Just bough an Ibex plane from Stew Mac

[IceGator8]

I got the 10mm version. Will this be adequate for carving the top?

For those who have hand carved a top what is the best way to go about it? Any good tips?

[Mr Bones]

I've got the 28mm, the 18mm, the 12mm, and the 8mm. The 18mm is the only one I ever use. Period. The only time I've ever needed one of the other was the 12mm when I was carving my octave guitar. On that particular project, the 18mm was to big to carve the recarve at the waist. I think you may find the 10mm too small for carving an LP. The 18mm is perfect for this (though slow, and expect many blisters). I really need to put the others on ebay as the cost a fortune.

[IceGator8]

Originally Posted by Mr Bones

I've got the 28mm, the 18mm, the 12mm, and the 8mm. The 18mm is the only one I ever use. Period. The only time I've ever needed one of the other was the 12mm when I was carving my octave guitar. On that particular project, the 18mm was to big to carve the recarve at the waist. I think you may find the 10mm too small for carving an LP. The 18mm is perfect for this (though slow, and expect many blisters). I really need to put the others on ebay as the cost a fortune.

Good info. The package is in the mail so I guess I should order an 18mm. I should have asked before I bought!

Do you have any tips for doing the carving?

[IceGator8]

Oh and are you using the straight plane or the curved?

[Mr Bones]

curved.

This is not really the ideal way to carve an LP top, but it is still my favorite, because despite the really painful blisters you get (you will see what i mean), and the HOURS it takes to carve a top, there is something really calming about it. I know this sounds kind of kooky, but it actually lets you bond with the wood. You are spending so much time, slowly shaping the guitar. I think that is too cool, and won't do it any other way. I am doing this today as a matter of fact. Some pointers from my limited experience:

1) Listen to the grain of the wood. You will find that you have to find the direction that the wood will let you carve it at lots of different spots on the top. These can change as you go further down into the wood.

2) don't try to remove too much wood with each stroke. I prefer to set the blade to not try and hog off wood, but get nice clean cuts. As I get closer to the final shape, I set the bladed even higher (less cut) as this reduces the chance of tear out.

3) You are going to be tempted to think that you are near the end when your routed depth marks disappear around the edges (you have carved the edges down the the right level). In reality, you are about half way at this point, there is a lot more wood to be taken off "inside" the perimeter. On my first few tries I ended up undercarving the top. Don't underestimate the "dish" either.

Hope this helps.

[IceGator8]

I think I'll do part of it with a router laying out steps. Then I want to use the plane. However your explanation of bonding with the wood and the calming effect may influence me to do the carving by hand.

The original plan was to use a friends duplicarver but our schedules aren't meshing so
I figure that plan B is in order.

Is it better to work from the outside in or the inside out? My brain tells me to work outside in but my brain also told me to buy a 10mm straight bladed fingerplane.

[Ole'Lefty]

If you are going to try to get closer with the router, buy a good 3/4" bowl bit. It will get you closer, and that size works at partial cut depth settings.Mike T.

[Mr Bones]

Originally Posted by IceGator8

I think I'll do part of it with a router laying out steps. Then I want to use the plane. However your explanation of bonding with the wood and the calming effect may influence me to do the carving by hand.

The original plan was to use a friends duplicarver but our schedules aren't meshing so
I figure that plan B is in order.

Is it better to work from the outside in or the inside out? My brain tells me to work outside in but my brain also told me to buy a 10mm straight bladed fingerplane.

Outside in.

[WiEnRli]

Icegator, I did the same thing as you did. I ordered a flat 10mm ibex plane and I started carving, carving and carving...I'm up to about 6hrs of work by now. Don't really know where I'm at...I don't have a les paul to compare to, I'll probably go to the store today to check it out on a real one. But still I think I'm not doing too bad.

Dam Mr. Bones I started to see those depth marks going away. Now I should think I'm about halfway?! Any tricks on carving near the pickup areas, seems like I can't go deep enough.

Here's a link you might want to check for Ibex plane, cheaper than stewmac :
Pilgrims Projects: Luthier Supplies Fishman Transducers Seymour Duncan

[IceGator8]

Originally Posted by rottenlpcloner

If you are going to try to get closer with the router, buy a good 3/4" bowl bit. It will get you closer, and that size works at partial cut depth settings.Mike T.

Can you post a link to one of these? I've done a search and it looks like there are some choices.

[Mr Bones]

Originally Posted by WiEnRli

Icegator, I did the same thing as you did. I ordered a flat 10mm ibex plane and I started carving, carving and carving...I'm up to about 6hrs of work by now. Don't really know where I'm at...I don't have a les paul to compare to, I'll probably go to the store today to check it out on a real one. But still I think I'm not doing too bad.

Dam Mr. Bones I started to see those depth marks going away. Now I should think I'm about halfway?! Any tricks on carving near the pickup areas, seems like I can't go deep enough.

Here's a link you might want to check for Ibex plane, cheaper than stewmac :
Pilgrims Projects: Luthier Supplies Fishman Transducers Seymour Duncan

Yeah, it's a lot of work! You are about halfway, maybe a little less!

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by rottenlpcloner

If you are going to try to get closer with the router, buy a good 3/4" bowl bit. It will get you closer, and that size works at partial cut depth settings.Mike T.

Originally Posted by IceGator8

Can you post a link to one of these? I've done a search and it looks like there are some choices.

I'm not sure what kind of bit rottenlpcloner was referring to, but here's what I use:

[IceGator8]

Originally Posted by pinefd

I'm not sure what kind of bit rottenlpcloner was referring to, but here's what I use:

That's what I thought he meant. As it turns out I already have one of those.

Could you describe the technique of using one of these bowl bits?

[pvt]

Originally Posted by IceGator8

That's what I thought he meant. As it turns out I already have one of those.

Could you describe the technique of using one of these bowl bits?

I did this for the LP I built, but I did not use a bowl bit. A bowl bit should work even better.


You can move the wooden block back and this setup acts like a rabbetting bit to get this.



Be careful not to go too deep. I was pretty conservative with the depth of cuts I made.


I almost exclusively used the 10mm curved Ibex plane, and it did take a lot of time. I just did a rough carve for a 2nd LP using the 10 and 12mm planes, and it went much faster than the first guitar. If you have the Stewmac plans, make some photocopies if the top contour profiles, and use them to make some templates out of cardboard or maybe some 1/8" hardboard to check your carve.

[Ole'Lefty]

The bit shown is a bowl bit. And the adjustable rabbet guide is an excellent way to use it.I have an over arm pin router(actually 2) and with a stepped template it would carve a top nicely. I will try to add a pic.http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k6...DSC_0002-8.jpgthe bottom router is a 3.25hp Freud. I leave it in and put the guide pin in it. The router in the overarm is the good old 690.

[IceGator8]

Thanks guys! This is great information. Further question. It seems like no one really does the second angle for the pickup plane. Are you guys doing that?

[Mr Bones]

Ya, but you don't carve it in. I cut it right after I cut the neck angle cut. I cut the neck angle usually at 4º. While I have the angle jig out, I just mark a line where the neck pu mount starts and where the bridge is. I just adjust the angle of the jig until the router stops touching at those two points.

[IceGator8]

Originally Posted by Mr Bones

Ya, but you don't carve it in. I cut it right after I cut the neck angle cut. I cut the neck angle usually at 4º. While I have the angle jig out, I just mark a line where the neck pu mount starts and where the bridge is. I just adjust the angle of the jig until the router stops touching at those two points.

Interesting.

I would assume cutting the pickup plane after the neck angle would be better if you're going to hand carve the top. If you use the router trick with the rabbet jig wouldn't it be better to leave the top flat until you've made these cuts and then do the pickup plane? I could be wrong but it seems to me that having a large portion of the top flat would help keep the cutting depths accurate around the entire guitar. Hmmmm, decisions decisions.

[Mr Bones]

Originally Posted by IceGator8

Interesting.

I would assume cutting the pickup plane after the neck angle would be better if you're going to hand carve the top. If you use the router trick with the rabbet jig wouldn't it be better to leave the top flat until you've made these cuts and then do the pickup plane? I could be wrong but it seems to me that having a large portion of the top flat would help keep the cutting depths accurate around the entire guitar. Hmmmm, decisions decisions.

I think maybe you misunderstood me. I before I carve anything, I route the neck angle plane, then I route the pickup plane, then I start to carve.

[IceGator8]

No I didn't misunderstand. You hand carve your guitar tops so it would make complete sense to route the pickup plane prior to carving.

My point is that if I'm going to use the router to makes steps in the top prior to getting out the planes it would probably be best to save the routing of the pickup plane for later so that the top could sit as flat as I'm making the cuts with the router. Once the router cuts are made then I could route the pickup plane.

Of course I haven't done this before so I could be wrong. Feel free to set me straight if I'm not.

[Mr Bones]

Originally Posted by IceGator8

No I didn't misunderstand. You hand carve your guitar tops so it would make complete sense to route the pickup plane prior to carving.

My point is that if I'm going to use the router to makes steps in the top prior to getting out the planes it would probably be best to save the routing of the pickup plane for later so that the top could sit as flat as I'm making the cuts with the router. Once the router cuts are made then I could route the pickup plane.

Of course I haven't done this before so I could be wrong. Feel free to set me straight if I'm not.

Ahhh, It was me that misunderstood.

[bfcg]

Regarding the blisters: I found these other planes made by AMT that allow you to pull instead of push the plane. I have the 19mm, 14mm, and 9mm. Once the blisters get to be too painfull and to give them time to heal, I switch to the pull style and that is a totally different grip so I have new fresh meat for making new blisters.
Also made a few of my own. I cant find the link but I made a few convex planes fron some old cabinet scrapers and some scrap maple. Grind any size blade you want and these things were pretty easy to make and work extremly well.

[bfcg]

found the link
Toolmonger » Blog Archive » How To Make Your Own Finger Plane

[61LPSG]

Originally Posted by bfcg

found the link
Toolmonger » Blog Archive » How To Make Your Own Finger Plane

Thank you , this is just what I need. I did my first top with a plain old 1/2" chisel, and Surform (cheese grater), lol. Never again!
Alec