History of Historics

Well you have to define "reissue" I mean the 68 GT was a reissue of a 56 GT the 71 Standard 58 was a reissue of the 54 GT. There were quite a few Customs, the 68 a RI of the 57 Custom in 71 they had a RI of the 54 Custom. These Specials you are referring to are not really RIs because they have a TOM. Make too broad a stroke, and you might as well just cut and paste Bacon's book!

The linage of the Historics and the evolution of progressively more "accurate" appointments would keep us going for months!
1997 pickguard dimensions blueprinted, thus revealing heretofor bridge PUP misplacement. (bridge PUP misplaced sometime in the early 70s I THINK)

1999....tortiose side markers, and corrected bridge PUP placement.

[Liam]

Point taken.

What's a TOM?

I'd like to just keep going for months on accuracy of appointments rather than dilute what we've got so far...will add the new features tomorrow, and maybe start a new thread so I can lose the "inaccurate" lists.

Liam

Tune-o-matic bridge. The original Juniors and Specials (and Historic versions) have only a Stoptail piece like the mid 53-mid 55 Goldtops.

[Liam]

Yep, familiar with that. Think I even noted that the "reissues" didn't have the "stop bar" as one of their many inaccuracies in one of the lists. Still love them though!

[pinefd]

Liam,

I hadn't checked out this thread previously. Thanks for your PM. I may have several historics, but I got into the game quite late, so my knowledge of the historic line is quite limited.

One thing I can contribute, is with regard to the Brazilian boards. There were a very limited number of guitars produced in '01 and '02 with BRW, and more in '03. Some claim to have BRW boards produced after '03, but Gibson will never verify it.

If I think of anything else, I'll chime in.

Frank

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by Liam

Point taken.

What's a TOM?

I'd like to just keep going for months on accuracy of appointments rather than dilute what we've got so far...will add the new features tomorrow, and maybe start a new thread so I can lose the "inaccurate" lists.

Liam

Liam Brother, TOM is short for Tune O Matic Bridge

A bit confusing. Custom Shop as I mentioned has been around since at least 1982, as a section in the Nashville plant. The Custom, Art, and Historic DIVISION started in 1993, separte bulding in 1994. The Historic SERIES started in 1991, they made the Flying V reissues, and other NON LP reissues, and also in 1991 the LP Customs joined the Historic SERIES as did the split between 1960 and 1959 RI Flametops. Still NOT the TRUE Historic RIs we consider today, which began with the late 1993 with the R7s, and R9s. I am STILL trying to determine what year the Customs (black beauties) became R7s and R4s. I THINK it was 1999?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by kink56

A bit confusing. Custom Shop as I mentioned has been around since at least 1982, as a section in the Nashville plant. The Custom, Art, and Historic DIVISION started in 1993, separte bulding in 1994. The Historic SERIES started in 1991, they made the Flying V reissues, and other NON LP reissues, and also in 1991 the LP Customs joined the Historic SERIES as did the split between 1960 and 1959 RI Flametops. Still NOT the TRUE Historic RIs we consider today, which began with the late 1993 with the R7s, and R9s. I am STILL trying to determine what year the Customs (black beauties) became R7s and R4s. I THINK it was 1999?

Kink, Sounds and seems right to my mind, even with a tad of CRS
I think though some R8's may have been made as early as 94

Yes I agree, about 50 R8s made in 1994 and finished by Murphy. They made the R8s mostly because the finish on them is cheaper than the finish on the Goldtops. I am sorry, I am not versed in IM, so what is CRS?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by kink56

Yes I agree, about 50 R8s made in 1994 and finished by Murphy. They made the R8s mostly because the finish on them is cheaper than the finish on the Goldtops. I am sorry, I am not versed in IM, so what is CRS?

CRS Cant Remember S_______, Fill in your favorite appropriate S word there Kink

Okay!!!

I really do not remember IF I remember!

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by kink56

I really do not remember IF I remember!

Sounds like a near terminal case of CRS

[lexluthier]

Where's the Les Paul KM? That was a flametop they made before the Heritage series, around '79 or so.

[Liam]

Where's the Les Paul KM? That was a flametop they made before the Heritage series, around '79 or so.

Thanks Lex, had not considered the KM...

From what I've read they shipped over a 1000 of them in 1979, but were they really an attempt at a historic reissue?

Liam

If think the Custom (black beauties) were not straigtened out until 1999 or 2000! That is: the 4 Yxxx and the 7 Yxxx format for the R4 and R7. I do not know shit about Customs, but this is the impression I am getting by what few 90s Customs I see on Ebay.

[hedzeppelin]

Talk is cheap.

Which is why the supply exceeds the demand.

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by hedzeppelin

Talk is cheap.

Which is why the supply exceeds the demand.

???? Why are you typing this phrase into multiple threads ?

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by Liam

Thanks Lex, had not considered the KM...

From what I've read they shipped over a 1000 of them in 1979, but were they really an attempt at a historic reissue?

Liam

From all the Gibson LP History I've read KM's were late 78/79 Era and yes Gibsons first attempt at a 59 Re Issue but they really fell short of the mark . More like the first Standard with a plus top

[lexluthier]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

From all the Gibson LP History I've read KM's were late 78/79 Era and yes Gibsons first attempt at a 59 Re Issue but they really fell short of the mark . More like the first Standard with a plus top

Yes, the KM's were not even close as far as accuracy, but neither were the Heritage series either. Basically all the 'reissues' up to the actual Historics in 94 were nothing but Standards with fancy tops.

Originally Posted by lexluthier

Yes, the KM's were not even close as far as accuracy, but neither were the Heritage series either. Basically all the 'reissues' up to the actual Historics in 94 were nothing but Standards with fancy tops.

Well, not exactly! They went to a smaller headstock, PAF RI pups, (Shaws, Bill Larerence then 57 Classics) thin binding in the cutaway, ABR-1, bell shaped knobs. By 1991, correctly shaped inlays (Historics did not retain this feature, unfortunately) The Standard CMT was merely a Standard with fancy tops.
I would agree many preIssues were as you descibe, but the preHisorics were a cut above.

[plecoman]

I am not 100% on this, but I have seen 59 reissues, not heritage80s that was form either 1980, or 1981. Its one of the ones one of the BIG music shops in America ordered in from Gibson, that was made to the exact 59 spec... So i think its earlier than 83 when 59 was reissued. I am pretty sure it is.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by plecoman

I am not 100% on this, but I have seen 59 reissues, not heritage80s that was form either 1980, or 1981. Its one of the ones one of the BIG music shops in America ordered in from Gibson, that was made to the exact 59 spec... So i think its earlier than 83 when 59 was reissued. I am pretty sure it is.

Ok There were several of those, Guitat Trader in NJ and Leo's Music in the Bay area / Frisco CA. With some over runs being sold to Sam Ash, one of my friends has one bought new in 83. Thing has a killer flame top, Inked numbers Shaw Pickups Smaller Headstock
Guitar Trader Les Pauls were double serialed and the first 12 that left the factory had orginal PAF pickups in them These were the last batch of Les Pauls to be made and leave Kalamazoo

[FLICKOFLASH]

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/hist...hronicles.html

[Liam]

I know, I saw, I loved it - what I had been trying to do but better. Can you make the data chronicles thread "sticky"? I think it's a really useful bit of documentation.

Thanks

Liam

[stringdancing]

Hey there Do you have any info on: Custom shop,all mahogany(body and sides)1957reissue,faded cherry,Standard? Mine was made in 2003.Or any info on how many were made? Thanks, --- contact me at " stringdancing1102@yahoo.com" or here on the forums at "stringdancing" --- Billy g.

[dwagar]

I thought I'd bump this up to the top

[Robster]

LIAM - Excellent thread - very cool idea. Of course there are going to be corrections & misinfo, just keep on keepin on and this could become a really good source of info!

R

[paf3150]

I have a great "Coffee Table" book called, ELECTRIC GUITARS THE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA. It was written by Tony Bacon,
published by Backbeat Books. Has a large section on Gibsons. Including about models and historics and the years they were made. Allot of info about features and appointments to the guitars.
My problem is I can not find any info about my Les Paul. 7 digit serial number, and other strange things about the guitar. It might be a "one-off" special order, but I thought someone on this site might be able to help me. I can specify more if anyone can help. Thanks Phil

[Goran]

Liam, great thread!

I don't know if this will add some confusion, but here the model name changes:

the R8 was called:

when introduced in 1994(?) 58 LP Flametop
from 2001-2003 58 LP Reissue
from 2003-2006 58 LP STD
since 2006 1958 LP STD VOS

in 2003 there was a Brazilian rosewood run
and from 2006-2007 a VOS chambered "edition"

the R9 was called:
from 1991-2000 LP Reissue Flametop
from 2000-2005 1959 LP Reissue
since 2006 59 LP STD + part of Gibson VOS series

in 1994 there was a R9 "Murphy aged" run
in 2000 also a R9 "Murphy aged" run and highly flamed(!)
in 2003 there were officially 3 different Brazilian rosewood R9 models:
- figured top
- Murphy aged
- plain top

the R0 was called
from 1991-2006 LP Reissue Flametop
since 2006 60 LP STD VOS

in 2003 there were officially 2 different Brazilian rosewood R0 models
- figured top
- Murphy aged


Correct me if I'm wrong: since their introduction (from 1991-), all Historic/Reissue/VOS/R2/R4/R6/R7/R8/R9/R0/G0/B7(BB)/Historic '68 models have long tennon necks?