Please Help. Desperation is beginning to set in...

[aficionado4321]

Greetings to the Forum!!!

This is my first post here since being a lurker for some time now. I need your help please on acquiring a guitar for my son. He is 13 years old now and has been playing for several years. He has shown NO sign of letting up and practices every chance he gets.

His beginner guitar has a '60s slim taper D-shaped neck according to the specs. It is an Epiphone Les Paul. I have been taking him around to try out Les Pauls and he really wants a Custom Shop model. He tells me they are so much better than the USA models he's tried. I am inclined to get it for him, HOWEVER, I need to find a model with the '60s SLIM TAPER neck.

His hand cramps when playing bar chords on even the '60s VOS models with the thinner necks (version 2). I actually bought one for him (a '60s VOS R0 with what I think was a version 2 neck - not as thick as a '59...not as thin as a '60 version 3) and had to return it because his hand cramped up and forget about early version 1 '60s necks or earlier years. He just can't play them at all.

Here's what my research has taught me so far...that the only models available through the Custom Shop that have '60s SLIM taper necks (i.e. version 3 necks) are:

1. Jimmy Page #2
2. Eric Clapton "Beano"
3. 50th Anniversary '60s Les Paul VERSION 3
4. Marc Bolan
5. 50th Anniversary Gibson Custom

Are there any others that I've missed? Is the 1974 Custom (the all black on with the gold hardware) a '60s slim taper? Is the Axxess - though the description says rounded neck?

Is the new Rosewood Maduro? Gibson's website says the neck profile is "Les Paul Custom". Since their VOS model comes with '57 Humbuckers, I take it the neck profile is '57 and therefore too thick.

I really want to buy NEW from an authorized dealer. I have had a HECK of a time finding one for him. Please help.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

A

[kdm]

Originally Posted by aficionado4321

His hand cramps when playing bar chords

a good guitar teacher can solve this easily...

[cherrick]

If his hand does not cramp on the Epi then wait a few years for a new guitar until his hands grow. In the meantime you can invest in upgrades for the Epi (Dr Vintage wiring harness, Zhangbucker pickups, etc)

[jd0272]

Admirable that your son is so dedicated at that age. Lot of dough though, I'd try him with a LP Classic with a slim '60's profile first.

A good tutor should be able to guide him in the technique he needs to adopt re; cramps, but he is still growing bear in mind. It may turn out that Gibson's do not suit him at all. I hate Ibanez/Jackson pointy things etc because I simply can not get away with the thin profiles, millions of others love them.

If he maintains his interest in the guitar in the next few years, bearing in mind girls will become a priority at some point soon, then get him a Custom Shop for his 16th.

There again, it's your money so who am I to tell ya!!!

Best of luck chap.

[joedonner2001]

Originally Posted by jd0272

I'd try him with a LP Classic with a slim '60's profile first...then get him a Custom Shop for his 16th.

Agreed.

[strat1701]

You'd consider buying a 13yr old a used 6-9K guitar? All those models you suggested aren't in production, and are high end so you'd have to find one used from someone willing to part with it. They are exceptional guitars, but personally I think a bit too much for someone that age, no matter their discerned affinity towards the instrument. Too early to tell if they'll bite forever, its a huge investment. BUT, try these:

These are '60's slim taper'

Gibson.com: Gibson Les Paul Studio Classic '60s

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Elec...60s/Specs.aspx

My first 'real' gibson was a Studio from 1991, I wish I still had it. They are not bad guitars at all. Then if he still is into it, then get him a real nice high end CS shop guitar as a graduation present.

[Guitarhack]

I agree with the posts above. Have a teacher work with him to see if there is something that can be changed in the way he's playing to aleviate the cramping.

Sounds like money is not an object because of the guitar you already bought and the ones you're looking at. I believe the JPP models (#1 or #2) have the thinest neck profile but lord they are expensive and as stated you will have to find one and negotiate a sale. They also have coil splitting which is another cool feature. You could get a Custom Shop R0 or G0 or a 50th anniversiary R0 version III (all should have the slim tapper neck). Just stay away from the 50th anniversary Versions 1 or 2.

You could also look at other guitar makers - Suhr makes guitars with a pretty slim neck as does Ibanez.

http://www.suhrguitars.com/
http://www.ibanez.com/

[JimmyAce2006]

I don't think that "60s slim taper" really applies to custom shop guitars; to me, that is a Gibson USA term. Now there are "60s" necks and "59" necks, etc. But I get the point; you want a thin neck on a custom shop guitar. BTW, the Page #2 is not a 60s neck. It is a 1959 neck that has been shaved down on the back. It still has big shoulders (sides). Many "60s" necks also have reduced shoulders, especially 2009+ models. I think it was hit or miss on models made prior to 2009. The Pearly Gates LP has a nice neck; not as fat on the back as most 59s and has more reduced shoulders than a normal 2009+ 59. But by far he slimmest neck (including the shoulders) that you will find on a LP is a Jimmy Page #1, made between 2004-2006.

[jhun1976]

Can you please adopt me?

[Eddie]

I realize that you want to buy new, but a 1990-1993 Classic would probably be the ticket. I have a '91 and the quality is superb.

[pinefd]

Welcome to the forum, A! I applaud you for all the research you've done so far. You sound like a good dad (or mom...I couldn't tell). I agree with most of what's already been posted. If he (and you) has his mind set on a Custom Shop model, I'd check out the G0s, as Guitarhack suggested. These are exclusive to Guitar Center...if they're still even sold. They have smaller neck profiles, but are very high quality, and are one of the best values out there.

Good luck!


Frank

[Nick-Ogden]

He's 13 so he will outgrow the guitar, get him a studio or a classic with a 60's slim neck.

Then when he's older and grown he can change to a bigger neck if he likes (which he will because they are the best!) and also he get's a trade up in guitar quality.

[SKATTERBRANE]

Used really opens up the doors.

[ykcor1138]

In my opinion the Jimmy Page is the ticket. I have been lucky enough to play a few and they have a very thin neck. Also you can achieve single coil type sounds on them as well.

My dad bought me a nice guitar when I was 13 and I still play today... I am 37 now. If cash is no issue then go for it!!! Just don't make the same mistake lots of parents make and keep buying guitar after guitar only to find out they take a disinterest.

If he really truly loves it. The custom Shop makes awesome stuff... I own 3. Think of it this way. If he really gets into it he will have the best production Les Paul made and will not be buying 4 different grades of Epiphone, 3 different types of Gibson's just to end up buying a Custom Shop.

[Big John]

Another option is to have a neck re-shaped. Any luthier worth his salt can take a standard Gibson neck and slim it down on the back as well as at the nut/sides. I've seen my luthier buddy bring a standard neck down to a 1-9/16" nut width with an anorexic back profile for a client who's hands were very small. Something to consider.

[Riffs]

Besides the 50th anniversary version 3 R0, there is also the G0, which is like an R0 but with a plaintop. That should also have a 60's slim-taper neck profile. Also, as far as I know, current R0's being produced (not 50th anniversary) should be the same as the 50th anniversary version 3 model, with a slim-taper neck. If you have a guitar center near you with a "platinum room" (where they keep their high end guitars) you might be able to find an R0 or G0 there for your son to try. Otherwise, you can always ask the platinum room manager to ship any R0 from another guitar center that you see on their website to their store for you to try out. This was very helpful when I was shopping for my R9. Hope you find your son what he's looking for!

[scooter]

Buying your 13 year old a 5-6K guitar to learn on. Seriously. Big John is about the only one making much sense here.

[silverkw]

My hands cramps when the guitar neck is too thin.

Make sure that's not the real problem first.

[SoWhat?]

Gibson Les Paul reissue 2008 custom shop VOS | eBay

Probably could get this for $2600.

[joedonner2001]

If money isn't a problem, then why not? He might end up still owning the guitar 50 or 60 years from now and regard it as his most treasured possession. Or he might not appreciate it because it came too easily.

The middle way might be one like - if you achieve this or that (realistic) goal at school or whatever, then by the end of such and such a time we'll get you such and such a guitar.

It's a hard one to give someone advice on.

[silverkw]

Better yet, take your son to a guitar center, try a bunch of Les Paul's and see which one does not cause hand problem for him.

[zaz]

Most of the recent R0 / G0 necks (in my experience) are what you would describe as a version 3 neck. I wouldn't go with a signature model for an everyday player because of cost and selection. A used G0 (as shown in the link from SoWhat?) is the best bang for your buck. If you want to go new on an R0, contact Brett at Eddies Guitars and he will hook you up with a good price.

Good luck with the search.

[JimmyAce2006]

here you go

2006*Gibson Custom Shop*Les Paul G0/ R0 : Vintage Rare Collectible Guitar Sales from the Grinning Elk Music Company



......

[Electric Funeral]

Make the kid buy his own freakin guitar - or he'll never truly appreciate what he has.

At 13 years old unless he's already playing like a God an Epi is all the guitar he needs and more.

[brettk7]

I have done custom builds on lesser expensive models for customers and had that neck profile before. I have a general idea of what it would cost to do it. I REALLY love doing custom builds as they always have turned out really, really awesome (if you see a guy on here talking about a 57' LP Custom that we did a build on... Just ask him ).

Shoot me an e-mail, I'd love to help!
brett@eddiesguitars.com

[Jeffguy]

I agree with Brettk7. If you're determined to shell out the dough for a LP ($5k+ Lucky boy!) but have a hard time with neck thickness then just get one customized/custom built.

Get one that fits his hands(and yours if possible lol) and make him work to pay for half. Let him pick the finish, top (flame/quilt/plain), hardware, pups, wiring, pots/caps, fretboard, inlays, everything!! Someone that has the ability to receive such a beautiful guitar at a young age should put in the work to decide what he really wants and why. Once he has got it all down get him to tell you. If he puts in that much work/effort/cash he'll keep it forever, even if he stops playing.

But hey I'm sure he will be happy with whatever you decide! Enjoy the ride!

[brettk7]

Originally Posted by Jeffguy

I agree with Brettk7. If you're determined to shell out the dough for a LP ($5k+ Lucky boy!) but have a hard time with neck thickness then just get one customized/custom built.

Get one that fits his hands(and yours if possible lol) and make him work to pay for half. Let him pick the finish, top (flame/quilt/plain), hardware, pups, wiring, pots/caps, fretboard, inlays, everything!! Someone that has the ability to receive such a beautiful guitar at a young age should put in the work to decide what he really wants and why. Once he has got it all down get him to tell you. If he puts in that much work/effort/cash he'll keep it forever, even if he stops playing.

But hey I'm sure he will be happy with whatever you decide! Enjoy the ride!

Well, I can't publicly discuss pricing on things, but I have a few ideas in mind that would be much, much less than his projected idea. Granted, we all know what a flame-top R0 goes for normally. Maybe a plain-top special ordered with a Version.3 neck would be the ticket. There is a decent upcharge to have them change things though, but it isn't ludicrous. The 57' Custom w/ Beano profile that I did with Micheal Omiya allllll the way from California turned out FANTASTIC... Arguably one of the best Customs I have ever played.

There is also tons and tons of awesome guitars that could very well already have a neck he would like. If he called and spoke with me over the phone I could maybe find him something that is already in house too. Cool thing about Gibson profiles is there is certainly one for everybody and with the guitars varying between each individual piece... Sometimes you just have to look for it! I would be very surprised if he "had" to go with that particular profile. But, if that is the golden ticket, then so be it!

[brettk7]

Originally Posted by Electric Funeral

Make the kid buy his own freakin guitar - or he'll never truly appreciate what he has.

At 13 years old unless he's already playing like a God an Epi is all the guitar he needs and more.

I think his Dad knows him just a little bit better than you do . It makes me frustrated to see people posting negative things like this all the time on MLP. It's like coming to a forum where everybody sounds like a drunken step-parent that can't stand the idea of their significant other doing something special for his step-child. I would bet any young guitar player that works hard at it at such a young age is SURELY going to appreciate a Gibson Les Paul that was given to them as a gift from their parents. To me, that would be classified as something really special and would be enjoyed for the rest of my life.

I still have my Epiphone LP Special that my Mom got me for my first guitar. I have a lot of other gear and have sold a lot of gear too.. But, that will always stay around because I appreciate what she did and why she did it for me.

[aficionado4321]

To all who responded, you have my deepest gratitude. I want you all to know that I am the lucky one for having such a great son. I don’t what I did in my life to deserve such a wonderful child. I’m his dad, btw, and we are not rich or well to do by any stretch of the imagination. We struggle from day to day and paying for the guitar will require a LOT of belt tightening and sacrifice. It’s just that I’ve supported our children in at least ONE of their dreams and now it’s his turn. He truly deserves this fine guitar because of his unwavering commitment to the instrument and the music and please believe me when I tell you that his level of play is definitely commensurate with a CS guitar. He tells me things like “dad, the CS guitar is slightly more challenging to play than a USA model, but more rewarding in its action and precision” and it’s gotten to the point where I can’t tell who’s playing anymore when I’m not in the room, him or the artist on the CD.

I know nothing about guitars. I played the piano growing up, and not too well to boot. I know what it is to love something and I see that love in his eyes for the guitar. He is not spoiled and by no means does he act it. I told him plain and simple that we’re only getting him this guitar because of the QUALITY aspect. No grade AAAAA figured maple tops or special signature models or fancy bursts, hence my asking all these questions. It HAS to be an entry–level guitar CS, and I use term “entry-level” to describe my financial situation and NOT the guitar’s qualities. And that’s why we have to find an already-built guitar so that the seller can maybe work with me on bringing the price down a bit. I WISH I could custom order one for him: Problem solved and I wouldn’t be wasting space on the forum and because his guitar hero/idol/inspiration plays Les Pauls, I know that he wouldn’t be happy with anything else, even though he would NEVER, EVER complain about anything I’d give him. You see, that’s the kind of person he is.

I surprised him with the R0 and it was heaven for him (and the rest of the family) for about a day…until the cramping started. It BROKE MY HEART to have had to return that guitar. I got an amazing deal for it and it was a painted model (i.e. you couldn’t see the wood). LUCKILY, I bought from an authorized dealer with a return policy.

I would LOVE to buy used but I am truly hesitant because of what has happened. To the kind responders who mentioned that an R0 neck is the same/similar to a ver. 3 or ‘60s slim taper neck, I would have to respectfully disagree. The guitar we bought was a ‘60s VOS and the neck is definitely thicker. I do NOT know about the G0 guitars as we have not been able to find one for him to play. That’s also why I asked about the Ebony Custom Shop CUSTOM models. I wonder if those have slim necks as well.

I will definitely look (and have him and his old teacher) re-evaluate his technique and see if that has ANY bearing on the cramping/pain/discomfort, but he plays FAST; as fast as he has to actually play the entire song note for note as on the CD, as well as riffs/chords that he works on by himself. He wants to be a professional musician and I haven't a clue as to how to guide him toward that. We stress education in our home and I will make sure he gets it, but as far as the music goes, I don't know where to begin as to whom I should talk to, or get him started.

After re-reading my post above, it kind of sounds like I know what I’m talking about. Let me tell you that that could not be further from the truth. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Everything I’m saying is cobbled together from looking at guitars, talking to salespeople and reading this fine forum. I’m just as lost now as I was when we started this whole thing and any direction you could give us is greatly appreciated.

Most respectfully,

A

[brettk7]

A,

The Version-3 neck is the 'true' 60s neck that is commonly found on R0 and G0 guitars. However, like I said in my post not all of them are exactly the same... It isn't like each guitar that is made is going to be the exact same as the last. We're talking about hand-made guitars here, and the profiles ARE different per guitar. Example, you might play three R0s with Version-3 necks... And each of them are going to be a little different. Sometimes drastically different.

I really do urge you to give me a shout, I could find what he needs and would really take great pleasure in helping your little guy out. I do it all day!