My new R4

[k.online]

There is a cool alchemy with guitars, amps and effects. Some units simply work better with others, while some units have something special going on. I have been using an Xotic RC Booster for a few years now, and will continue to do so, but the new Lollars have something absolutely magical going on with my old Fulltone Fat Boost v.1, especially the neck pickup. Through both my amps, the aforementioned Deluxe and an '04 Clubman, it just seems to sound better than I have ever heard that pedal sound.

[paul les]

nice man!! those p90s are amazing i bet! gongrats

[mattymel]

got my lollar p90s in...WOW. i got kind of mad about how much better they sound than the stock pickups. 50s wound neck and overwound bridge. maybe not as trebly, but so much more definition. my fender deluxe is finally loving them. before it was kind of pinny. im running out of guitars to put lollars in.

does anybody have any thoughts on having p90s parallel with the strings? mine is at a slight angle. not anything i am really concerned about because i feel like there may be something to keeping the pickup touching the body of the guitar.

[neils]

MM cool news about the Lollars. So that was list slightly hotter bridge pup listed on the P90 page?

OK so you guys tell me. Since R4 owners check this never ending thread when ever they log in to MLP (I know I do) to see what is up should I give my little review of back to back swaps of RS Grey Tigers and RS Jensen caps here or in Tonefreaks?

You tell me. I began the swaps a few days ago and still have more to do but why not post what I tried.

Neil

[k.online]

Originally Posted by mattymel

Got my Lollar P-90s in... WOW! I got kind of mad about how much better they sound than the stock pickups. '50s wound neck and overwound bridge. Maybe not as trebly, but so much more definition. My Fender Deluxe is finally loving them. Before it was kind of pinny. I'm running out of guitars to put Lollars in.

Does anybody have any thoughts on having P-90s parallel with the strings? Mine are at a slight angle. Not anything i am really concerned about because I feel like there may be something to keeping the pickup touching the body of the guitar.

My sentiments exactly. It's ridiculous that an improvement of that magnitude is so cheap. I prefer to keep the pickups in contact with the wood. I went with a '50s neck and the stock bridge. Do you find the volume difference a bit too much with the overwound bridge?

Originally Posted by neils

Ok, so you guys tell me. Since R4 owners check this never ending thread when ever they log in to MLP, I know I do, should I give my little review of back to back swaps of RS Grey Tigers and RS Jensen caps here or in Tonefreaks? You tell me. I began the swaps a few days ago and still have more to do but why not post what I tried.

Feel free to post anything R4 related on this thread. I hope this thread never actually does end.

[neils]

Well OK then.

So the guitar is Duh, an R4, an '02 model. I hear that in '02 it would have had some ceramic caps but mine had BB's installed by another owner. I suspected they were Gibson fake BB's and now I'm sure.

So an R4, 10-46 Pyramid Nickel Classics, '50's wiring. Stock Gibson pups that measure 8.1K at the jack.
I play into a Blackheart Little Giant 5W Class A amp. Mullard EL84 and Sovtek 5751. I have some boxes but most of the time I play clean or I add a little OCD (drive knob rarely past 10 o'clock) The OCD makes the amp sound at low volumes like it does when I can dime it, which is rare.

So there you have it. It didn't suck as it was but we know that. During RS Guitars last sale I bought a kit with 4 of their RS 500K pots and Grey Tigers. I also bought a .22 and a .15 Jensen oil caps.

I had an Epiphone '56 GT P90 RI. I put an RS kit in that with Tigers and RS pots so I have an idea what all this could sound like though the Epi pups measred 9K.

So with STOCK Gibson pots still in the R4 I installed the Grey Tigers. They made the guitar sound more "wooden", "warm", less shrill and fuller. I know w/o sound clips I'm just throwing out all those adjectives we hear all the time but that's all I can do. So really everything just got closer to how I want it to sound. The bridge sounds great, nice woman tone if I want. Snarls when pushed w/o any fizzyness the fake BB's added. The neck is still a little Harsh for lack of a better term. a little too thin but way better than a fake BB did.

I played that way for a couple of days. Today I put a .22 Jensen on the bridge pup. Right off I noticed it had less "bite", a little less top or edge to the tone. When pushed with the OCD the little bit of "fizz" was gone. Didn't get on that squeally edge. With both pups on, BV at 10, NV at 7 I get a better woman tone than the neck alone gives. Two Tigers don't get the same tone. It is like the neck woman tone but a little thicker and again none of the fizz that the Tigers let through. Very fat, very nice. Now NV on 7, BV on 10 doesn't give me that really cutting edgy tone that two Tigers give me.

So after an hour of playing like that I went back to Two tigers to confirm what I thought.

The Tigers are in my case great. The are a little more open sounding, have a little more top and can be more aggressive sounding. But they get a little fizz when pushed with too much drive or OCD. Not sure I like that.

The Jensen is as Billy at RS says more "middy" sounding. Both are warm but the Jensen has a little less top and that is why the edge and the fizz and the squeal went. Still bright though. That didn't change

Now when I tried my brothers Dr. Z Z28 amp I'd never heard my neck pup sound so good. But that is a really nice amp and it is 6V6's and not an EL84 tube. Poor bastard also has a MAZ 18 and that IS EL84's so in that amp is was again a brighter British kind of sound. So my "fizz" could be 'cause I play a simple 2 tube amp, or 'cause it is made in China or, or, or.....

So in the end everything matters. Next I will try that .22 Jensen in the neck but I know what it will do pretty much and I think I'll like it. I also have that .15 Jensen to try in the neck. Now I assume being a .15 it will be brighter BUT at the same time "middy" Could be nice, who knows.

When all this is done I'll put in the RS pots and they'll do what they did in the Epi. If I had a different amp everything I wrote would change so caps are cheap, buy some and try some.

Neil

[mattymel]

i like the bridge noticeably louder. with the 50s wind (underwound) in the neck and overwound in the bridge, for me its perfect. perfect for a little solo boost to get my blackface barking, and i like the little extra room to roll off on the bridge in the middle position. my RS kit still gets a touch darker down past the 3-4 volume territory on the bridge, and the overwind seems to help.

i talked to a guy at his booth at a vintage guitar show in seattle and he said that soon lollar might start shipping with his pickups with caps. id be curious to hear whatever he settles on.

jason lollar is just the MAN. i am pretty much counting the days to throw down for some of his PAFs in my R9 (which has been much neglected being the sole gibson pickup guitar i have left). then this will be an official lollar zone. im waiting on a headstrong lil king that i ordered about a week ago. cant wait to hear the R4 through that badboy.

after hearing all the p90s i have put in the last month, lollar's stuff is just good enough for me. i feel like if there is something better, i dont need to know about it. and i just like the idea of keeping it local (and the fact that i get pickups shipped to my door in 2 days doesnt hurt!!!) plus, judging from the clips of his playing, the man can thrown down. something to be said for that.

[mattymel]

oh yeah, i heard ted weber just passed away. im dark. lollar and weber are my boys! hope they keep the ball rolling and making things right in indiana. RIP ted...

[k.online]

Since I changed pickups, pots and tone caps at the same time I don't really know what did what. Not that it was terrible before, but it's perfect now.

I also just ordered a Lollar Jimmy Smith for my Epiphone Emperor Regent.

[neils]

Yea I know how it is when you want to get stuff installed, you just get it done.

I'm not in a hurry so what the hell I'll take little steps. My brother read what I wrote and agreed that everything matters. He even added that going from another name brand cable to an Evidence Audio cable remove some "fizz" he had. Huh, now I gotta think cables too?

He also said that sometimes just going from the Z28 to the MAZ is like changing guitars. The MAZ likes pedals better than the Z28, the Z28 really liked my P90's but he's had P90 guitars (not Gibsons) and never liked them, now he likes mine. He likes to practice on the MAZ but almost prefers the sound at a gig from the Z28.

I do think we can take one thing away from what I tried and that is the cap can be like a little EQ. If the Tiger is flat then the Jensen has a mid hump and maybe a little pulled off the top, or reverse that to Jensen is flat line and the Tiger is more like a smile. Know what I mean.

They do make the guitar sound different. No reason one must have matching caps on each pot. I even have an RS Modern cap .15 I was gonna try in the EPI GT that I may as well try at some point. That should really sound different.

So I'm off this week and that allows more time for play in between chores so I'll put the .22 Jensen in the neck. I think I'm really gonna like some of what it does but I also really like how rude the neck pup can be with a little OCD and volume.

And after all this I could really bend my mind and start trying Lollars, SD's etc etc. Oh and then change amps and do it all over, get an Emory Sound Superbaby and become a tube swapping nut job............to be continued.


Neil

[joek86]

I just installed rey Tigers with an RS harness in my R4 and at the same time, I did a Pigtail wrap around and studs. I also changed out the stock PUPs and installed David Plummer's P90s. **NICE## Got some great tones .........neck vol on 4 or 5 tone on 5 with the bridge vol on 7 0r 8 w/ tone on 8.thick and juicey!


~Joe

[neils]

Joe

That sounds like a great combo you installed. So now let's say you wanted to take the edge off or pump a little mods mids into one pup. Just add a Jensen and that would do it. A little EQ from a cap.

How do you like that Pigtail bridge? Did you go with the OE style one piece or the adjustable one. I had the adjustable one on a Jr and the quality was excellent. I have TonePro locking studs and stock tail on my R4 now.

Tell us more about the Plummer P90's. Are they would alot hotter than say Lollars stock set? Jon Moore says he models his P90's somewhat along the lines of conversation he and Plummer had it says on Moore's website. I had a Moore P90 in Jr. Really nice. Loud and vocal. I do like how the user can swap magnets himself in the Moore P90's and you pick the 2 sets that come with each pup.

Neil

[joek86]

I would have to ask David exactly what he made me but the bridge is about 9K. They are based on his Cherrick 90's.

~Joe

[neils]

Wish he had a website. I'd like to know more

Neil

[joek86]

Give him a call or email him...... I have an email out to him now to find out some of the specifics on mine.

~Joe

[joek86]

He just emailed me......"9.2k with roughcast A5 and A2 for the bridge, 7.2k with narrow (non-roughcast) A5/A2 for the neck. If they want to order, tell them it's just the Cherrick set with an overwound bridge (normally 8.8k)."

[k.online]

Originally Posted by neils

He even added that going from another name brand cable to an Evidence Audio cable remove some "fizz" he had. Huh, now I gotta think cables too?

I have gone round and round the cable-berry bush as both guitarist and audiophile. Yes, good cables make a difference but that whole thing gets stupid fast. I tried the Evidence cable and a few other 'high-end' cables and generally found them to sound very thin and 'paper-y'. Good Canare cable (I use the GS-6, about $1 a foot in bulk), Switchcraft plugs (not the cheap lookalikes) and, most importantly, good soldering, and you've got a great cable for under $30.

Originally Posted by neils

The MAZ likes pedals better than the Z28...

I have owned a few Champ-type amps and currently have an Epiphone Valve Jr. with some NOS tubes, and for the most part I have found that low-power amps don't really like drive pedals. They just don't have the headroom and get really compressed and fizzy.

Originally Posted by neils

...get an Emery Sound Superbaby and become a tube swapping nut job...

Those look so cool, but a little steep.

[neils]

I gotta make this short as I'm out the door but NO to a Jensen in the neck position.

I tried it and didn't like it, already switched back to the Tiger. Jensen just sucked the character of the pup away. Yes it was "warmer" more middy but it didn't respond to attack the same way, wasn't as vocal or hollowish kinda voicelike. Any of that make sense. It dulled the guitar. The woman tone I had wasn't there either. In the neck the edge that the Tiger has is needed.

So no to the neck, maybe to the bridge for that .22 Jensen.

On to the next test.

[neils]

I got my pickup winders mixed up.
It's Vintage Vibe Guitars that includes
two sets of magnets with each set and they are
user swappable. You have P90's with A2/3/4 or ceramic
magnets. Your choice of which two. I suppose you could
also do an A2/4 in one pup if you wanted. Very fair prices
at $151 for a pair

Oh boy! More options.

[k.online]

Well, last night's gig had a nice big stage so we decided to go for the whole shebang. Our drummer brought out his vintage Ludwig kit, bass player brought his vintage SVT, keys were a Hammond B3 with a Leslie 147 and a Rhodes Stage 88.

My R4, my Tele, both my old Silvertones for slide, one in G, one in D. I had my usual Matchless Clubman and 2x12" cab, an HC-30 running a modified Leslie 18 (fuck Leslie simulators) and a pedalboard with every pedal I own. Vintage Crybaby, Fulltone OCD and Fatboost (both v.1's), Chicago Iron Octavian, Analog Man Chorus, Sunface and Tube Screamer, Line 6 DL-4 in an Xotic X-Blender, and a Lehle 1@3 to manage it all.

Oh yeah, and I brought the Deluxe so other players could sit in.

It sounded HUGE...!!! Really inspired the players, easily the best this band has sounded musically. Wish we would have recorded it.

The down side is that I might, just might, be able to move my arms by tomorrow...

[k.online]

Oh no... is this thread dying...?!?!?

I have an Axe-FX Ultra on a long-term loan from a traveling friend and way too busy getting lost in it to be cruising forums. Well, the Fractal forum just so I can figure this thing out...!!! So far, the best direct guitars I have heard by a long shot.

This song is by Vancouver-based singer/songwriter Brian Highley. A little more rock than my norm so I tried to Keef it up a bit. All the guitars are my R4 through a JTM-45 based patch, totally dry with a bit of reverb & EQ in Logic. Left rhythm is neck PU, right rhythm is bridge PU, solo is neck PU with a treble booster.

http://members.shaw.ca/k.online/musi...rDoIsFight.m4a

[Fedejh]

amazing guitar!
i didn't read all the thread but i want to ask you ... if you have any problem with the intonation.. or something like that.. because i'm plannin to buy one.. but i'm a bit worried about the intonation problems without the TOM, and i dont want to buy a R6..

[k.online]

No issues at all. The wraptail is somewhat adjustable. I intonate it so the B and low E strings are set.

[Tele Jr.]

Nice clip K, very well done, is that from your recent recording project?

Intonation is a non issue to me as well, any problems you may have can be minimized by tweaking your string set. My string set with my tuning works out perfectly for me indeed.

I've been out of town working for the past month or so, but still keeping up on the chops as much as I can. Being away from the instrument a bit more than usual recently has made me realize the sound I hear in my head as "my sound" now when I'm away from the guitar is the R4.

I've got Lollars and Grey Tigers on order...

[k.online]

Thanks TJ. That is just a one-off that I did for Brian, sort of a song makeover. The tracks were recorded years ago in Ontario and actually sounded quite thin and nasty. I tweaked the existing drums, bass and vocal tracks and added new guitar parts with a very different feel. Here's a short clip of the mix that was there when it came in.

http://members.shaw.ca/k.online/musi...EverDoOrig.m4a

My recent project is a blues album with another local artist that should be done very shortly. We took a break between tracking and mixing to come back with fresh ears.

My album is well on it's way. Working with a vocal coach and starting to feel much more comfortable as a singer.

Last night, I got to play a set with the legendary Jim Byrnes. Amazing vibe and incredible voice! Brought the best out of all the players. I am still a little high from it... ;-)

[k.online]

Originally Posted by Tele Jr.

I've got Lollars and Grey Tigers on order...

You ain't gonna regret that move. Trust me... ;-)

[Tele Jr.]

Your treatment of that tune vs the original is cool to hear, your playing with the R4 sounds so righteous to my ears it blows the original away.

I ordered 2 sets, the Costello Lollars and also a set of the alnico V Lollars with an underwound neck. I spent so long trying to decide which ones to try first I guess I'm sort of on the hook to check them both out now.

Still digging the Gibson P-90's but I'm ready for the upgrade to the Lollars now, if that means taking some wood to get them set up right that's what I'll do.

Catching up on this thread has also convinced me the Grey Tigers are also what I'm looking for, mojo cred goes out to Neils for doing the work and sharing his review.

[mrkenny]

I got a CR4 several years ago and like most of you guys I started changing things until I arrived at my own sonic place. Everything you do seems to change the guitars tone, if only slightly. My first swap was to a complete '52 LP wire harness (grey tigers). Next, early 50's P90's (8.08 neck/ 8.85 bridge). Then came a '54 bridge, steel studs and inserts. I'm a finisher by trade so I stripped all the plastic VOS finish off and refinished in pure nitro (real bronze powder for the top). With each addition things changed a bit. For a while I used Gibson VR 10-46 strings. I played through a 4x10 Bassman for a very long time. After I quit gigging I decided I needed a smaller amp to use at open mic's. I had a '59 Tweed Super-Amp clone built. Two P10R's 32 watts (2-6L6's), very much like a Basssman tone wise but a smaller package. At last weeks open mic I found that my low notes lacked definition. I swapped strings to DR pure blues, they eliminated the mud and now the lows are piano like. My rig now finished and is very inspiring but I feel a bit lost. After chasing tone for years I'm now satisfied. I kept searching guitar forums, reading everything I could, posing questions to all my friends, amp builders and luthiers moving ahead little by little until I was satisfied. I guess I should concentrate on the music now. Tone searching is very elusive. You know that sound you hear in your head, but don't exactly have a map to get there.

[neils]

Well all this Lollar talk has me itching to get those too. But I really really don't want to take any wood out. Some of you have and some haven't. Just how much closer to the strings are the Lollars (neck only is a problem) if you don't remove wood? Are we talking 1/16th" or greater. Anyone wish that had taken wood who didn't?

I've stayed with Grey Tigers. I have a Pigtail wrap coming along with their studs. I already have TonePros steel studs now but if the Pigtails fit as tight as they claim I may use the PT studs. Any adjustment is a pain with the Tonepro lockers.

I still have RS pots to install I haven't done yet. No hurry. Oh and I have an itch for an amp I don't need. Really think the Emery Sound stuff is cool. Then there are all those little home builders on eBay. Frugalamps.com has some neat stuff. Frenzel has cool stuff you can play master tube swapper with for very nice prices.

Truth is my 5 watt Blackheart rarely gets over 1/2 volume here at home. And I have to think that OK, the BH has a PC board, maybe some cheap parts in it but also some good parts. I have great tubes in it. How much REALLY is a point to point 5 watt amp with the same tubes gonna sound?

Going to a 6L6 5 watter vs my EL84 would have more impact than point to point I think. That is why the amps that let you run anything are so interesting.

So what amps are you other R4 owners using. Maybe the wrong forum but I know what we all play right here in this thread guitarwise.

Neil

[joek86]

I have done all of the mods that you are in the process of doing; Grey Tiger caps, RS pots, Pigtail Bridge, Pigtail studs. I installed David Plummer's P90's and they sound great; same size as stockers too. The guitar sounds great!

I play my R4 through a 65AMPS SoHo, a Greer Thunderbolt, or a Reinhardt Storm 33 depending on the tone I am going for or my mood. This guitar sound great through all of them.....