped for time on this project as you know.

Thanks buddy!

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

Geez-I'm dense. Thinking about a little girl and water-slides and I am thinking water park. Doh.

Walley-what do you think an old f--t should do about a cute young(mid-30's) blonde, eager to ride out the last (dangerous-as you know even in a 34 footer) fall salmon charter on Lake Michigan(nuke thermocline) but claims she won't fish-I think once that rigger clip snaps and she sees the first Chinook fought in, she'll cave. So, is she worth the risk? Pretty, smart,ornery, eyes that sparkle when she smiles-two honorable sons raised as a single mother-and unshakeably loyal.Fascinated by guitar building. Well? Yea or Nay? Thanks, OldLucky Lefty

Lefty, YES, without a doubt. If you get her on the boat and out there, you will have to fight her to the pole after she see's the first one reeled in. Don't lose em at the net though. If you've been out before you know what I mean.

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Frank................... I don't know what to say,............ Other than I'm a moron for not thinking of that. It's perfect, I won't have to build up the laquer near as thick to sand smooth.

Thanks once again!!

No problem! Actually, I do this after all the lacquer is on, so the painted Less Tall script sits on top of the lacquer, just like the silk screened Les Paul script does on production Les Pauls. But I assume you could do it either way...and either way, you should practice on scrap first.


Frank

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

No problem! Actually, I do this after all the lacquer is on, so the painted Less Tall script sits on top of the lacquer, just like the silk screened Les Paul script does on production Les Pauls. But I assume you could do it either way...and either way, you should practice on scrap first.


Frank

Thanks again! This is a big time saver!!

We used to do a lot of silk screening at our shop when I started there 25 years ago. Since then we sold most of the stuff off and primarily stick with our highway signs. I got film positive made and made a screen frame. I can salvage some old silk out of a few remaining screens for a little one. But It's just another step to put me behind. I'll probably get around to doing the "LP" logo on my first build with a silk screen but this one doesn't need to be.

Thanks a million!

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Thanks for the tip on the water slides. I'll definitely look into the ebay
idea in the future. I'm pretty strapped for time on this project as you know.

Thanks buddy!

Best thing is, you probably have everything you need in your shop! (for the stencil I mean)

[Ole'Lefty]

I knew you would reassure me. And that guitar for the little girl(I am dad of one daughter)-what a precious possession it will be for her-it will speak your love for her every time she plays or even looks at it. Closest i came was building the best sprint kart I could for Sarah. After she was knocked out and slightly burned we had the talk-sold the kart-put it toward a good(Oh, My Lord, is that scary)oboe;slightly dented the price.O'L

[FF_Pedals]

Frank, how did you get the dot in the A ?

The lettering looks great.

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by FF_Pedals

Frank, how did you get the dot in the A ?

The lettering looks great.

Thanks! The place that did the stencils for me was able to do a very detailed stencil. And they used material with an adhesive backing, so the stencil was lightly adhered to the headstock. After I shot the gold paint, I removed the main part of the stencil, and then had to remove all the little individual pieces that formed the detail, like the dot in the "A", the loops in the "L"s, etc. The adhesive in the stencil actually left a little sticky residue that I had to carefully remove after the paint dried.

[ex-nihilo]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Thanks! The place that did the stencils for me was able to do a very detailed stencil. And they used material with an adhesive backing, so the stencil was lightly adhered to the headstock. After I shot the gold paint, I removed the main part of the stencil, and then had to remove all the little individual pieces that formed the detail, like the dot in the "A", the loops in the "L"s, etc. The adhesive in the stencil actually left a little sticky residue that I had to carefully remove after the paint dried.

That was my question too.... BTW, what kind of place makes stencils like that? I wouldn't even know what kind of business to look for.

Sincerely, Scott

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by ex-nihilo

That was my question too.... BTW, what kind of place makes stencils like that? I wouldn't even know what kind of business to look for.

Sincerely, Scott

A sign company or a body shop that can produce "spray mask"...

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

A sign company or a body shop that can produce "spray mask"...

Casey is correct. I made a spray mask for a person here a while back to use on their build. I am not sure if it would work on something that small though. I am afraid the adhesive would be too agressive when it comes to removal on something that fine. I would be afraid of doing damage trying to "pick" it off if that makes sense. I need to give it a test. I am looking for another material to work on smaller objects though.

[ex-nihilo]

If the stencil was ridged enough, I suppose you could stick to fabric a few times to decrease the stickiness of the adhesive.

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by ex-nihilo

If the stencil was ridged enough, I suppose you could stick to fabric a few times to decrease the stickiness of the adhesive.

The problem with that I think is pulling "fuzzies" off of the fabric onto the adhesive side leaving a hairy edge so to speak, also the release or transfer tape to transfer the vinyl isn't very tacky so you might risk losing thinner stroked letters and the "holes" onto the material.

I'm sure there is something out there that fits the bill. The stuff I have might also. I just haven't tried it on something that small yet. I'll see if I can't give it a shot this afternoon if the boss aint lookin.

[monsterwalley]

Also, When you say "rigid enough" , this isn't rigid. It's just like the vinyl used on car lettering, window lettering etc.... it's just designed to be used as a paint mask so it's a bit cheaper than regular graphic vinyl. It can also only be used once.

[iplaythisgame]

Heres a good waterslide supplier. I've had him make me some custom decals. He's fast and does a really good job. He has an alps printer and probably has plenty of stock les paul scripts if thats what your looking for.

Email him if you want to talk to him though. He doesnt answer his pm's over there much.

http://reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic...hlight=#338634

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Casey is correct. I made a spray mask for a person here a while back to use on their build. I am not sure if it would work on something that small though. I am afraid the adhesive would be too agressive when it comes to removal on something that fine. I would be afraid of doing damage trying to "pick" it off if that makes sense. I need to give it a test. I am looking for another material to work on smaller objects though.

The company I used for the stencil (Best-Decals.com, Your One-Stop Decal-Shop), used a special "stencil material", which is supposedly different from the standard vinyl that they normally use for their normal decals. I thought the adhesive on this stencil material was quite aggressive, and thought that their normal decal material might work better. I'll try and dig one of my stencils up (one time only use, BTW) and take a photo of it so you can see what it looks like...except I just remembered that my computer is dead and I don't know if I'll be able to upload pics from my camera to my wife's computer. Again, what I had to do was, after applying the paint, I removed the decal right away, then let the paint dry. After allowing the paint to dry thoroughly, I removed the adhesive residue with this stuff: Formby's, being careful not to remove the paint at the same time. This is why you need to practice on scrap first.


Frank

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

The company I used for the stencil (Best-Decals.com, Your One-Stop Decal-Shop), used a special "stencil material", which is supposedly different from the standard vinyl that they normally use for their normal decals. I thought the adhesive on this stencil material was quite aggressive, and thought that their normal decal material might work better. I'll try and dig one of my stencils up (one time only use, BTW) and take a photo of it so you can see what it looks like...except I just remembered that my computer is dead and I don't know if I'll be able to upload pics from my camera to my wife's computer. Again, what I had to do was, after applying the paint, I removed the decal right away, then let the paint dry. After allowing the paint to dry thoroughly, I removed the adhesive residue with this stuff: Formby's, being careful not to remove the paint at the same time. This is why you need to practice on scrap first.




Frank

That helps Frank. I think from looking at their site I know what material they are using. I'll order some up and try it.

I did try out the spray mask and it seemed to work good. I did it using the scaled "camille" i'm putting on the headstock. I just sprayed to much paint instead of a few mists "in a hurry" and got too much build up. I peeled it up too soon and got some stringing but left the holes and peeled later and they came up crisp. I had no residue either. I know for a fact that if I used our regular vinyl I wouldn't have any residue.

All in all I think this will work great, just need to pay attention to the spray application ie: light mist coats on the small detail stuff.

[monsterwalley]

Here is the first test I did with the mask I had on hand. Normally It is used for larger stuff , but I think it will work.

first cutting on plotter...


then "weeding" This is the difficult step on small lettering with thin strokes. To get the lettering out without lifting out the holes with it.



cover with transfer tape, Low tack.....



applied....



Sprayed, but I rushed it and instead of misting light coats it got a heavy wet one, oops......



I removed the vinyl a tad early and left "strings" of paint so I left part of it to peel after the paint tacked up a bit. If I would have misted light coats I don't think this would have happened.



peeled after tack and you can see it's nice and crisp around the "C" since I waited for that area. Pretty thick though.



I think it will work fine though just need to make sure and mist the paint in dry light coats. I would still like to find a lower tack mask though. This doesn't leave residue but, You have to dig in a bit with the exacto to get it started during removal.

[monsterwalley]

Back to the guitar building..

I promised Frank I would show what I did to mount the babybuckers.

First had to make a template to make the router template

I've never used router bushing before, so I needed to make a template to compensate for the thickness of the bushing. I just traced the ring of the pickup and added the bushing thickness then srewed scraps of wood down and routed out the template.



Then made the real template



I did a practice run on some mahogany I had laying around





I left a decent gap all the way around. I can't remember off hand now but I just "eyeballed it". I didn't want it too tight after I have finish build up, but also don't want the Grand Canyon around it either. We'll see what happens after the finish.

Using carpet tape after lining everything up I stuck the leading edge down and propped up the bridge end. Then made sure to clamp the body down so no movement would occur. I must say I don't like the stress involved in these pickups. The full size humbuckers give you a little screw up room but these..... you mess up and yer toast. Also one thing I don't like about using the router bushing is your not 100% sure where your, I should say "my" starting edge of the route is going to be. What I'm saying is, with a pattern bit, you line the template up with your routing line, so when you start to route you immediately know where you are at. With the bushing you have a gap the thickness of the bushing plus you cant see past the bushing so you have to hope you got your measurements correct.





and the finished route to Gregs recommended 1" deep.



I was relieved to hit my wire channel perfect also


Then it was on to drilling and mounting the bridge studs.....






the ground wire before pressing bushings



and pressing bushings.......

[monsterwalley]

Then it was on to drilling for the input jack. that was stressful also, hell everything is stressful with me

I didn't have much wiggle room and was worried about tearing out the chambering on the inside of the control cavity and having it look like bad.





Then finally married the neck to the body.......







knocked the frets down to level.........



then covered the neck and body to give the frets a preliminary workout.












I just mocked it up and made sure I can set the intonation correctly. Tore it back down and am ready for final sanding and hopefully filled and painted this weekend

[MRJ5]

Great job!

Excellent understandable information and well presented and illustrated.

Not only is the guitar coming out great, but I feel as if I am sitting in on a class in the Camille Build School of Lutherie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love these build threads!

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by MRJ5

Great job!

Excellent understandable information and well presented and illustrated.

Not only is the guitar coming out great, but I feel as if I am sitting in on a class in the Camille Build School of Lutherie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love these build threads!

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Thanks

I am a loooooooong way away from Lutherie though maybe more in the classification of wood butcher right now I try though.

Thanks again

[Fletch]

Looks good, I love this thread...

fletch