2003 historic LP goldtop question about price

[mjarema414]

Hi, I saw a 2003 Historic goldtop reissue (R7) for 1999.00. Is this a good price used? IT's from a local seller so I am able to play it. They're going for less on Ebay but I'd definitely like to play it first. Thanks very much. THis is a great forum. I have 2 SG's and looking for my first Les Paul. I'll be in here often!

[Liam]

Do they go for much less than that on ebay? 2003 reissues are pretty thin on the ground IME, so I guess people must be keeping them.

I assume you're in the USA, so talking $2000 US. Sounds like a pretty good price if the guitar is in good condition and comes with all the certification, case, etc. - you're not going to get another guitar in the same league for that sort of money - it's less than a new VOS Junior.

(But I'm in the UK of course - they fetch more like $3000 US here, or £1500 sterling.)

[Mike60]

IMO,2k is a so-so price for an '03...you should be able to bring it down a hundred or so...

[Fixxxer]

I think they went for 1900 new, I would shoot for 1750.

[mjarema414]

Originally Posted by Fixxxer

I think they went for 1900 new, I would shoot for 1750.

Wow! Really? The seller said they paid 2300.00 used. It makes me think that I should keep researching. I played it tonight and really like it but am uncertain if I should pay 2000.00 for it. The seller seems firm with regard to their price.

[Mike60]

...well,make him an offer...

[Fixxxer]

If you like it make an offer, and offer a cash deal as well to save them on fees etc. at 1999, you could save a few more bucks and just get a new R8 with the Gibson warranty, which may not seem like allot, but when you need to get the work done (and you will) it helps to have it.

Given the fact its plek'd etc, that alone may be worth haggling.

Don't be in a hurry to buy at 2k you can have allot of options. Also remember the 57 has the biggest of the necks.

HOWEVER, throw that out the window if you love the guitar. If you love the guitar and have to have it, then look to knock 100 dollars off, and congrats on your new guitar.

fixxxer

PS,
Don't worry just because you play 2 SG's you are more than welcomed here.

=)

[mjarema414]

Thanks for the help. WHat's the difference between R7-R9 etc? Is this just the reissue year? So R7 would just be a 57 reissue? It's really hard for me to pick up a les paul and not want to take it home. I've played a few within that last couple of years and enjoyed every one of them.

[Liam]

WHat's the difference between R7-R9 etc? Is this just the reissue year? So R7 would just be a 57 reissue?

Yes, R6 is Goldtop with single coils; R7 Goldtop with humbuckers; R8 is sunburst, generally plain top; R9 sunburst, generally flametop, R0 sunburst, generally flametop, with thinner neck. The R? numbers are stamped inside the control panel. I've been trying to put together a history of historics thread - 2003 is a good year for features!

As for price, R7s retail for $4751 at the moment, MF have them for $3099. Plaintop R8s are exactly the same price,retail and discounted. Used values are extremely dependent on condition.

New historics are in "VOS" (vintage original spec) finish. This means that metal parts are "aged", and the time consuming final polish isn't needed. You have to pay an upcharge to get a shiny one. In 2003 they were supllied shiny, and you had to pay an upcharge to get them "aged". Aged examples tend to be worth more used, depending on who aged them.

In 2003 a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard was available special order. If you contact Gibson with the serial number of the 03 R7 they can tell you if it had this. I believe it's rare for all but the R9s, but it pushes up the value appreciably.

Personally I wouldn't hold off buying a guitar of that sort of value for the sake of $100 or so. I'm not sure I buy Fixxer's

Gibson warranty, which may not seem like allot, but when you need to get the work done (and you will) it helps to have it.

as I can't remember ever needing warranty work done by Gibson, but I agree 100% with

If you love the guitar and have to have it, then look to knock 100 dollars off, and congrats on your new guitar.

Finally, in the long term earlier reissues are likely to be worth a bit more, as they were making less of them. But you are definitely looking at a guitar that should hold its value in the long term, may even turn out to be a good investment.

Hope all that isn't too boring - I'm very surprised R7s were as cheap as $1900 brand new in 2003 - but it still doesn't seem a ridiculous se condhand price to me. What's the condition like?

Liam

[dwagar]

If the serial is 7 3707 or less, grab it. (Brazilian numbers)

And IMO it is worth a bit more being that you can play it, look it over, and take it home, as opposed to buying blind off the bay.

[Liam]

Just to clarify what DW said, not ALL pre 7 3707 fingerboards were Brazilian (AFAIK), just means there's a chance of it. If you phone Gibson with the Serial # they'll let you know.

Definitely agree that having the chance to play the guitar rather than buy it blind is worth something!

[dwagar]

really? I thought that all the '03 R7's up to and including that number were Brazilian.

[Liam]

I was prretty sure it was an upgrade, but was unavailable from that serial number onwards. Best to phone Gibson to check, they seem to have kept pretty good records.

The 2003 models have all the usual Historic niceties from earlier models, but were the first year for Bumblebee caps, CTS pots, and Burstbucker pickups.

Have a look here for a contemporary report on them:

Musician's Friend - Hands On Review - Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Reissues

But if it is Brazilian, the price seems more than reasonable to me.

Liam

$2000 is the going rate for a NON BRW R7!! BRW R7 bring in the $3.5K-$4.5K range. The first few 03 R7s were NOT BRW, and in the 7 3001 to 7 3707 range 28 were R7 Juniors per Gibson!

And here is Gibson's word on the early R7s of 2003:
1, 5, 6, and 7 have 2002 specs
2 and 3 are LP Juniors
4 is an '03 prototype, so should have brazilian
8, 9 and 10 i don't have any info on these...i don't believe they ever left the building

[mjarema414]

Thanks for all of the great info on this. I don't think it is Brazilian according to the owner but I'm in the process of getting the serial #. I didn't copy it down after I played it. I really appreciate the help and thoughts regarding this instrument.

[mjarema414]

serial # is 73923..most likely not BRW. People have said again that they've seen a few on Ebay going for 1800 or so. I agree that playing the opportunity to play it is priceless. Plus, you never know what could happen to the guitar in shipping. This one is close to mint condition but I certainly be putting some milelage on it if I buy it.

[dwagar]

personally, I'd pay the extra $200-300 to be able to look at it and play it first.

No worries about damage in shipping, no worries about 'surprises' when the guitar arrives.

[Danelectro]

I paid $1850 for my Brazilian R7 in '03

[mjarema414]

Originally Posted by Danelectro

I paid $1850 for my Brazilian R7 in '03

The serial on this guitar is # is 73923. I'm assuming this one is not BRW. Do you know if these guitars appreciated since 2003 regarding the non-BRW? I'm trying to gather as much info as possible. Thanks!

[Liam]

Do you know if these guitars appreciated since 2003 regarding the non-BRW?

Here's a non BRW R7 from 2000.

GIBSON LES PAUL GOLD TOP 1957 HISTORIC '57 RI GOLDTOP!! on eBay, also Gibson, Electric, Guitar, Musical Instruments (end time 18-Dec-07 03:36:02 GMT)

Here in the UK we pay a bit more, another non BRW. The seller says this one has Burstbuckers in it, but the neck inlays and fingerboard color make me think this is from around 2001. 2003 has more convincing period features.

Gibson Les Paul 57 Reissue Gold Top Historic Collection on eBay, also Gibson, Electric, Guitars, Musical Instruments (end time 23-Dec-07 21:00:00 GMT)

(£1500 is about $3000 USD)

Of course people ask a lot of money for aged examples. This 2002 looks like a non BRW to me, but it's a lot of money, so maybe it is.

2002 Gibson Les Paul Historic 1957 goldtop guitar on eBay, also Gibson, Electric, Guitar, Musical Instruments (end time 24-Dec-07 05:57:27 GMT)

You could buy the 03, get it made inot a true 50s spec and aged at Historic Makeovers for about the same money.

I'm not saying you can't find R7s for $1750 USD, it's just that I've not seen any lately. Historic Gibsons appear to have been appreciating over the last few years (though nothing like as fast as real 50s Gibsons), but they are making quite a few of them now, so I don't know how long that will continue. Like kink56, $2000 seems to be about the going rate.

[mjarema414]

Originally Posted by Liam

I'm not saying you can't find R7s for $1750 USD, it's just that I've not seen any lately. Historic Gibsons appear to have been appreciating over the last few years (though nothing like as fast as real 50s Gibsons), but they are making quite a few of them now, so I don't know how long that will continue. Like kink56, $2000 seems to be about the going rate.

Thanks. I saw that newer ones are going for about 3400 on MF and about 2500 on Ebay. I really like the neck on the R7 and haven't seen too many in close to mint condition. This 2003 R7 looks like it spent most of its life in the case or on a wall.

[Liam]

You've done me no favours with this thread - I've now got half an eye out for an R6 or R7 - they are really good value for money! (or even an R4 for that matter)

I'm trying to work out why you still need convincing - if you knew it was the guitar for you, you probably would have bought it by now. Or you're just about to....

[DeafDumbBlind Kid]

Originally Posted by Liam

In 2003 a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard was available special order.

actually, all the 2003s up to May 31st, 2003 were made with brazilian boards. I bought about a half dozen or more just walking into my favorite guitar shop. The story goes that Henry J (owner/CEO) found out that the brazilian was being used again, and killed the program, citing the CITES (sp?) agreement signed by the US and a ton of other countries to ban the exporting/importing of newly cut brazilian rosewood trees. Stumpwood from previously cut trees was/is still legal. Old stock is still legal.

There is a database available that has the serial numbers of the confirmed braz boards. IMHO, it is nice to have, if you can spare the premium $$$ these go for now. For less money, you can have any LP redone with a braz board, they usually look better. A lot of the 2003 braz LPs had really swirly stumpwood boards, I've had a few.

Frankly, my 2006 R0 has a dark, almost black board that looks as braz as a real '50s board, and that is good enough for me.

[Liam]

Thanks for the correction on Brazilian boards.

Frankly, my 2006 R0 has a dark, almost black board that looks as braz as a real '50s board, and that is good enough for me.

My 2002 R9 has a very attractive dark rosewood board that's also not brazilian according to Gibson. I'm assuming the exotic wood agreement was for a reason, so in a way happy it's not one of them.

[ashbass]

If the seller had to ebay it, he wouldn't get 2K, *and* he'd eat a lot regarding ebay and paypal fees. I'd go $1800 cash in hand if it is mint. Seller still makes out. If seller paid $2300 for it used, he got suckered. Don't you do the same. '03s are not plekked btw.

[mjarema414]

Originally Posted by ashbass

If the seller had to ebay it, he wouldn't get 2K, *and* he'd eat a lot regarding ebay and paypal fees. I'd go $1800 cash in hand if it is mint. Seller still makes out. If seller paid $2300 for it used, he got suckered. Don't you do the same. '03s are not plekked btw.

Ash, what does "plekked" mean? Hopefully it's not too stupid of a question.

[Mike60]

...frets are levelled on a machine is basically what it amounts to,IMO this method cuts down on the number of bad fret jobs out of the factory...

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Mike60

cuts down on the number of bad fret jobs out of the factory...

And it must be said, the factory fret job on my '01 R9 was shockingly poor. Only took a couple of hours to make it play OK though.

[ReverendJWblues]

Originally Posted by mjarema414

Wow! Really? The seller said they paid 2300.00 used. It makes me think that I should keep researching. I played it tonight and really like it but am uncertain if I should pay 2000.00 for it. The seller seems firm with regard to their price.

If he told ya that they paid 2300.00 I wouldnt buy from him cost on a new one isnt even that much. Just my opinion but 1500.00 fom me ad thats if I really lovd it. But the American way is screw who ya can. Good luck.

[mjarema414]

Originally Posted by ReverendJWblues

If he told ya that they paid 2300.00 I wouldnt buy from him cost on a new one isnt even that much. Just my opinion but 1500.00 fom me ad thats if I really lovd it. But the American way is screw who ya can. Good luck.

It looks like the new goldtop reissues are going for 3400.00 according to MF. Check it out...Buy Gibson Custom Shop 57 Les Paul Goldtop Reissue Electric Guitar online