History of Historics

[Liam]

I've often wondered, now that Historic Les Pauls have been with us for so long, when various features appeared and disappeared. I'm kind of hoping to get a list together of years of introduction/disappearance of various features. Feel free to add to the list - and even more so to put a date next to an item. If it gets good enough it might get "sticky", but if it's too much like trainspotting let it drop to the bottom and we can forget I posted it. Feel free to correct dates if you have better info

Sunbursts.

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1992
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced ??
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Big headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Long tenon body
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers
Bumblebee caps
CTS pots
Authentic neck profiles
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
Plain tops available
VOS

We could do the same for:

Junior/Special
Custom

The history of all these is much bigger than the original guitars, I'd love to put some dates to it all.

Liam

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by Liam

I've often wondered, now that Historic Les Pauls have been with us for so long, when various features appeared and disappeared. I'm kind of hoping to get a list together of years of introduction/disappearance of various features. Feel free to add to the list - and even more so to put a date next to an item. If it gets good enough it might get "sticky", but if it's too much like trainspotting let it drop to the bottom and we can forget I posted it. Feel free to correct dates if you have better info

Sunbursts.

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1992
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced ??
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Big headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Long tenon body
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers
Bumblebee caps
CTS pots
Authentic neck profiles
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
Plain tops available
VOS

We could do the same for:

Junior/Special
Custom

The history of all these is much bigger than the original guitars, I'd love to put some dates to it all.

Liam

Laim 59 Re issues in the Norlin era started as early as 83, maybe 82, with Leo's and Guitar Trader Re Issues and Jimmy Wallace,Have yet to see a 52 Re issue but 54's sometime in the late 90s
Long Tenon necks and Holly vaneer heastocks were part of 50s original Les Pauls, as was nitrocell,

[Liam]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Long Tenon necks and Holly vaneer heastocks were part of 50s original Les Pauls, as was nitrocell,

Certainly were. But did all the reissues have them? I thought they were introduced in the late 80s maybe even early 90s - just wondered if anyone knew when. Similarly I gather the necks on early '59s were not as chunky as they became when the '60 reissue came out, so wondered if 1992 was the first year they bothered making the neck profiles "authentic".

(I've got a 1990 USA Standard that has what we would now call a 60s profile neck, but when the Classic came out they started making the Standard necks chunkier to differentiate. Or so it appeared to me.)

59 Re issues in the Norlin era started as early as 83, maybe 82, with Leo's and Guitar Trader Re Issues and Jimmy Wallace

Really? I'm sure in the UK we just got the "Heritage" models, which were basically a standard with different machine heads and curly tops. Little attempt to make them into a reissue. The Bacon and Day book lists the first year of reissues as 1985.

54's sometime in the late 90s

Bacon and Day have gone for 1992 for this, but if no-one can corroborate this I'll move it back into the late 90s.

Anyhow, thanks for the info, I've updated the list, and added a something I'd forgotten....

Sunbursts.

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985 (Could even be 82/83)
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1992
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced ?? ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Correct body binding around cutaway
Long tenon body
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars acailable from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2007?

Junior/Special


Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1992
Custom reissue '68

[Liam]

Added some more dates/features to the list before we finally let it sink. Am I really the only one here weird enough to have an interest in all this?

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985 (Could even be 82/83)
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1992
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced ?? ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Correct body binding around cutaway
Long tenon body
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2007?
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop bar)
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck)
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1992
Custom reissue '68

[BOBBO]

This is an interesting idea Liam !!

[lp59aholicDon]

[QUOTE=Liam;40228]Certainly were. But did all the reissues have them? I thought they were introduced in the late 80s maybe even early 90s - just wondered if anyone knew when. Similarly I gather the necks on early '59s were not as chunky as they became when the '60 reissue came out, so wondered if 1992 was the first year they bothered making the neck profiles "authentic".

(I've got a 1990 USA Standard that has what we would now call a 60s profile neck, but when the Classic came out they started making the Standard necks chunkier to differentiate. Or so it appeared to me.)*



Really? I'm sure in the UK we just got the "Heritage" models, which were basically a standard with different machine heads and curly tops. Little attempt to make them into a reissue.
Series 80 Heritage came stock with Grover machine heads and Tim Shaw pickups

The Bacon and Day book lists the first year of reissues as 1985. Bacon and Day have gone for 1992 for this, but if no-one can corroborate this I'll move it back into the late 90s.
Anyhow, thanks for the info, I've updated the list, and added a something I'd forgotten....

90 was the first year of the 60 Re Issues and they began to have smaller necks then, Some Standards and even slightly later 59s got 60s neck profiles
If you look closely at a Heritage 80s on the bout of the cutaway you can tell it was cut differently than Standards , One way to quickly eyball identify one without a pickguard
Heritage 80s also have a second numbering sequence below the Made in USA Stamp

[Liam]

Thanks Don,

List updated with those changes:

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985 (Could even be 82/83)
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1990
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced ?? ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Correct body binding around cutaway
Long tenon body
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2007?
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1
60s neck available from 1990

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop bar)
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck)
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1992
Custom reissue '68

[dwagar]

I'm not positive on these but I'll try

VOS I think started last year? '06?
The only non wire ABR1 afaik was '02?
LW TP came in '01 I think.
Burstbuckers I think '02
(my '01R9 had Classic 57's and LW TP)
'03 also corrected the angle of the tuners I think.

[Liam]

Thanks!...info added

(my '01R9 had Classic 57's and LW TP)

My one is the same. Not sure if Burstbuckers turned up at the same time as fake bumblebees, and when the pots were changed. I've put your estimates of dates in for the moment and people can correct as we go along.

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985 (Could even be 82/83)
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1990
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced ?? ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Corrected tuner angle 2003
Correct body binding around cutaway
Long tenon body
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers 2002
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2006
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1
Non wired ABR1 2002 only
60s neck available from 1990

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop bar)
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck)
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1992
Custom reissue '68

[sewood]

Liam-The first 58RI were done in 1993 with less than 100 made. Same for 94 and in 95 approx 100 were done. If you have a 93 or 94, chances are it was painted by Tom Murphy.

[TM1]

What year did the Historic Division open with their own, separate building? Almost all of the "reissue's" before that division was started used regular production guitars that were pulled of the line and made into "Custom Shop" guitars.
I would think that you would separate them into two sections: Pre-Historic Division and Historic.

[idlewild south]

TM,how can you stretch a tenon?

[Liam]

Thanks for further info. Don't know when the Historic Division moved. probably easier to separate into guitars made by "Gibson USA" and guitars made by "Custom, Art and Historic" division. I know the Custom, Art and Historic shop was running in the early/mid 90s, but genuine new Historics were like hen's teeth here in the UK.

Sewood, why do I get the feeling you could contribute quite a lot to this list? (Stole the '54 info from another thread...)

Going to ponder the best way to do that so for the meanwhile I've updated a little...

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985 (Could even be 82/83)
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1990
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced 1993 - 1995 ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '54 reissue 2001 - 2004
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Corrected tuner angle 2003
Correct body binding around cutaway
Long tenon body/neck join
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers 2002
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2006
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1
Non wired ABR1 2002 only
60s neck available from 1990

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck)
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1992
Custom reissue '68

[FUS44]

What about the inlays? 2003 for the more accurate inlays?
Weren't there also several minute changes like PU distance, horn shape, tuner layout, headstock thickness in the late 90's into the 2000's?


I'm not totally sure...

NOT including the Leo's, Jimmy Wallace, Guitar Trader, Strings and Things etc. The Flametop RI (not called 59 RI yet) started in 1983. The Goldtop RI Started in 1984. The R8 Started in mid 1994. They did not make R8s in 1999 or 2000. The Long tenon begain in late 1993 with the advent of the Historics. The correct inlays were on the 91-93 PreHistorics because they took on the appointments of the Classic. The Historic Prototypes had the correct inlays as well, but the PRODUCTION Historics did not! (a purposeful error on Gibson's part) The correct inlays first reappeared on the 2002 R9 (of which they only made 300) Then all Historics got them in 2003.

Custom 54 RI 1991
Custom 57 RI 1991
59 Flametop RI 1991
60 Flametop RI 1991
None of these had long tenons yet. That began with the Historics in late 93 when they changed the SN format.


R2 1998
R4 1997
Historic RI Special 1997 (catalog in 1998)
Historic RI Junior 1997 (catalog in 1998)

There are many versions of the Junior and Special that were Reissues before these dates, but they were not Historics. Even today many people get various versions of Juniors, Specials, and SG RIs confused with the Historic versions!

[sewood]

Originally Posted by Liam

Thanks for further info. Don't know when the Historic Division moved. probably easier to separate into guitars made by "Gibson USA" and guitars made by "Custom, Art and Historic" division. I know the Custom, Art and Historic shop was running in the early/mid 90s, but genuine new Historics were like hen's teeth here in the UK.

Sewood, why do I get the feeling you could contribute quite a lot to this list? (Stole the '54 info from another thread...)

Going to ponder the best way to do that so for the meanwhile I've updated a little...

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1985 (Could even be 82/83)
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1990
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced 1993 - 1995 ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1985
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989
Les Paul '54 reissue 2001 - 2004
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced ??
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Corrected tuner angle 2003
Correct body binding around cutaway
Long tenon body/neck join
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers 2002
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2006
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1
Non wired ABR1 2002 only
60s neck available from 1990

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop-bar)
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck)
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1992
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1992
Custom reissue '68

Liam--I got all my information from Phil Jones who is the head of the Historic Restoration Division. He and Tom Murphy were the principal guys who started the Custom Shop / Historic Division in late 1992 with the first guitars put out in 1993. The old early "Standard 80's" were Gibsons first attempt to make a real 59RI. I had one and it was a good guitar but weighed over 10lbs. My 58 & 59 Murphys weigh in at 8.4 & 8.6.

I have not heard of or seen a 1993 R8. The first R8s came in later 94 and only 50 were made and all painted by Murphy. Murphy painted the first 15 R7s in 93 and the first 25 R9s in 93 and all the 94 R7s and R9s until he left Nov 2, 1994, of which there are only 200 R9s that he finished in 1994. The remaining 150 (or so) R9s of 94 he did not paint. This was back when it was a CUSTOM shop and not just another manufacturing division, which now makes over 2000 R9s a year alone.

[Liam]

OK, updates added. Hope I got them all on there. Many thanks to sewood and kink56. Don't know if anyone else is starting to enjoy the list, but I am. Can we avoid any flames? I'm just going on what seems to be the best information available. This isn't a gospel, it's just a bit of history that will hopefully help people out when they're buying a Historic or Reissue Les Paul.

All proper Historic Gibsons unless noted with **, in which case Gibson USA "reissues"

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980 **
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1983 **
Les Paul "Flametop" reissue introduced 1991 **
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1991 **
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced 1993 - 1995 ("Re-introduced" in 2001 with "less figured" Top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1984 **
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989 **
Genuine "Custom shop" Historics from late 1993
Les Paul '54 reissue 1997 - 2004
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced 1998 (I know they sold some in 2002, was it the end?)
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Corrected tuner angle 2003
Correct body binding around cutaway
Correct inlays, 2002 for R9, 2003 for rest of range
Long tenon body/neck join 1993 -
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers 2002
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2006
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1
Non wired ABR1 2002 only

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar) **
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop-bar) **
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979 **
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck) **
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.) **
Historic RI Special 1997 (catalog in 1998)
Historic RI Junior 1997 (catalog in 1998)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1991
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1991
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1991
Custom reissue '68 (still waiting for this...)

Feel free to comment on accuracy - I'm keen for people to argue, less keen for people to fall out....

Flametop RI 1983
59 or 60 RI in 1991.
In 2001 and 2002 R8s had figured tops. 2003 (expect for one special order) R8s were plaintops.
In 1999 and 2000 R9s could be had as Plaintops as there are NO R8s.

Burstbuckers started appearing in 2001. 2000 for the Gary Moore.

[idlewild south]

There is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by idlewild south

There is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread.

Idlewild, can you post, or pm me, and explain. The original info I got mainly from Bacon and Day, The Les Paul Book, and a couple of other guitar books of the period. But some of it from my own memory as a Gibson employee in the mid 90s. The comments I have received and aded so far at least seem believable to me.

I don't want any flame wars, I am more than happy for the list to contain educated guesses until more definite information appears.

Just telling me it's wrong doesn't help. I am trying to piece together a story. Unfortunately history is generally subjective, so even those that were there remember things slightly (or sometimes completely) differently. It is a well documented trait of human memory, and does not in any way imply deceit.

[Liam]

kink56, see what you mean, misinterpreted that one somehow.

Are we going to start putting Custom Shop signature editions in? What about Gibson USA signature editions?

All proper Historic Gibsons unless noted with **, in which case Gibson USA "reissues"

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980 **
Les Paul "Flametop" reissue introduced 1983 **
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1991 **
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1991 **
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced 1993 - 1995 ("Re-introduced" for 2001/2 with "less figured" Top, from 2003 as plain top)
Les Paul '57 reissue introduced 1984 **
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989 **
Genuine "Custom shop" Historics from late 1993
Les Paul '54 reissue 1997 - 2004
Les Paul '59 "Plain Top" available 1999 - 2000
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced 1998 (I know they sold some in 2002, was it the end?)
Nitro cellulose finish
Nickel hardware
Small headstock
Holly veneer headstock
Corrected tuner angle 2003
Correct body binding around cutaway
Correct inlays, 2002 for R9, 2003 for rest of range
Long tenon body/neck join 1993 -
Classic 57 pickups
Burstbuckers 2001 (but in Gary Moore sig. from 2000)
Bumblebee caps 2003
CTS pots 2003
Authentic neck profiles 1992?
Brazilian rosewood fingerboards available ?-2003?
Tops get ridiculously "curly"
"Aged" guitars available from factory
Plain tops available 2001?
VOS 2006
Lightweight tailpiece
Wired ABR1
Non wired ABR1 2002 only

Junior/Special

Les Paul Junior '54 1986-1991 (Not stop-bar) **
Les Paul Junior '58 (DC) 1986-1987 (Not stop-bar) **
Les Paul Special '58 1976-1979 **
Les Paul Special Single cut reissue 1988 - 1998 (Grovers and P100, not stop bar, available HC, TSB or TV yellow, 60s neck) **
Les Paul "Junior" Special 1999? - 2003 ("Green" kluson type, P100s, not stop bar, only available in natural finish. Supposed to be 60s neck but quite chunky.) **
Historic RI Special 1997 (catalog in 1998)
Historic RI Junior 1997 (catalog in 1998)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1991
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1991
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1991
Custom reissue '68 (still waiting for this...)

Feel free to comment on accuracy - but PLEASE tell me what we've got wrong.

The customshop has been around awhile. However the HISTORIC division started in late 1993. The Heritage series was not the first reissues. Many of the dealer reissues predated them.

If you want to keep your scope limited to PRODUCTION reissues, whether it be the Regular Gibson RIs or the Historic RIs, that will keep your hands full, because there is still much work to be done. You have also left out the 30th anniversary GT from 82-83. The Standard 82 from 1982 (Kalamazoo's answer to the Heritage series) the Standard 83 (Nashville's answer to the Standard 82!) The Standard CMT of the late 80s, which was a regular production Standard, emulating the Flametop Reissue.

After we get this done, we can work on the Special Dealer Reissues!

Historics begin in late 1993. Regular production Reissues began in 1983 (Heritage and others notwithstanding)

Sunbursts

Heritage Les Paul introduced 1980
Les Paul Standard 82 1982
Les Paul Goldtop 30th anniversary 1982-1983
Les Paul Standard 83 1983
Les Paul "Flametop" reissue introduced 1983
Les Paul Standard CMT 1986-1989
Les Paul '59 reissue introduced 1991 Becomes R9 in late 1993
Les Paul '60 reissue introduced 1991 Becomes R0 in late 1993
Les Paul '58 reissue introduced 1994 94-98/03-on PT, 96-98, 01-02 figured top
Les Paul GT reissue introduced 1984 Becomes R7 in late 1993
Les Paul '56 reissue introduced 1989 Becomes R6 in late 1993 or so.
Genuine "Custom shop" Historics from late 1993 is where Flametop and Goldtop RIs become R9 and R7.
Les Paul '54 reissue 1997 - 2004 (still availible by special order)
Les Paul '59 "Plain Top" available 1999 - 2000
Les Paul '52 reissue introduced 1998 (I know they sold some in 2002, was it the end?)-----yes I believe so!
Les Paul Special 1960 RI introduced 1997
Les Paul Historic versions of the Junior introduced in 1997 (R7, R8, R0 different years, now R7 or R8 only)

Historic RI Special 1997 (catalog in 1998)
Historic RI Junior 1997 (catalog in 1998)

Custom

Black Beauty '54 Reissue 1991 Become Historics in 93-94 period
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 2PU 1991 " "
Black Beauty '57 Reissue 3PU 1991 " "
Custom reissue '68 2000



I have updated the best I can....help, comments welcome.

[Mike60]

Originally Posted by idlewild south

There is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread.

+1

[Liam]

Originally Posted by idlewild south

There is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread.

Originally Posted by Mike60

+1

Is there any special reason why you can't tell anyone exactly which bits are misinformation? (By which I assume you mean mistakes, misinformation infers that someone is deliberately misleading others). When you both say an amazing amount are you saying 30% is wrong? Or 50%? Maybe even more?

The reason I started this thread was because I thought it might be an interesting exercise to piece together some history. Thanks for your contribution Have a nice day!

Liam When you are satisfied with an update, I would suggest deleting the previous list as it gets updated. Any reader will start with the first list, rather than the latest. And, in general, it this works as planned, the first list will be less accurate than later lists.

ALL sources seem to have SOME mistakes or overlook something. The Tony Bacon book is excellent, but not without error. (some are simply editorial problems) The Price guides are a source, but MANY errors in the Les Paul section. The Mike Slubowski articles and the Walter Carter articles are superb.

[Liam]

kink56,

Thanks for that, it was an unexpected outburst on my part. Maybe they haven't understood that the first list was bound to be flawed.

Unfortunately I can't delete all the old lists, as the messages are mainly too old. Maybe a kind moderator would have the power to do this...

For anyone else - if there are mistakes or points of argument, please say what they are...

I'd still like to try to put together a "USA reissue" list as well as the genuine Historic (I'm mad about Specials with P100s, I know it's wrong, but I am!) I would also like to get a few more "features" into the list. I'll have another look at the story so far tomorrow, and maybe start another thread so I can delete lists as they are superceded.

Liam