Rob's LP Build - "The Dragon"

[emoney]

Lovin' it, just lovin' it, McLovin!

[Claymore]

Hey guys,
Thank you for your kind comments, it is truly appreciated.
I am having a blast with this build - by rote I photo-journal my builds as I go along (self-learning) so it is a piece of cake to post here. The jigs and techniques I have built up over a few years of acoustic building -(both nylon and steel string) Of course I am already planning the next build - and what I would do differently... for example I will definitely be changing the truss rod - either bite the bullet and do the traditional TR, or install a fillet over a double-action rod so there is solid material under the nut and a mount for the bottom screw of the TR cover.... I am still planning to glue in a patch there on the Dragon when the time comes....
Next up: more hand-rubbed examples of burst with the WB Aniline Dye - the first example went exceedingly well. I had tried previously on spruce and it was a disaster - I now know that spruce is too open-pored for a rubbed burst - the maple is fantastic! I want this to work as I am only set up to spray WB finishes (EM6000) and feel imho that the best approach for appearance (max chatoyancy) is to get the dye on the wood and finish with glossy clear....

I will do four tests and choose the lucky winner....
brown - amber - yellow (done and posted)
black - amber - yellow
black - red - amber
brown - red - yellow

[Barnaby]

Just been looking over this thread again and am soooo impressed. Suffering from what freud would have called 'tool envy' right now...

...and skill envy. Man, you're good!

[Claymore]

Before pore-filling, I applied a wipe-coat of very thin (1/2# cut at the most) blonde non-waxed shellac. I then applied thinned Rosewood Timbermate Pore Filler (I absolutely love this stuff...). Be sure to thin it out 20% with water first. After sanding flush I applied another wipe coat of shellac. I like the way the darker pore fill pops the grain in the hog.
Everything is ready to spray except the top - I am experimenting with the dye burst - more to come....

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by Barnaby

Just been looking over this thread again and am soooo impressed. Suffering from what freud would have called 'tool envy' right now...

...and skill envy. Man, you're good!

Monsignor Barnaby, I think you know now that the power tools are secondary - it is the mental build process that is important, non? Whether you are cutting that neck blank with a bow saw (cool!) or a band saw - the result is similar - the difference is time and (physical and mental) effort. I built my first classical with all hand tools and no jigs - sure makes you think!

[Claymore]

After taping off the neck and sides, the top gets a wipe coat of water to raise the grain. Let dry for 30 minutes.

After a light sanding, a wipe coat of water is applied, then a coat of pure yellow. The mix is 1tsp dye powder to one cup of very hot water.

After many test runs, I decided to go with a Brown/Amber/Yellow burst. Not sure if I like the results. The two top pieces are not book-matched - they are slip-matched. The treble side took the stain much differently than the bass side. Hmmmmm.......kind of rustic looking - but not what I had in mind....

[69chargerse]

I like the look! It blows me away the amount of talent the people hand building guitars have. My grandfather had sick woodworking skills, and I wish I had them too. My thing is metal fab and welding. Great work Claymore!

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by 69chargerse

I like the look! It blows me away the amount of talent the people hand building guitars have. My grandfather had sick woodworking skills, and I wish I had them too. My thing is metal fab and welding. Great work Claymore!

Thanks 69! One of my first jobs was steel fabrication - I loved it!
If the treble side matched the bass side, I probably would have kept this burst - but I did not.....I have spent the last 4 hours sanding off this attempt. Contemplating the next attack.....Dark Amber Shellac and be done with it....?
Hmmmmmm

[emoney]

I think you can still burst it, you just may need to go a little darker around the outer edge.

[pinefd]

Excellent job with the build, Rob! I'm very impressed!

I think what you discovered with your burst attempt is what I discovered a few years ago now. It is very difficult to do a hand applied burst directly to the wood on a carved maple top. There may be some maple that this is easier on...like hard maple...but for the most part, the maple will cause a blotchy and/or muddy effect. Anywhere on the top where there is a soft spot or end grain (which is unavoidable on a carved top), you will get that blotchy/muddy effect. That's why most people will seal the wood before applying the burst.

Best of luck, and keep up the great work!


Frank

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Excellent job with the build, Rob! I'm very impressed!

I think what you discovered with your burst attempt is what I discovered a few years ago now. It is very difficult to do a hand applied burst directly to the wood on a carved maple top. There may be some maple that this is easier on...like hard maple...but for the most part, the maple will cause a blotchy and/or muddy effect. Anywhere on the top where there is a soft spot or end grain (which is unavoidable on a carved top), you will get that blotchy/muddy effect. That's why most people will seal the wood before applying the burst.

Best of luck, and keep up the great work!


Frank

Thank you for your comments Frank!
I was really bummed at the results of the hand-rubbed burst.
Thinking back - all of my test runs were on flat, highly figured maple.
The top on this project is lightly figured and, of course carved....
So if I am reading you correctly, you are suggesting laying down a sealer coat first - then the dye? Cool!
Back to the lab....trying to avoid spraying the burst if I can....

Rob

[pinefd]

Rob, once you put down your sealer coat (which you can do on top of the yellow, BTW), I'm not sure that you'll be able to do a hand rubbed burst on top of that. It may then need to be sprayed on.


Frank

[Claymore]

So.....after hours of sanding and experimenting, there was no way this top was going to accept a rubbed burst. Worse yet, the darker dye had penetrated very deeply into the softer areas - leaving very unsightly splotches. Meanwhile, must make progress - will burst the next one when I get some appropriate product... unfortunately ReRanch does not ship to Canada...looking at the Mohawk products...
So here is the resolution -a nice black burst.....might have to go with black speed knobs...

[69chargerse]

Cool! That will look great!

[armycopter]

I think you have more talent in your pinky than I have in my entire body. You are amazing. I love this thread.

[dickjonesify]

The black is cool. Don't worry about it.

IF you are unhappy, here is my only thought about sanding off the old dye;

the time I sanded dye off and it was still down deep, a little swipe of a damp rag helped raise the grain as well as more color to sand again. After a few times it was all gone.
It wasn't with figured wood, though, so who knows! Maybe Frank will have some more insight.

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by dickjonesify

The black is cool. Don't worry about it.

IF you are unhappy, here is my only thought about sanding off the old dye;

the time I sanded dye off and it was still down deep, a little swipe of a damp rag helped raise the grain as well as more color to sand again. After a few times it was all gone.
It wasn't with figured wood, though, so who knows! Maybe Frank will have some more insight.

No worries DJ - this was definitely uncharted territory - I learned so much about dyes and stains - Frank was right on in noting that the yellow dye works fine (and it did apply evenly), however after that a sealer and spray tint is required. I did manage to get most of the color out with sanding using the technique you describe, but as soon I added color after yellow the splotches appeared as the pigment soaked into the softer wood...I am very happy with the black - used leather dye, scraped the binding and topped with shellac. All good! Time to spray some clear!

Rob

[dickjonesify]

Sweet. Very Dragony. As black as the charred remains of his last opponent!

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by armycopter

I think you have more talent in your pinky than I have in my entire body. You are amazing. I love this thread.

<blush> Thanks AC! Looking forward to getting some finish on this build and stringing it up!

[pinefd]

Rob, I actually love the way it turned out! I've always loved the look of a standard with a black/ebony top and natural or cherry back. You did exactly what I would have done in these circumstances...assuming I couldn't get out the blotchiness in the top. Alternatively, I suppose you could have gone the double staining/flame enhancing route with this, but sometimes the wood just keeps fighting back, leaving you with undesirable results. So, I say you did great!


Frank

[Barnaby]

Wow - that black is amazing. It looks like you'll get some grain under there as well, so it should finish like a dream.

Sweet.

[emoney]

Looks to me like you've got your "lemonade".

I think she wanted to be black the whole time, but I'm not voting for the black
speed knobs!

It's going to turn out great!

[pinefd]

Originally Posted by emoney

...I'm not voting for the black
speed knobs!

I forgot to mention this. I agree, keep the amber knobs (or upgraded ones).

[dickjonesify]

Nope. something shiny! This should have all chrome hardware, pickup rings, switch tip, everything... like armour.
Probably wouldn't look good with the natural back, though. The amber does look good!

[fatdaddypreacher]

cm, i have found in my experience with furniture that a good end result is not generally achieved by not having things go awry. rather it is how you resolve the issue. nice looking contrast with the black top. nice save. your build is fantastic.

[nicolasrivera]

Rob, Incredible work you have done, i just wanted to share this refinish i did on a LP studios in black and the hardware i put made it look very catchy, if it helps here it is.

Thanks for sharing your work.

Nico.

[Claymore]

Thank you guys for your comments - after seeing Nico's incredible example I agree - the amber knobs stay - got me thinking about the cream vs black on the pickup rings and switchplate as well - I have both - will play with it more after I get some finish on and frets....

[pinefd]

FWIW, I much prefer the cream colored plastic...no offense to Nico since his guitar looks killer.


Frank

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by pinefd

FWIW, I much prefer the cream colored plastic...no offense to Nico since his guitar looks killer.


Frank

Non taken my friend!

[Sinster]

Wow! I wish had skills to build a guitar. Let alone play one.. What a great thread!

Beautiful work.