Is your Historic LP wired correctly? (survey)

[Jafo]

I have been checking out my '07 1958 VOS RI Control Cavity wiring against some of the published 50's Style Wiring Diagrams. On mine, the Caps seem to be wried to the wrong lugs on the pot (assuming the diagrams are correct).

Is yours wired like mine or like the diagram?
Did you change your wiring? Did you notice a difference?
Does it make any difference one way or the other?

My Control Cavity



50's Wiring Diagram

They are all wired like yours...modern style. I actually prefer this style over 50s style with the pots Gibson uses. If you convert to 50s style, I have found that the volume becomes too sensitive and you lose much of the sweep.

[Jafo]

"They are all wired like yours...modern style. I actually prefer this style over 50s style with the pots Gibson uses. If you convert to 50s style, I have found that the volume becomes too sensitive and you lose much of the sweep."

Hmmm. Verrrrry interesting. Thanks for the response, 56.

[dwagar]

I've switched mine to 50s style, I tend to use my vol knobs quite a bit, and find I maintain the highs better when I roll down the volume.

I don't know if it makes a difference with Gibson pots as Kink56 says above, I have CTS pots in mine.

[Led Zep Fan]

I have mine wired up RS style.

[DeafDumbBlind Kid]

Mine is currently wired modern style, I prefer the 50s wiring. I just put new pups in it and will leave it alone for a while. I do plan to put CTS 500k audio taper pots in, and will also go 50s wiring when I do, along with new caps. That might wait after I do the pots, as I would like to see how much difference the caps make, too.

I am planning on documenting the differences via recording. Seeing as I have a very dominant procrastination gene, I don't forsee this happening too terribly soon. First I've got to get my music room finalized, mod the computer hutch, get the patchbay wired up, get a monitor system, etc.

I eventually plan to put my pigtail tailpiece, RS steel studs on. I'll do both those changes at the same time, maybe before the other changes. The other changes will be cosmetic only (real knobs, uncle lou tuner tips and some nice plastic parts). No big hurry, this guitar will probably be around for a while. I haven't had a gutiar quell GAS as much as this one has.

[Redfish]

I personally can't wait to change the stock pots in a historic. Every one I have owned only adjusts between 1 and 4 and then it's all on. Once I put the RS pots and OIP caps in I try the 50's wiring and standard and see which I like better. To me some guitars sound better with one or the other. On my 2006 R8 I had the neck pickup wired standard and the bridge wired 50's. It's a matter of preference but I definitely like the more uniform taper of upgraded pots.

I find 50s wiring with the stock electronics cause MOST of the volume adjustment to happen between 10 and 8! When I buy aftermarket CTS pots (audio taper) and wire for myself, I like to wire the 50s style on the tone side, and the modern style on the volume side!

[Liam]

I'm wired incorrectly (modern style) on my Historic, and both my other Les Pauls.

I too found the modern volume control wiring to be more useable. I might have to try vintage style tone control wiring (now I've started using tone controls), but I can't see how it could make any difference.

I am not 100% sure it does. But I started wiring everything in 50s style, and did not like it, so I left the tone in 50s style and returned the volume to modern and I REALLY like it now!!

[DeafDumbBlind Kid]

Originally Posted by kink56

I am not 100% sure it does. But I started wiring everything in 50s style, and did not like it, so I left the tone in 50s style and returned the volume to modern and I REALLY like it now!!

can you diagram that, please? I'm curious to give it a try.

Well all you have to do is do the 50s diagram above, and then move the cap to the red wire on that diagram. So move the cap to the bottom lugs were the pups go to on the 50s diagram. You will end up with the tone side looking just like the 50s diagram above and the volume side looking just like the picture on the first post, above the 50s diagram.

[Sean French]

The only change necessary to go from modern wiring to 50's is to move the cap on each volume pot from the input lug
to the output lug(middle lug).
No need to change(reverse)the cap and ground on the tone pots as they function exactly the same wired either way.

[DeafDumbBlind Kid]

Originally Posted by Sean French

The only change necessary to go from modern wiring to 50's is to move the cap on each volume pot from the input lug
to the output lug(middle lug).
No need to change(reverse)the cap and ground on the tone pots as they function exactly the same wired either way.

so you're saying going from center lug(volume) to center lug (tone) is the same thing as '50s wiring? Take a guitar that is modern wired and move the cap from the outside lug of the volume pot and put it in the center lug of the volume pot?

[Sean French]

Originally Posted by DeafDumbBlind Kid

so you're saying going from center lug(volume) to center lug (tone) is the same thing as '50s wiring? Take a guitar that is modern wired and move the cap from the outside lug of the volume pot and put it in the center lug of the volume pot?

Yep.

[Liam]

Blimey, when I thought I'd wired the volumes 50s style, I had simply done it wrong!

Can see what you mean about the tone control now, it's either across the whole pickup or just the output of the pickup. (the signal direction through a variable resistor is immaterial) So it will only make a difference as the volume is rolled off. Going to try it and report back!

Thanks Sean, I was under a bit of a misconception there.

Liam

[bigconig]

mine

[tom1263]

How crazy is this? I was just putting back my WCR crossroads into my R7 as I found out Gibby burstbuckers suck for hard rock. Major feedback a high volumes....anyway, while wiring them back up I used the 50's style (didn't know) and I noticed the tone control was alomost non-exisitant!

I got frustrated and opened up my R9 and copied the wiring of this and it is sweet. The R7 came with RS pots/caps and I'm not sure the guy I bought it from didn't wire them wrong. I'm not much better as fars cleanliness so I will not be posting a pic of cavity.....

Great post

[Tone Seeker]

I've been experimenting with both wiring styles. I find that the 50's style adds brightness to the pickups. I ran across a frequency plot that verified this. Modern wiring renders a relatively flat frequency response whereas 50's wiring has a peak around 4K.

I like this on my neck pickup as the added "sparkle" helps. On the bridge it seems to make it too bright and cutting, although I'm still experimenting. I can see how this will vary from guitar to guitar, pickup to pickup and player to player. I think it's a "try and see" kind of thing.

What I really like with 50's wiring is how the highs are retained as I turn the volume down. When I'm wired modern I get mud as I roll the volume off.

For those of you running with modern wiring, do you use treble bleed circuits and if so, how do you like them?

Terry.

[Bluzboy66]

Originally Posted by tom1263

How crazy is this? I was just putting back my WCR crossroads into my R7 as I found out Gibby burstbuckers suck for hard rock.

I have Burstbucker Pros in my '04 LP Standard Premium Plus, they're wax potted (no squeal), and they really rip for hard rock and classic rock. I was just blowing through some ZZ Top earlier today, and the Burstbuckers sounded great with that too.

Mike

[Hubba]

Hi everyone,

I've read about several people having squeeling/feedbacking problems with the Burstbuckers in their "Historics"

I just very recently bought my first historic (a 1958 flamed cloud reissue) wich i will be posting more about on the forum soon because it's the best guitar i've ever played!!

Now i often play classic and contemporary and alternative rock, and use high gain sounds alot. I also found that the historic Burstbuckers (non waxpotted) contrary to the BurstbuckerPro's (waxpotted) in my "standard" LP Std were starting to squeel uncontrollably much faster, wich is annoying.

As I do like the tone of the Burstbuckers better then "BB Pro's" (seem to sound more open and airy to me) I was looking for a solution.
From several sources I found that it's pretty easy to do some basic waxing your humbuckers yourself. Here's a simple description of how i did it (and it works!!!):

In modern pickups often some kind of wax, or parafine wax is poured or forced (by vaccuum sucking!!) into the pickup to keep from microphonic feedbacking (that is squeeling uncontrollably because of mechanic vibrations within the pickup)

In the Burstbuckers it is mainly the mechanical vibration between the pickup cover and the actual pickup bobbins underneath. You can solve a great deal by removing the pickup cover, but I myself think the LP is better looking WITH covers.

Here's the clue: you can simply wax the pickup yourself, or have it done by someone: Simply remove the cover (unsoldering the two connections) and put it upsidedown on a flat surface.Then put a small amount of candle wax (or other wax) inside the pickup cover. Then use a medium heat heatgun, and warm up the cover and the wax, untill the wax melts, and runs over the inside surface of the cover. Then put the pickup back together, resoldering the cover to the baseplate. as a finishing touch you can now place the whole pickup upside down, and put another piece of wax on the baseplate and heat up.. Let the liquid wax pour into al the small crevises...and... there you go..
A waxpotted Burstbucker that won't squeel that easy any more... If you have any questions... don't hesitate to ask....

Best regards,

Hubba

[les strat]

Originally Posted by Hubba

Hi everyone,

I've read about several people having squeeling/feedbacking problems with the Burstbuckers in their "Historics"

I just very recently bought my first historic (a 1958 flamed cloud reissue) wich i will be posting more about on the forum soon because it's the best guitar i've ever played!!

Now i often play classic and contemporary and alternative rock, and use high gain sounds alot. I also found that the historic Burstbuckers (non waxpotted) contrary to the BurstbuckerPro's (waxpotted) in my "standard" LP Std were starting to squeel uncontrollably much faster, wich is annoying.

As I do like the tone of the Burstbuckers better then "BB Pro's" (seem to sound more open and airy to me) I was looking for a solution.
From several sources I found that it's pretty easy to do some basic waxing your humbuckers yourself. Here's a simple description of how i did it (and it works!!!):

In modern pickups often some kind of wax, or parafine wax is poured or forced (by vaccuum sucking!!) into the pickup to keep from microphonic feedbacking (that is squeeling uncontrollably because of mechanic vibrations within the pickup)

In the Burstbuckers it is mainly the mechanical vibration between the pickup cover and the actual pickup bobbins underneath. You can solve a great deal by removing the pickup cover, but I myself think the LP is better looking WITH covers.

Here's the clue: you can simply wax the pickup yourself, or have it done by someone: Simply remove the cover (unsoldering the two connections) and put it upsidedown on a flat surface.Then put a small amount of candle wax (or other wax) inside the pickup cover. Then use a medium heat heatgun, and warm up the cover and the wax, untill the wax melts, and runs over the inside surface of the cover. Then put the pickup back together, resoldering the cover to the baseplate. as a finishing touch you can now place the whole pickup upside down, and put another piece of wax on the baseplate and heat up.. Let the liquid wax pour into al the small crevises...and... there you go..
A waxpotted Burstbucker that won't squeel that easy any more... If you have any questions... don't hesitate to ask....

Best regards,

Hubba

Stock Burstbuckers on Historics ARE potted from the factory except for the first year or so they used them. Aftermarket BB 1 and 2 are NOT potted.

[Hubba]

Hi Les Strat,

As I removed the covers from the BB 1 & 2 in my guitar, it was clearly that they weren't waxpotted. Gibson specifies that the BB's 1,2 and 3 are not waxpotted, and that the BB Pro's, wich are now on the USA standards, are. (Great pickups by the way...)

It's too bad that the BB Pro is not available as an aftermarket in zebra......

[ibis]

I had a reply yesterday from the Gibson Custom & Historic Admin on the Gibson.com forum stating that factory fitted BBuckers #1 and #2 on Historics ARE wax potted, whereas the aftermarket ones are not.

[BOBBO]

Here's a 50's LP cavity shot !! Why is there a wire connecting the 2 tone pots ??

[dnoseworth]

My 2001 R9 is wired Modern. It seems to only have a workable volume between 10 and 8, anything below that has hardly any treble. Pesonaly i don't like it. My amps are touch sesnitive and use the volume on the guitar to go from clean to dirty(no master volume on amps). I'd like suggestions on how to fix this. Is it just moving the caps ? Also when i'm switched to the middle position 1 volume cancels out the other when used. ?????? Chime in anybody.

[Liam]

Here's a 50's LP cavity shot !! Why is there a wire connecting the 2 tone pots ??

To get a nice little earth loop to hum away while you're not playing. Not a good idea, was put there in error I reckon Bobbo. The guitar is also on "modern" tone control wiring style.

My 2001 R9 is wired Modern. It seems to only have a workable volume between 10 and 8, anything below that has hardly any treble. Pesonaly i don't like it. My amps are touch sesnitive and use the volume on the guitar to go from clean to dirty(no master volume on amps). I'd like suggestions on how to fix this.

My 01 R9 was the same. I changed to CTS pots to sort out the sensitivity issue, and bumblebee caps (genuine 50s ones) to get the tone a bit more lively. The caps and pots in 01 guitars are really very poor. You can use a bypass cap to get even more top bleeding through as you roll off the volume if you want.

Also when i'm switched to the middle position 1 volume cancels out the other when used. ??????

Do you mean shut off the volume for one pickup and they both go off? That's normal.

Liam

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by BOBBO

Here's a 50's LP cavity shot !! Why is there a wire connecting the 2 tone pots ??

Bobbo , I'm sure this is a Shot of Mick Moodys [ex Whitesnake ] Les Paul.
The earth loop is pretty standard on 1950s Les Pauls. The wire does look a smaller gauge than normal though, more like the wire on an earlier gold top.

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by single cut 54

Bobbo , I'm sure this is a Shot of Mick Moodys [ex Whitesnake ] Les Paul.
The earth loop is pretty standard on 1950s Les Pauls. The wire does look a smaller gauge than normal though, more like the wire on an earlier gold top.

Here's another vintage LP with the " earth loop " as you put it .. What is it supposed to do ?

[Tone Seeker]

Originally Posted by BOBBO

Here's another vintage LP with the " earth loop " as you put it .. What is it supposed to do ?

You'll notice (hard to see I know) that one lug on the pots is bent over and soldered to the pot chassis. The wire between pots connects them all electrically providing an "earth" or "ground" for the circuit.

However, as Liam notes this can potentially cause ground loops and hum. A better solution is to use a "star ground", rather than an "earth / ground loop". In a star ground all ground points in the audio circuit are connected back to a single physical ground point.

Another place where you run into ground loops (and hum) is when you direct connect instruments (i.e. keyboards) to a P.A. If the PA is plugged into a different electrical circuit than the instrument, and the two electrical circuits have different ground potentials, you create a ground loop and potentially hum.

Terry.