MLP Bartlett Build

[stmfitr636]

Originally Posted by T_Dub

Looking good!!

Here's a question I've had for a while. Why go through all the effort to age them? I would prefer to age my guitar through the actual passage of time. Seems like cheating to me. But I guess you're going for a guitar that looks identical to a 50's burst.

Some of us (ahem) don't have another 40 yrs to let a guitar age gracefully.

[alk-3]

Originally Posted by '59_Standard

Is it possible to take a pic of old and new board together like the one below, Tom? (The Final side-on effect pic only shows a small part of the board) Thanks - if you can/can't.

Here is a shot of both boards together. I took this photo at a different time of day, so the daylight lighting is a bit different from the before pictures, but you get the idea anyway.

Before


After

['59_Standard]

Thanks Tom! - Inlays look nice.

[alk-3]

Now I can start on the side dots. These are made from celluloid, and are tortoise coloured. Here is a picture of a piece of binding removed from a 50’s les paul. You can see how thick each dot really is. The dot is glued in with a dab of melted neck binding, making the dot more luminous because it has a white dab of melted binding behind it. On some of these pictures you can see the white binding still on the back of the dot.













I had initially thought that these dots were made by inserting a tortoise celluloid rod into the hole and then snipping it off, but I have been told of some dots actually being inserted on their sides. This proves that they were in fact small preformed dots and inserted one at a time.
In order to prepare the fretboard for the dots I first mark the binding with a sharp pencil to locate the centre of the binding. Since the binding is tapered from one end to the other, I keep the line centered within the taper.
I then draw on the crosshairs to locate each dot.




I use a pice of truss rod offcut, that ive ground a sharpened point on, and use it to lightly punch the sot location. This allowns the drill bit to have a smal indent in which to centre itself.






Now I drill each dot hole and make sure I get deep enough that I get fairly deep into the rosewood, about 1/16” or so.
I take each dot, dip it quickly into some binding melted in acetone and press it into place. This will give it the slight bit of white behind the dot that allows it to show up a bit better.
Once the dots are in, I set the whole thing aside to dry, then I file it smooth and flat and the fretboard is complete.

[RyanC]

The finish on that board is just unbelievable - Bravo Tom!

[alexanderja]

this is nothing short of BREATHTAKING

[GammyBird]

Fantastic work!!!

[sasparilla]

how did you make those Dots? And wheres the Material from (Fender tortoise celluloid Pick? )

[Mowgli5555]

I get blown further away down my street every time I reopen this thread and see what being done. Congrats Tom..... Good stuff

[alk-3]

Originally Posted by sasparilla

how did you make those Dots? And wheres the Material from (Fender tortoise celluloid Pick? )

It's celluloid sheet stock. Picks are the wrong thickness. You can see in one of the pictures above that the dots are over 1.5mm thick.

[alexvdl]

Originally Posted by sasparilla

how did you make those Dots? And wheres the Material from (Fender tortoise celluloid Pick? )

I'm sorry to hijack your thread Tom.

Here's how I do it. I use a dunlop thumb pick which is pretty thick. Flatten it with running warm water. I flatten the back of a drillbit with a file or sandpaper so it loses the chamfered edge, and gets a sharp edge. I drill a hole in a piece of wood with a drillpress. Turn the drillbit upside down and use the drillpress as a hole punch.

[alk-3]

Originally Posted by alexvdl

I'm sorry to hijack your thread Tom.

Here's how I do it. I use a dunlop thumb pick which is pretty thick. Flatten it with running warm water. I flatten the back of a drillbit with a file or sandpaper so it loses the chamered edge, and gets a sharp edge. I drill a hole in a piece of wood with a drillpress. Turn the drillbit upside down and use the drillpress as a hole punch.

I think this is how most people do it, and it does work like a charm. the real problem is finding the thicker celluloid. i was lucky enough to find some in a bin of sample sheets from a plastic company. not sure what i'll do when it runs out

[PoorMan]

Probably not vintage accurate, but LMII sells 2.5mm torty dots.

Good enough for lazy ol' me.

['59_Standard]

Originally Posted by Taller76

Tom,
Thanks for sharing...
What glue do you like to use? I had thought about using DAP Weldwood Marine Resorcinol Glue...just a little concerned that it isnt close enough to what they might have used back then.

Thanks!

This question may have been overlooked - so many posts!

What make of glue is used for gluing the Top to the body, Tom. Nocturnal has posted on his thread he too had trouble finding a maker in the US for PF glue.

And what color was the orginal glue line on the 50's Guitars - some PF's are a different color AFAIK. Thanks.

[alk-3]

Originally Posted by '59_Standard

This question may have been overlooked - so many posts!

What make of glue is used for gluing the Top to the body, Tom. Nocturnal has posted on his thread he too had trouble finding a maker in the US for PF glue.

And what color was the orginal glue line on the 50's Guitars - some PF's are a different color AFAIK. Thanks.

yes, PF is hard to find, or nearly impossible sometimes. i have a friend who works in a plywood press factory here locally, and he got me a pail of it through his work. i had to buy it in a 5 gallon pail. its two part, powder and liquid. unfortunately it is unbranded. they get it in 55 gallon drums, and he poured off a 5 gallon pail for me.
the colour is a lightish brown colour. this picture shows it on a 52 goldtop that i removed the top from.
if you are having trouble finding the glue, just use urea formaldehyde. its the exact same think, but it is not waterproof. PF is used in exterior grade plywood for construction purposes, UF is used in interior grade plywood. as long as you don't anticipate leaving your guitar underwater for a few days you will be fine with UF.
both UF and PF dry as hard and brittle as hide glue, so sonically they are very very good adhesives to use for this application.
hope all that helps somewhat.

[emoney]

Wow again. The detailed information in this thread is amazing.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by emoney

Wow again. The detailed information in this thread is amazing.

Yes... Great stuff.

Thank you.

['59_Standard]

Originally Posted by alk-3

yes, PF is hard to find,

the colour is a lightish brown colour. this picture shows it on a 52 goldtop that i removed the top from.

if you are having trouble finding the glue, just use urea formaldehyde. its the exact same think, but it is not waterproof. PF is used in exterior grade plywood for construction purposes, UF is used in interior grade plywood. as long as you don't anticipate leaving your guitar underwater for a few days you will be fine with UF.
both UF and PF dry as hard and brittle as hide glue, so sonically they are very very good adhesives to use for this application.
hope all that helps somewhat.

It does, thanks.

[Ken McKay]

http://www.cpadhesives.com/woodworki...-gallon-bottle

['59_Standard]

Thanks for that Ken. I've found other Resorcinol product by DAP and Humbrol, though I wasn't sure it was the exact same type of PF - being called: Resorcinol.

Am I incorrect in thinking, glue, usually described as a PF is cured via RF - needs thermal help, while Resorcinol is one that can be RF cured or not?

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by '59_Standard

Thanks for that Ken. I've found other Resorcinol product by DAP and Humbrol, though I wasn't sure it was the exact same type of PF - being called: Resorcinol.

Am I incorrect in thinking, glue, usually described as a PF is cured via RF - needs thermal help, while Resorcinol is one that can be RF cured or not?

I haven't heard of that. RF is just a method of speeding the curing time of the adhesive, be it either UF or PF. The CP brand Resorsinol Glue is full capable of curing at room temperature. I am not sure if a product that would be known as PF would not be able to cure at room temp.

[E-Rock]

This is one of the greatest threads I've ever read...just fantastic!!!

[Mowgli5555]

I have a feeling that updates are coming soon

[Reverend D]

Here is a video of PRS joining bodies and preparing them for final CRC routing. They use the RF glue to join the maple top at about the 6:15 minute mark , then after roughly cutting out the top pin nail the edges to be cut off and then press the whole thing in a press. Just thought I'd show it as I remember them using RF in part of the process. See video on this page for the process.


PRS Guitars | Tone In Detail | Body Team

Not trying to hi-jack just showing how PRS does it these days, not sure if Gibson uses a similar process on they're maple tops.
alk-3 thanks for sharing your build with us, there's such a wealth of info and its much appreciated, thanks!


Regards,

['59_Standard]

Hadn't seen that RF maple joint video, Rev - thanks for that!

[alk-3]

So now all three components are nearly complete - the neck body and fretboard. At this point I want to give the body a good sanding up to 220, and finesse all the corners etc. just generally work over the whole thing.. Once that’s done I set it aside and begin assembly of the neck.

I leave the truss rod nut off, and double check the neck for straightness.



I also check for any twist with some winding sticks.




Now I fit the neck very carefully to the body, paring off very small amounts of wood from the tenon to get a nice snug fit.



I want the neck to be pretty tight, easily tight enough to hold together without glue.
This can be a bit tricky because you also have to make sure the neck is in line with the centre of the body as well. I check this often with a straight edge down to the tailpiece bushings with the fretboard sitting in place

Once I have a very snug and perfectly aligned neck it’s finally time to start gluing things together.
I start with the fretboard. This is very simple, and easy to do. I just heat up the neck a bit with a clothes iron,



This allows the hot hide glue to have a bit more open time. The next steps I have to do quickly, so I don’t have pictures, but I just paint on the glue to the neck, very thin, but fully cover the whole surface, then I lay the fretboard down and slide the board back and forth to get any excess glue squeezed out, then I lay my radius block on the board and clamp it with as many clamps as I can find. I start with spring claps, because they are quick, then move on to regular clamps to get it a bit tighter. You don’t need to over clamp this joint if you have made a nice slip joint by sliding around the board.



I let it dry overnight.



Now I can fit the completed neck assembly to the body. I have already made sure the tenon fits very snug and aligns perfectly with the body, so the hard work is done,
After I take the neck out of the clamps, I sand it up to 220 doing the finial neck shaping as I go.

I use a chisel to remove the glue dried in the corner between the fretboard and tenon.






You can see the fit is still sloppy, and needs work.



I mark with pencil areas that I don’t want to sand.. those pencile marks should always be visable, if they start to get sanded, then im going too far.




I check the fit to the body and sand the joints so they line up well and are smooth and gap free. . Nearly done:





Once the neck is in place, and all of it lines up as it should, I'm nearly ready for glue.
I double check all the gaps, and all the mating surfaces. I check the neck binding and sand any blemishes away.
Now I very quickly apply hot hide glue to the tenon, and slide the neck into place. This is done very quickly, and is a very important joint of coarse, so I was unable to photograph it as I went.
I like to quickly double check the alignment with the straightedge






Now I let the glue gel up for 30 minutes or so, and then peel away the squeeze out.
Now after all this work, I can finally rout for pickups. I have this fixture that aligns everthing the same way as earlier. I just double check all the alighment, and go ahead and rout.







Again, I'm very carful about introducing the correct tooling marks here, so I take passes at depths consistent with originals.



Now I can sand the whole assembled guitar up to 320 grit, being very careful not to oversand, and keeping all the corners crisp. I take my time here and make sure its all perfect, because any shortcuts will show up once the finish begins.
I carefully scrape the binding leaving a perfect smooth finish on it ready for lacquer.
Next stage is finally finish work!

[73Custom]

superb !!!

[silverkw]

wow.... this is just getting more awesome every time I read...

[stmfitr636]

Great!

What size bit are you using and does it match the radii of the pickup route corners? Is it the same bit/radii as the ear routes?

Thanks yet again.

[Colorado Blue]

Tom,
Are you using any tricks to align that fingerboard onto the neck while you clamp? From the pics it doesn't look like your using any pins or even a spacer for the nut. I can't imagine that you're just lining everything up by eye and clamping. It seems too prone to slippage.