Computer controlled manufacturing for Historics

[phos]

I've been on here for a few months and I'm still learning new minute details about these guitars. I consider myself a player than a collector so my most utmost concerns are about playability and tone but if a guitar is pretty, that's a bonus. So far I have a couple of Historics, a USA standard (swiss cheese) and an Epiphone elitist, none of which are lacking in any serious manner.

I'm not entirely sure of the CAM (computer assisted manufacturing) process of any of these guitars except for the Plek fretting system of my 2 Historics. I'm sure the Epiphone Elitist has had a lot of computer assisted guidance and if so, I'm not surprised as it's really polished. I do find the Historics are easier to play but I'm not sure if it's due to the Pleking or shape/height of the frets or both.

Anyhow, the point of this post is to discuss the merits of CAM vs handmade manufacturing processes and which are better for what aspect of building a guitar, particularly the Historic line.

I'm of the opinion the Plek system is a godsend but CAM should also be applied to bridge post hole and pickup cavity carving and maybe neck/tenon mounting. Everything else should be hand done, it gives it an organic feel.

[R9.]

Pickups cavities, bridge posts, etc., are cut out by machine, aren't they?

[phos]

I'm not sure but it seems I might have wrote a long winded post for nothing.

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by R9.

Pickups cavities, bridge posts, etc., are cut out by machine, aren't they?

Yes, EVERYTHING involving hardware is done by a CNC machine. The ONLY things that are done by hand anymore are fret isntallation, sanding/finishing, and final assembly. It's kind of sad when you think about it.

[zeppelin101]

well I guesss you get the precision but the finesse and small attention to details just cant be accomplished by a machine

[phos]

Originally Posted by rockstar232007

Yes, EVERYTHING involving hardware is done by a CNC machine. The ONLY things that are done by hand anymore are fret isntallation, sanding/finishing, and final assembly. It's kind of sad when you think about it.

I think you need to include neck shaping but maybe that falls under your definition of sanding. The Historics really can differ in neck shape sometimes. For example, my most recent R8 has a little less shoulder on the treble side.

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by phos

I think you need to include neck shaping but maybe that falls under your definition of sanding. The Historics really can differ in neck shape sometimes. For example, my most recent R8 has a little less shoulder on the treble side.

Yeah, but the shape of the neck is achieved by [human hands] holding it against the sanding belt.

The neck blanks are even still cut by hand.

I'll tell you what though, as much as I admire the craftsmanship of yesteryear when it comes to LPs, I'm actually kind of glad that machines do most of the grunt work, because if they were made the way they used to be (mostly by hand)? The prices would be about 3 times what they are now!

[dave999z]

Originally Posted by rockstar232007

I'm actually kind of glad that machines do most of the grunt work, because if they were made the way they used to be (mostly by hand)? The prices would be about 3 times what they are now!

My guess (not saying I know) is that the price of historics is in no way a function of the cost of making historics. That's only true in competitive markets. But Gibson has no competition in this area... not too many customers of these guitars (esp. R9s) are really choosing between a historic and some other brand guitar. Can you name any other guitar make/model that, if it were say $300 cheaper, you would buy instead of a historic, unless Gibson also dropped its price $300? I can't. That demonstrates that it's not a competitive market, and instead Gibson is able to limit its output and charge high (monopoly) prices.

[ledfree]

Originally Posted by dave999z

My guess (not saying I know) is that the price of historics is in no way a function of the cost of making historics. That's only true in competitive markets. But Gibson has no competition in this area... not too many customers of these guitars (esp. R9s) are really choosing between a historic and some other brand guitar. Can you name any other guitar make/model that, if it were say $300 cheaper, you would buy instead of a historic, unless Gibson also dropped its price $300? I can't. That demonstrates that it's not a competitive market, and instead Gibson is able to limit its output and charge high (monopoly) prices.

+1 on that. They are pandering to a dream and people are buying it. Now I am not knocking it because I am just as guilty as the next man/woman of wanting to buy into it.

[ledfree]

Just a thought, going back to the OP. Don't think Gibson wouldn't have used CNC machines back in the 50's if it was more cost effective to do so.

[siggy14]

I would believe the setting of the neck is still done by hand and glueing it in, with the historics it takes longer and has to be more precise with the long vs rocker.

[diceman]

The new Standard model has an even longer tenon than the Historics - and it has a very unique shape. I think that most of this stuff is just set in there with little hand fitting.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by zeppelin101

well I guesss you get the precision but the finesse and small attention to details just cant be accomplished by a machine

They used machines in the 50s.

Liam

[voices]

some of the original equipment from the Kalamazoo factory is currently in use at the Memphis Custom shop.

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by dave999z

My guess (not saying I know) is that the price of historics is in no way a function of the cost of making historics. That's only true in competitive markets. But Gibson has no competition in this area... not too many customers of these guitars (esp. R9s) are really choosing between a historic and some other brand guitar. Can you name any other guitar make/model that, if it were say $300 cheaper, you would buy instead of a historic, unless Gibson also dropped its price $300? I can't. That demonstrates that it's not a competitive market, and instead Gibson is able to limit its output and charge high (monopoly) prices.

I meant LPs in general, not just Historics.

[dave999z]

Originally Posted by rockstar232007

I meant LPs in general, not just Historics.

Oh. Well, any schmo can get one of those.

[rockstar232007]

Originally Posted by dave999z

Oh. Well, any schmo can get one of those.

I can't! I'm a poor schmo!