New R8 and New to Les Pauls: I Need Help!

[Encinitastubes]

This is my first post. I'm new to the Les Paul world, having recently purchased a new R8 (well, 2005, but purchased new) that is just incredible; real lively when played acoustically and the big neck just sold me.

I've grown up on an early '70s 335, which I don't want to take out anymore. Through my amp (a Sewell Wampus Cat Classic) I can play jazz chords, but also get a good sustain sounds when I lay into it. When I plugged my new R8 into the same set up, I can't get the acoustic suond of the guitar to come through. The low E is muddy, it's hard to get a good clean sound that still lets me lay into it to get sustain, and the chords don't blend that well.

Is this the nature of a Les Paul or are the stock pickups too hot for what I'm doing. It's dissappointing because the guitar feels perfect. I'm willing to adjust the set-up and experiment with different pickups, but don't want to waste the time and money if it's just the way that Les Pauls are.

Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated.

[lp59aholicDon]

First of all, Welcome to MLP
Hmm as for your problems theres a few possible solutions, I have to say that Humbuckers, especially either vintage PAF's and newer type PAF Replica's are not so glass clean unless your amp has tons of clean headroom
Seymour Duncan makes a Jazz Neck pickup replacement that might suit your needs
A lil string elevation might help with the mudding up, I havent heard this complaint much with Historic type LP's though

[Roman]

First off welcome to the forum

As far as pickups; For years and years, I had been installing Duncans for people.

The best combo I have found was the Jazz neck and the JB for the bridge.

I have installed many sets, yet, I have never taken a set out.

That tells you something.

The last five years I have been a big fan of Lindy Fralins.

Here at this forum there are some pickup makers that I have heard nothing but good about.
check them out, I am sure they would be glad to help you get your proper Mojo
Roman

[lp johnny]

try adjusting the neck pickup down and raise the pole pieces up some
should brighten it up a bit

[Bluzboy66]

Originally Posted by Encinitastubes

This is my first post. I'm new to the Les Paul world, having recently purchased a new R8 (well, 2005, but purchased new) that is just incredible; real lively when played acoustically........

The low E is muddy, it's hard to get a good clean sound that still lets me lay into it to get sustain, and the chords don't blend that well.........

Congrats on the R8. Fellow R8 (2001) owner here!

Like LP Johnny mentioned, the first thing I would suggest is for you to lower the neck pickup away from the strings, down to where the pickup cover is level with the ring itself. Then you can tweak it from there. Pulling the pickup away from the strings will allow the guitar to 'breathe' a little. The signal won't be as hot, and you'll be able to pick a bit harder without excessive compression. Once you have the overall signal output and clarity in check, go ahead and adjust the polepiece screws to follow the arch of the strings across the fretboard radius. The idea is to balance the string-to-string signal. Give it a shot. It's reversible!

Mike

[DeafDumbBlind Kid]

yes, +1 on the lowering the pickup. Gibson usually puts string height/pickup adjustments in with the hang tags, but I've always considered those just a guideline, rather than a hard and fast rule. They made up those guidelines years ago when the humbucker was just a new babe. Today's Burstbuckers are more consistent and probably more output than the original PAFs. Tone is subjective, of course, but let's work with what we've got. Also, don't over look the effect of set-up on tone. If you adjust the pickups, and then have to tweak the trussrod, you'll have to tweak the pickups again. Make sure the guitar is set-up, then do the pickups.

Lower the pickups to the rings, and then adjust them up, a half turn at a time. Learn the range, get real close to the string and see how that changes the sound. then lower it again, and raise it until it sounds 'right'. Then adjust the polepieces to follow the arc of the strings, and lower the pickup again, and raise it.

You might find perhaps the B string to be a little louder than the E or G, so you might have to lower that polepiece a half turn. I think the D string also does this, but it varies from guitar to guitar. it is all about finding balance.

When dialing in pickups, do not use any effects, just guitar-cord-amp. Shut the reverb off. Shut the trem off. Bring the gain way down. Get the guitar sounding good clean, it will sound good when the amp is mean. Have a small srewdriver right where where you can reach it, while sitting with the guitar in your lap. Get comfortable, you might be there for a while.

Don't get frustrated. If you've never done this before, it takes time to teach your ear what to listen for. Again, it is about balance. You're trying to find the sweet spot, where you get good output, good string balance and pickup balance. If your bridge is way louder than the neck, lower it. After you've been doing it for a while and if you're still not happy, take a break. You'll be working your ear hard, and it will get fatigued.

If you know any experienced players/techs, pick their brains. Most would probably be more than willing to help. If you like their sound, then that's a good person to learn from. Good luck, and welcome to the madness.

[Encinitastubes]

Thanks. I just spent the morning playing with the pickup height and comparing it with the 335. Interestingly, lowering the pickups took care of the mud and also fixed some tuning problems that I was having. I wonder if the height was pulling my B string sharp.

The pickups are pretty low now, maybe flush with the neck side of the ring, but below the bridge side. Still, I have to turn the guitar volume down to about 6.5 to equal the volume of the 335 on 10. Not a bad sound, but I'd like to be able to get a clean tone without the grit. Are the Burstbuckers a hotter pickup? Would an underwound pickup to the job?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by Encinitastubes

Thanks. I just spent the morning playing with the pickup height and comparing it with the 335. Interestingly, lowering the pickups took care of the mud and also fixed some tuning problems that I was having. I wonder if the height was pulling my B string sharp.

The pickups are pretty low now, maybe flush with the neck side of the ring, but below the bridge side. Still, I have to turn the guitar volume down to about 6.5 to equal the volume of the 335 on 10. Not a bad sound, but I'd like to be able to get a clean tone without the grit. Are the Burstbuckers a hotter pickup? Would an underwound pickup to the job?

The Burstbuckers are a tad hotter, I would contact either Will, at WB for Underwounds, or some of the other winders, Lindy Fralin is another one that could , From what I have learned here, magnets can also play a huge part of it, You also could possibly change one tube in your amp rig if its tube to lower the gain, therefore cutting some of the distortion output of your pickups

[tom1263]

Now look fellows, if he's not happy, he's not happy.....To remedy the problem, I could say offer some cash to take it off his hands.....If it's a flamer and he's interested, please shoot me an email......Can't seem to find a decent priced R8

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by tom1263

Now look fellows, if he's not happy, he's not happy.....To remedy the problem, I could say offer some cash to take it off his hands.....If it's a flamer and he's interested, please shoot me an email......Can't seem to find a decent priced R8

Being its a 2005, I doubt its flamed since no chambering is mentioned Tom Man I seen a few good priced R8's on Ebay

[tom1263]

Hey Don,

Haven't seen any decent priced ones on Ebay recently. Still looking, if ya find one, let me know

Thanks, Tom

[Encinitastubes]

I'm not ready to sell just yet. As I said above, I'm new to the Les Paul world so I'm trying to figure out what this guitar can do. I think also that my amp might not have enough headroom to be a match for what I'm looking for. I really like Robben Ford's Les Paul tone with Larry Carlton, it's more raw than his standard tone. A Dumble, though, is not an option. Any recommendations on an affordable alternative - maybe in the $1,500 range?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by Encinitastubes

I'm not ready to sell just yet. As I said above, I'm new to the Les Paul world so I'm trying to figure out what this guitar can do. I think also that my amp might not have enough headroom to be a match for what I'm looking for. I really like Robben Ford's Les Paul tone with Larry Carlton, it's more raw than his standard tone. A Dumble, though, is not an option. Any recommendations on an affordable alternative - maybe in the $1,500 range?

A Fender Twin

[CrazyD]

One guitar is a Les Paul and the other a 335...you can't get a Les Paul to do the 335 thing by changing the LP's pickups.

335's have that 'airy/acoustic' humbucking tone that is magical...never heard it on any other guitar.

[LouieTM]

Originally Posted by CrazyD

One guitar is a Les Paul and the other a 335...you can't get a Les Paul to do the 335 thing by changing the LP's pickups.

335's have that 'airy/acoustic' humbucking tone that is magical...never heard it on any other guitar.

Two and a half year old thread, man. TWO AND A HALF!
And the OP hasn't posted in a year on MLP.

[FennRx]

how and why do people even find these old threads? maybe it's funny to resurrect them? beats me....

[rob9]

Originally Posted by FennRx

how and why do people even find these old threads? maybe it's funny to resurrect them? beats me....

Search function?

[guitarbob123]

its sort of a catch 22. they make a new thread and they get told to do a search as the thread has been done before. they use the searchbar and resurrect a thread and then get told off for resurrecting an old thread.

[Callaway]

Got to admit I've fallen for the two year old thread chase before until recently I hadn't really been checking dates but there seems to be some antiques coming up with more frequency lately. Funny how it works if someone jumps on one it become follow the leader until you 5 or 6 guys responding to the tread from beyond the grave.

[LouieTM]

Originally Posted by guitarbob123

its sort of a catch 22. they make a new thread and they get told to do a search as the thread has been done before. they use the searchbar and resurrect a thread and then get told off for resurrecting an old thread.

That's true, it does happen a lot around here.
However in this particular case, answering to questions asked 2.5 years ago by a guy who hasn't been active on the forum for more than a year, is beyond pointless.