Stew Mac Plan Mistakes?

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Wow, I never realized that the original bursts didn't have that step!?!
That would sure make that neck joint a lot easier to make.

Thanks for that info!

Yeah, I kind of chuckle to myself when ever I see build threads with the step.
I've kept my mouth shut, I already give away too much info.

[GooCart]

I'm pretty sure I've got it completely wrong but isn't the heel cut parallel with the body? Thats how it looks on the '53 GT at least.



I've changed single cut 54 sketch so you se what I mean.

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by GooCart

I'm pretty sure I've got it completely wrong but isn't the heel cut parallel with the body? Thats how it looks on the '53 GT at least.



I've changed single cut 54 sketch so you se what I mean.

Yes, that makes sense (this, coming from a guy who always thought there was a step, though).

[decoy205]

Isn't the neck already at an angle and the tenon would go in straight to be parallel with the back? The neck on pg one of the thread has a straight tenon like the first drawing.

[Mr Bones]

the mortice is angled.

[ex-nihilo]

So, has anyone made a tenon without the step for their build? And how can a reissue and a VOS be VOS if they added a step?

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by GooCart

I'm pretty sure I've got it completely wrong but isn't the heel cut parallel with the body? Thats how it looks on the '53 GT at least.



I've changed single cut 54 sketch so you se what I mean.

I have removed more fifties Les Paul necks than I care to mention,I promise you the drawing that I made is correct.If you wish to do it your way then thats fine.

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

I have removed more fifties Les Paul necks than I care to mention,I promise you the drawing that I made is correct.If you wish to do it your way then thats fine.

I'm with single cut.
It is possible that the angle of the heel changed some what in the sanding process, but it SHOULD be at the same plane of the neck, not the body.

[pinefd]

Wow, so that would mean that the angle where the heel and the body meet is less than 90 degrees! That surprises me. But keep in mind that I have virtually no experience with vintage guitars.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by ex-nihilo

So, has anyone made a tenon without the step for their build? And how can a reissue and a VOS be VOS if they added a step?

Yes I build all my guitars without the step .The Gibson reissues are great guitars but as with the Stew Mac plan, the details are not an exact replication of their original 1959 Les pauls.To 99% of the Historic buying public ,these details do not matter.

[61LPSG]

Single cut, thanks for sharing. I wish I had known this a couple of months ago,. Next one will be easier. The funny thing is I almost did it the right way by mistake. It just seems a bit more beefy...not to mention easier.

[decoy205]

Originally Posted by Mr Bones

the mortice is angled.

so the angle comes from the route then? Ok. I'm just learning here. this is a cool thread.

[GooCart]

Thanks for your expertise single cut 54. This was news to me.
This is for sure a cool thread.

[single cut 54]

I realise these are poor photos that are taken in night light and that the ''square'' is only card but I hope this shows the ''under 90 degrees'' (approx 86 degrees) angle between heel and body. This is a customers 1956 gold top that is in for restoration

[69GTLP]

This is like having a picture Bible at you fingertips. Terry You are the MAN!!
Is the scale length on the Stew Mac plan accurate???

[Mr Bones]

So all the 50s gibsons have the heel at an angle?

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by Mr Bones

So all the 50s gibsons have the heel at an angle?

Yes they do Mr Bones.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by 69GTLP

This is like having a picture Bible at you fingertips. Terry You are the MAN!!
Is the scale length on the Stew Mac plan accurate???

Gibson used two scale lengths on '50s Les Pauls. 24 9/16ths'' and 24 5/8ths''

There appears to be no correlation between the years. I have two '54 GTops in my workshop that measure 24 9/16'' the '56 Gold top pictured above
is 24 5/8'' ,a 58 Burst that I'm restoring is 24 9/16th'' and in the past I've measured '59 and '60 Bursts with both of these scale lengths

[GooCart]

I just checked the '53 and now when I'm aware of it I can't understand that I've totaly missed it earlier. The angle of the heel is less then 90 degrees.

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

Yeah, I kind of chuckle to myself when ever I see build threads with the step.
I've kept my mouth shut, I already give away too much info.

Originally Posted by Roman Rist

AH, you gave it away. That's why my previous response was to PM me, I didn't want to publicly post how to do it.

Another trade secret bites the dust.

Ok Roman, come clean! What other little secrets are you hiding from us? You know we'll find out eventually...usually after it's too late...and then we'll be cursin' you for not spillin' the beans earlier. On the other hand, next time someone reveals yet another trade secret, maybe you should just play dumb (no comments please, Greg) so that we can't get mad at you! But Roman, because of all the great things you do, we'll forgive you this one time...but we need to see the rest of those trade secrets!


By the way, Terry, thanks for all the great info! This has turned into a very valuable thread, IMO.


Frank

[69GTLP]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

Gibson used two scale lengths on '50s Les Pauls. 24 9/16ths'' and 24 5/8ths''

There appears to be no correlation between the years. I have two '54 GTops in my workshop that measure 24 9/16'' the '56 Gold top pictured above
is 24 5/8'' ,a 58 Burst that I'm restoring is 24 9/16th'' and in the past I've measured '59 and '60 Bursts with both of these scale lengths

From a production standpoint that doesn't make sense that they would have two distinct different scale lenths on the same model guitars. That is really interesting. I mean seriously what were they smokin? So we know that the scale length listed on the plan is correct, as it is 24.562"

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by 69GTLP

From a production standpoint that doesn't make sense that they would have two distinct different scale lenths on the same model guitars. That is really interesting. I mean seriously what were they smokin? So we know that the scale length listed on the plan is correct, as it is 24.562"

Chris, I know what you mean but it gets worse.I wasn't going to mention this as it's very difficult to describe, but here goes.
The 24 9/16'' scale is only to the 12th fret, if you measure the fret spacings after that they correspond more closely to a 24 5/8 '' scale ,in other words two scale lengths on one board(I know it's Madness)
The 24 5/8'' scale length is again ,only to the 12th fret ,the frets thereafter are 24 11/16'' scale. I know this is crazy but I promise that it's true.

If anyone has a '50s guitar with a 24 9/16'' scale it will measure 12 9/32'' at 12th fret but
17.7 at the 22nd fret
similarly on a 24 5/8 scale guitar ,it will measure 12 5/16'' at the 12th fret and 17 3/4'' at the 22nd fret.

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

Chris, I know what you mean but it gets worse.I wasn't going to mention this as it's very difficult to describe, but here goes.
The 24 9/16'' scale is only to the 12th fret, if you measure the fret spacings after that they correspond more closely to a 24 5/8 '' scale ,in other words two scale lengths on one board(I know it's Madness)
The 24 5/8'' scale length is again ,only to the 12th fret ,the frets thereafter are 24 11/16'' scale. I know this is crazy but I promise that it's true.

If anyone has a '50s guitar with a 24 9/16'' scale it will measure 12 9/32'' at 12th fret but
17.7 at the 22nd fret
similarly on a 24 5/8 scale guitar the,it will measure 12 5/16'' at the 12th fret and 17 3/4'' at the 22nd fret.

Terry, my guitar tech, who is one of the best in the business (especially with neck and fret work), has been telling me this...and cursing about this...for years now. So I can relate.

[Mr Bones]

I guess my question is, why does that work?

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Terry, my guitar tech, who is one of the best in the business (especially with neck and fret work), has been telling me this...and cursing about this...for years now. So I can relate.

Thanks Frank, most folk think I'm nuts when I tell them.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by Mr Bones

I guess my question is, why does that work?

Mr Bones, all I can say is that I've been using these fret spacings for nigh on 20 years and my guitars play in tune all the way up the neck,but I can't answer your question.

[Mr Bones]

BTW, Terry, your input in this thread is greatly appreciated.

[Mr Bones]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

Mr Bones all I can say is that I've been using these fret spacings for nigh on 20 years and my guitars play in tune all the way up the neck,but I can't answer your question.

Haha, one more thing for me to needlessly worry about! Now I'm trying to think about how I can set up the cut the slots that way.

So, (thanks for humoring me) if i just switch templates after the 12th fret from the 24.562" template to the 24.625" template, I will get the correct spacing?

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by Mr Bones

Haha, one more thing for me to needlessly worry about! Now I'm trying to think about how I can set up the cut the slots that way.

So, (thanks for humoring me) if i just switch templates after the 12th fret from the 24.562" template to the 24.625" template, I will get the correct spacing?

It should be fine ,I made a Fret cutting system similar to Stew Macs and
incorporated the ''altered'' scale length into one steel template.
But yes , It is needless to worry, as the true 24 9/16'' scale works also.
Blimey,I knew I shouldn't have said anything. Ha Ha

[Mr Bones]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

It should be fine ,I made a Fret cutting system similar to Stew Macs and
incorporated the ''altered'' scale length into one steel template.
But yes , It is needless to worry, as the true 24 9/16'' scale works also.
Blimey,I knew I shouldn't have said anything. Ha Ha

I know, I know. But, now I can't do it the other way.