"camille" small build

[monsterwalley]

Ok, I have a rough layout scaled to 84%. I know the bridge looks too close to the pickup ring but since its sitting flat and not elevated it makes it look too close.

A couple of questions:

To locate the bridge you 1/2 the scale length to the 12th fret then the other 1/2 to the bridge correct? When I do that I come up just shy of the center of the bridge but perfect on the high E side bridge post. That's what I come up with when I check it on catto's plans scaled down to 84%. Shouldn't it be to the center of the bridge?

Another question is, in this pic the pup rings look closer together than Franks. I guess Frank if your reading this do you see anything out of line with the layout?

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Shouldn't it be to the center of the bridge?

No... Treble Post.



and it looks good to me...

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Another question Frank....... In your opinion should I scale the chambering to the guitar or do you think I should leave the 1/2" at the bottom, and the sides as they are full size?

Yes, I would recommend going with the same 1/2" thickness at the bottom and sides. I wouldn't make the sides any narrower than that, for sure, because you want to make sure you leave a decent amount amount of surface for gluing the top to the back. Plus, taking away any more material may adversely impact the body versus neck balance.

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Ok, I have a rough layout scaled to 84%. I know the bridge looks too close to the pickup ring but since its sitting flat and not elevated it makes it look too close.

A couple of questions:

To locate the bridge you 1/2 the scale length to the 12th fret then the other 1/2 to the bridge correct? When I do that I come up just shy of the center of the bridge but perfect on the high E side bridge post. That's what I come up with when I check it on catto's plans scaled down to 84%. Shouldn't it be to the center of the bridge?

Another question is, in this pic the pup rings look closer together than Franks. I guess Frank if your reading this do you see anything out of line with the layout?

According to the Stew-Mac fret position calculator, the center of the treble side bridge post should be 10.404" from the 12th fret (assuming you're using the 22 fret 20.706" fret scale).

Keep in mind, that when you scale down any plan, there are going to be some things that look off, because you're using full size parts. That's why you just have to play around with the placement of parts a bit to get things looking "right"...even though there is no real right or wrong when you do this. To me, your pup ring placement looks fine. But one thing you may want to consider doing, is moving the switch out a bit; otherwise, it may look a bit crowded being so close to the fingerboard and neck pup ring.

BTW, are you also scaling down the neck/fingerboard width as well, or are you keeping it pretty much full size? Don't forget, that if you do decide to keep it full width, you'll have to play around with the horn and cutaway design a bit to get the neck to fit the design properly.


Frank

[Jared Evans]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Shouldn't it be to the center of the bridge?

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

No... Treble Post.

I actually thought it was to the center of the bridge as well.

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

No... Treble Post.



and it looks good to me...

Damn... answered to quickly! :face palm:

Frank's right 10.404" from 12th fret to treble post... a little more than half.

Sorry

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by Jared Evans

I actually thought it was to the center of the bridge as well.

I responded out of reading time and time again the the scales lengt is based off of the treble post...

[Jared Evans]

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

I responded out of reading time and time again the the scales lengt is based off of the treble post...

I believe you! I didn't mean for that to sound questioning. I was glad i read the post because I was under the same assumption. I'm just glad i haven't drilled the posts yet.

[GreaseBox]

Originally Posted by Jared Evans

I believe you! I didn't mean for that to sound questioning. I was glad i read the post because I was under the same assumption. I'm just glad i haven't drilled the posts yet.

Sorry dude, I didn't mean to sound snappy or anything, I just felt bad for posting before running the calculator for myself first... Hell I've built one of these and started another...

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

No... Treble Post.



and it looks good to me...

Thanks Casey! Makes me feel better

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Yes, I would recommend going with the same 1/2" thickness at the bottom and sides. I wouldn't make the sides any narrower than that, for sure, because you want to make sure you leave a decent amount amount of surface for gluing the top to the back. Plus, taking away any more material may adversely impact the body versus neck balance.



According to the Stew-Mac fret position calculator, the center of the treble side bridge post should be 10.404" from the 12th fret (assuming you're using the 22 fret 20.706" fret scale).

Keep in mind, that when you scale down any plan, there are going to be some things that look off, because you're using full size parts. That's why you just have to play around with the placement of parts a bit to get things looking "right"...even though there is no real right or wrong when you do this. To me, your pup ring placement looks fine. But one thing you may want to consider doing, is moving the switch out a bit; otherwise, it may look a bit crowded being so close to the fingerboard and neck pup ring.

BTW, are you also scaling down the neck/fingerboard width as well, or are you keeping it pretty much full size? Don't forget, that if you do decide to keep it full width, you'll have to play around with the horn and cutaway design a bit to get the neck to fit the design properly.


Frank

Yes I am using the 20.706" 22 fret scale.
I need to check out the stew mac fret calc. I just divided by 2 and got 10.353? Evidently there is more to it. I'm not questioning the 10.404 don't get me wrong. I just need to know why for own knowledge.


I did wonder about the switch placement. I know when it is in the carve it will probably look closer to the pup ring. I think I will move it out a bit.

As far as the fretboard... The lines on the template are actually full scale fret width and the horn has been modified to fit.

Thanks for your input Frank. It is very valuable to me and I probably wouldn't attempt this if it wasn't for your willingness to help. Hopefully This thread might return the favor to someone else and their small build.

[monsterwalley]

Ok, I see how the 10.404" came about. Total length from nut to closest bridge post for tunomatic..... 20.757" Nut to the 12th fret 10.353" so.... 20.757 - 10.353 = 10.404.

I guess thats all I need to know

[Akahito]

Just to chime in on the pickup ring thing, I'd love to see mini humbuckers on that little beast. And what pinefd said about the poker chip, I agree.
Nice build. Can't wait to see what comes out of it.

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by Akahito

Just to chime in on the pickup ring thing, I'd love to see mini humbuckers on that little beast. And what pinefd said about the poker chip, I agree.
Nice build. Can't wait to see what comes out of it.

I agree about the mini hums. In fact, I bought a set for a future such build. Although I'm considering buying another set, this time the Rio Grande Babybuckers, because they look so cool and get rave reviews:




Frank

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

I agree about the mini hums. In fact, I bought a set for a future such build. Although I'm considering buying another set, this time the Rio Grande Babybuckers, because they look so cool and get rave reviews:




Frank

Thanks Akahito, I never gave it any thought.

Frank, that looks like that could be the ticket. I'll have to check those out.

[monsterwalley]

Got a little start on things tonight. Here is some progress pics......

made my templates



here is the candidate



Routing



Final route



Chamber template



chambered



control cavity route



backside control cavity and switch cavity



Then RATS!!!!!



Literally, the last 1/4 second with the router routing the switch cover when I let my guard down. The bearing was riding high on my template and I let up just enough at the last minute to let the bearing ride up on top of my pattern. Combination of being tired and late at night. Pisses me off Bad!

Not sure what I want to do. I guess make the cover bigger and offset it enough to cover my bone. Any suggestions?


I didn't route for the wire cavity since I'm interested in the "baby buckers" I'm not sure what they need for passage so I guess I need to do some research.

[MRJ5]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Not sure what I want to do. I guess make the cover bigger and offset it enough to cover my bone. Any suggestions?

I would just route the opening slightly larger to include the slip and make a cover to fit the larger opening.

Great work on everything else

Good looking templates!

[GreaseBox]

Looks great!

Looks like it should be an easy fix on the router slip. Dude, you said cover your bone and I started to think you routed your finger off!

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by GreaseBox

Looks great!

Dude, you said cover your bone

Not the best use of words I guess


It is easy to just rout it bigger, I just hate to since the cover is already so damn big on the small body. If I could just have that 1/4 second back. I guess that could apply to a lot huh.......

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

I agree about the mini hums. In fact, I bought a set for a future such build. Although I'm considering buying another set, this time the Rio Grande Babybuckers, because they look so cool and get rave reviews:




Frank

I just ordered that set pictured. I think thats going to look kick butt!

I tried searching, and am still searching, Does the P90's use the same cable route as the humbuckers? I am anxious to get the top glued up and on the body, but am on hold till I find this out.

[TexasNate]

Why don't you shim up the bridge and intonate it, then drill the holes? i think ex-nihilo came up with that trick

that way you know you will have it in the right spot!

This is going to be a great gift for your daughter, an awesome idea.

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by TexasNate

Why don't you shim up the bridge and intonate it, then drill the holes? i think ex-nihilo came up with that trick

that way you know you will have it in the right spot!

This is going to be a great gift for your daughter, an awesome idea.

Not quite that far along yet............ That's what I did on my first build though. Are we on the same Page???

Yeh, I think she'll freak. I just hope it doesn't go to show and tell at school if you know what I mean

[monsterwalley]

Well, I kinda fixed it.......... Nothing along the lines of BCRGreg though. That neck repair is still amazing.

I tried to get the same area off of the original lumber
I used a razor and cut it to a depth thicker than the what is routed



Used a chisle and "popped" the piece out, then sanded the back flat.



Spent a bunch of time getting it to fit right.



Then glued it and re routed it.



I tried not to let any of the glue seep up the edge so I could pack it with mohagony dust or something. I wasn't worried about the strength on the side not having glue since it isn't structural but it's a mute point now. It was an invisible seam before I glued it. I wonder if I should leave it or try and scratch it out a bit with an exacto and try and use something to blend it or let it go altogether?

[pinefd]

It's coming along great so far! I think you'll be pleased overall with the chambering. And don't sweat that switch cover tearout...just make the cover a little bigger, as others have already suggested. And I'm looking forward to seeing how the Babybuckers work out for you! I wish they came in double whites...I'd be all over 'em!


Frank


Edit: I just saw your "fix" and it looks great! That's probably what I would have tried first too (actually, I think I've done that a couple of times myself in the past).

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by pinefd

! I wish they came in double whites...I'd be all over 'em!


Frank


.

Thats the first thing I thought! Wouldn't that be sweet......

[TexasNate]

Originally Posted by monsterwalley

Not quite that far along yet............ That's what I did on my first build though. Are we on the same Page???

Yeh, I think she'll freak. I just hope it doesn't go to show and tell at school if you know what I mean

Oh my bad, the reason I said that about the bridge is I saw that you guys were talking about scale length calculations up there^^^^ was just tryin to share the knowledge.

[monsterwalley]

Originally Posted by TexasNate

Oh my bad, the reason I said that about the bridge is I saw that you guys were talking about scale length calculations up there^^^^ was just tryin to share the knowledge.

Oh I gotcha............ After my router slip I kinda forgot about my scale length question earlier Nate. That part I was concerned with not having enough space between the full size humbuckers and not being too close to the bridge with the bridge pup. I think my problems are solved now going with the mini humbuckers. I agree with shimming the bridge during mockup and setting intonation to "nail" the location!!

[monsterwalley]

I've got a little more done. Not much, but progress.......

Neck roughed





body and top joined till death do them part.........

[GreaseBox]

Looking good Bro!!!!

[monsterwalley]

Made a little more progress on the body. Hard to find the time lately

Top flush routed to body





Topo lines roughed in



Binding channel and topo lines routed









I was too lazy to get pictures as I was making progress for a change.
My first build I used a block and 80 grit sandpaper to smooth out the edges of the rout. It really didn't take very long and was safer (for me anyway) than risking a chisel slip. I did the same thing on this build and since it was smaller It only took me an hour and half to rough it in. I then sprayed a guide coat on to make sure I get rid of the lumps and bumps and scratches.
I've done this on cars before but never thought about it on a guitar till ex-nihilo's first build. Works great!

Here's were it's at and hopefully tonight it'll be finished sanded and ready for the angle and mortise to be routed tomorrow







One thing I am having a hard time wrapping my head around is the neck angle. I am assuming it would be the same as a full size build right? It's a 20.7" scale, but the body was scaled to 84% So in other words my body/top thickness is 2". It shouldn't matter though should it? Or since the bridge will sit a bit closer to the neck joint would that mean I need a bigger angle?
I feel dumb right now

[pinefd]

Great question. When I did mine, I seem to recall going with around a 4.5 degree angle, but unfortunately, I can't tell you precisely, and I won't be able to measure the neck angle on mine for another week or so. Sorry.


Frank