Ask Roman ?

[single cut 54]

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[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

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ask me what??

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by RFR

ask me what??

Sorry Roman , Look at the bottom of page 2

[Roman Rist]

To my feeble memory, in 1960 the holes went all the way though, the same diameter as the ferrule. It is possible that some later 50s did this as well.
But 58 and 59s had the 2 sizes I was referring to in the earlier post.
As far as 58 and 59 Korina guitars, to my knowledge all Vs had the stepped drill set up, but explorers didn't. ( at least the ones I have seen)

I spoke with MAX today and he verified this, and is digging up pictures from his extensive burst library, photographed by him.

Right now, he is in away from his place but when he gets back, he'll send some to me.
Roman

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by RFR

To my feeble memory, in 1960 the holes went all the way though, the same diameter as the ferrule. It is possible that some later 50s did this as well.
But 58 and 59s had the 2 sizes I was referring to in the earlier post.
As far as 58 and 59 Korina guitars, to my knowledge all Vs had the stepped drill set up, but explorers didn't. ( at least the ones I have seen)

I spoke with MAX today and he verified this, and is digging up pictures from his extensive burst library, photographed by him.

Right now, he is in away from his place but when he gets back, he'll send some to me.
Roman

I've never seen a '58 /'59 Korina but I've seen '53 ,'54, '55 ,'56, '57,'58, '59
and '60 LP standards . They all had ''through holes ''without
exception.I've never seen a Gibson guitar with stepped holes, only Fender.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

I've never seen a '58 /'59 Korina but I've seen '53 ,'54, '55 ,'56, '57,'58, '59
and '60 LP standards . They all had ''through holes ''without
exception.I've never seen a Gibson guitar with stepped holes, only Fender.

Here we go Roman, a customers '59 headstock and my own '54 headstock,
both with bushings removed.










Not conclusive evidence ,I agree , but all I can supply at the moment.

Terry

[BCRGreg]

The MAJORITY of the 50's headstocks that I have seen have been stepped, with a slightly larger area that corresponds to the bushing diameter and a narrower hole through to the tuner. I could take apart all of my Juniors and show you guys, but I don't feel the need. I have also seen a few stragglers that were drilled all the way through, which is conceivable since old ladies were doing menial tasks like drilling holes. If one pushed the bit all the way through, they probably did all 6 to make it uniform. Fender, on the other hand, seems to have been a lot more rigid in their machine specs.

So my opinion is that there is no universal way that Gibson did it, and to look for one is a waste of time.

My opinion, do with it what you choose.

[single cut 54]

This is a '58 head stock I don't know it's origin ,but I've taken it from Bobbos gallery .This too has the through holes [11/32'' dia]. I have worked on roughly 20
genuine '50s Standards, Gold Top and Bursts, in the past two and a half years.Everyone has the 11/32'' diam hole through. The law of averages says
this must be the norm.



If anyone has pictures showing a genuine '50s Standard with the small
hole, counterbored for the bushings, can you please post them.I am
genuinely interested in seeing them .

[Sgt.Pepper]

I'd be really interested to see some photos of 50's Gibsons with stepped tuner holes. I just checked my measurements and of the 50+ Gibson guitars from the 50's of which I've personally taken detailed measurements, none of them have stepped tuner holes. I also just checked 6 various 50's Gibson which are in the local repair shop, and none of them have stepped tuner holes. The Juniors have smaller holes to accommodate the different bushings, but are still straight through holes. I'm really looking forward to learning something new by seeing these photos of stepped tuner holes.

[Roman Rist]

This is starting to turn into a "lets prove Roman wrong thread" give it a freaking rest.

[Roman Rist]

I don't claim to be a vintage expert. I have had a couple 50s instruments. And most of the stuff I have seen on my bench had grovers on it or the tuners did not get removed for inspection.

Most of what I have learned about vintage instruments is from MAX.
In working with him I have picked up a lot of info.

He has dissected more vintage instruments than most people, all in the interest of doing a accurate replica.

They must be pretty accurate considering the prices they go for.

He steps his tuners and says that Gibson did too.

When I get some pictures I'll post them, and if I am wrong, I am wrong.

You want to bust my balls for the next ten years, knock yourself out.

I got better things to do, like build guitars.

Hey If I'm wrong cool! it's a lot of work stepping the tuner holes.

[Sgt.Pepper]

Hey Roman, nobody's trying to prove you wrong, and everyone enjoys your posts but we are just adding to the pool of info. I find this stuff interesting, so checked some of the info I have. BCR Greg is pretty adamant about his opinion, but I have to say Singlecut54 has posted photos showing what he means, and I am looking forward to seeing some photos when you get them.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Pepper

Hey Roman, nobody's trying to prove you wrong, and everyone enjoys your posts but we are just adding to the pool of info. I find this stuff interesting, so checked some of the info I have. BCR Greg is pretty adamant about his opinion, but I have to say Singlecut54 has posted photos showing what he means, and I am looking forward to seeing some photos when you get them.

Well, singlecut 54 has been pushing this issue for two pages. It is not that big of a deal to me, but it seems to be to him to him.

I am curious as well, and am waiting for pics from MAX.

On this forum I have three purposes.

One, to learn. even an old dog can learn new tricks and get new info.

Two, to share info and help to inform others.

Three, to get interest in what I do.

I'm just a guy, more knowledgeable than some and less than others.

Roman

[single cut 54]

Roman , I don't want to ''bust anyones balls'' .Can I say that vintage guitars,
especially '50s LP standards, are my job and my passion. If there's something I don't know about them ,then I need to find out. I posted photos because who on this forum would take my word over RFR, BCR Greg and Max? To me ,this has been a discussion down the pub . I've said what i've said because I believe it to be true. If I've offended you then I apologize. If I've offended Greg, then I probably won't get my Rob Lawrence book , and I apologize to Him.
Terry

[Roman Rist]

Hey it's cool Terry. It's been a rough two weeks and I am a little uppity.

I just got word, amongst other crap, that a client is saying his guitar won't intonate...............WHAT? They leave my shop intonated!

Here is the guitar.



She has all the expensive Loyd Baggs electronics and was PERFECTLY intonated for 12s.

As i started digging into what could be up, he lets it slip that he has it strung with .09s. Oh my God! and he wonders why an acoustic, non adjustable bridge won't give him the proper intonation.

I will either talk some sense into him or charge him accordingly.


Roman

[BCRGreg]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Pepper

Hey Roman, nobody's trying to prove you wrong, and everyone enjoys your posts but we are just adding to the pool of info. I find this stuff interesting, so checked some of the info I have. BCR Greg is pretty adamant about his opinion, but I have to say Singlecut54 has posted photos showing what he means, and I am looking forward to seeing some photos when you get them.

Sgt.Pepper, you and Singlecut54 are more than welcome to continue this amongst yourselves. The thread is about Roman being kind enough to answer questions, and he has answered this one. I have given my opinion.

That being said, let's move on and you can start another thread about the subject. Or not.

[BCRGreg]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

Roman , I don't want to ''bust anyones balls'' .Can I say that vintage guitars,
especially '50s LP standards, are my job and my passion. If there's something I don't know about them ,then I need to find out. I posted photos because who on this forum would take my word over RFR, BCR Greg and Max? To me ,this has been a discussion down the pub . I've said what i've said because I believe it to be true. If I've offended you then I apologize. If I've offended Greg, then I probably won't get my Rob Lawrence book , and I apologize to Him.
Terry

Your suggestion that I would withhold a book from you because you and I have differing views is more offensive than anything you have said up to this point.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by decoy205

Awesome Roman. I'm going to play it tonight at practice to see how it feels. It should be at my house by the time i get home from work. Every single review of this guitar says the same thing about the balance issue so I'm trying to be prepared.

I don't have a countersink bit. But if it comes to drilling. Ill go pick up a small one.

It shouldn't mess with the neck joint right?

Thanks A LOT!!!

Back on topic.

Did you get the guitar yet?

A countersink is a cheap must have if you are going to have drill bits and a drill. you will find all sorts of uses for it.

It has been invaluable to me in preventing finish chips. I avoid using tape on finishes because the tape can do more damage sometimes..........such as lifting the very finish you are trying to protect.

I have not seen in person one of these ESP 7 strings yet, but it appears that at the heel of the body you are fine.
Roman

[decoy205]

Originally Posted by RFR

Back on topic.

Did you get the guitar yet?

A countersink is a cheap must have if you are going to have drill bits and a drill. you will find all sorts of uses for it.

It has been invaluable to me in preventing finish chips. I avoid using tape on finishes because the tape can do more damage sometimes..........such as lifting the very finish you are trying to protect.

I have not seen in person one of these ESP 7 strings yet, but it appears that at the heel of the body you are fine.
Roman

Hey Roman,

Yes I got the guitar and played it last night. Just as suspected the neck drops. So while playing its like your holding the neck up as you play. I also used a wide leather strap that grips my shoulder to lesson this effect but its uncomfortable.

The countersink drill bit actually makes the hole wider at the top? I never used one before. It would have to be pretty thin bit and shallow because the strap lock screw is very thin and short.

Thanks for the advice!

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by decoy205

The countersink drill bit actually makes the hole wider at the top? I never used one before. It would have to be pretty thin bit and shallow because the strap lock screw is very thin and short.

Thanks for the advice!

here is a picture of one.

[Roman Rist]

Later tonight I'll do a photo tutorial to make it easy.

[BCRGreg]

I cheat and use the phillips drill bit to chamfer the edge of the hole.

[decoy205]

Originally Posted by RFR

Later tonight I'll do a photo tutorial to make it easy.

Cool. That will help.

Here's the guitar:



Hopefully one day i'll have a Rist 7 string...