Please Help. Desperation is beginning to set in...

[six-string]

Originally Posted by pinefd

Welcome to the forum, A! I applaud you for all the research you've done so far. You sound like a good dad (or mom...I couldn't tell). I agree with most of what's already been posted. If he (and you) has his mind set on a Custom Shop model, I'd check out the G0s, as Guitarhack suggested. These are exclusive to Guitar Center...if they're still even sold. They have smaller neck profiles, but are very high quality, and are one of the best values out there.

Good luck!


Frank

just an FYI- there was a member on The Gear Page who had 3 different G0 s up for sale yesterday at what seemed very reasonable prices. (and no, its not me and i have no affiliation with the person)

[joedonner2001]

I'd take the kid to a guitar shop. Make a trip out of it. Try many different guitars and see which feels best. I spent years playing SGs and then one day I tried a Les Paul with a thick 50's neck and that was like an epiphany.

There are other activities that can make your hands cramp at the age of 13, too... Personally, I can see how a too thin neck can make your hands cramp, but not why a thick neck would do that. So might be worthwhile checking out the R7's or R8's.

Good luck, man. Sounds like a good kid. I hope one day my kids will want to jam with me when they're a bit older. At the moment they're just basically destroying everything below adult shoulder level in this house.

[silverkw]

Originally Posted by joedonner2001

Personally, I can see how a too thin neck can make your hands cramp, but not why a thick neck would do that.

That's how I feel as well... my left hand gets really tired after play a bit on Ibanez's thin neck, but does not get tired at all after an hour on a fat neck R7.

[pmonk]

IMO - you kid needs a good mex Tele!

[kjwolfer]

Good on you and pay no mind to the elitists that think you shouldn't buy that guitar for your son. The kid knows what he wants and should have it.

Have you considered looking at a 70-85ish les paul? I have both an R8 and a 1972 LP and the necks are far from each other. The 72 is quite thin and the R8 is a baseball bat. Plus these years of LP's are quite a bit cheaper in some cases compared to the new customs. Plus you get all the vintage mojo included. If a 74 was good enough for Randy Rhoads and Ace Frehley..............

[ozzmcom]

damn he's 13 and you're thinking of a CS Les paul. Do you have another place for adopting me xD

[kdm]

Originally Posted by ozzmcom

damn he's 13 and you're thinking of a CS Les paul.

that's OK, I was 14 when I got my first Gibson guitar....there was no custom shop those days.....

[ykcor1138]

A little tip.

Since you do not know a lot about guitar. A setup can make a hugh difference.

Neck size may not necessarily be the issue he was having. All guitars even the best guitars require maintenance. If you bought it at Guitar Center sometimes they try and set them up and sometimes they do a really bad job!

Wood expands and contracts and if the neck is off the strings may feel tight which can cause cramping. Keep this in mind before making a return.

FYI you might of found a great guitar for a good price and returned it. Lots of people sell there guitars because they do not know what to look for in a good setup. Mine personal Burst Sounded AWESOME and I knew I had to have her but she had a lousy setup. So I took her to my local guy and WOW she now plays like butter!!

Good luck and shop well!!

Originally Posted by aficionado4321

To all who responded, you have my deepest gratitude. I want you all to know that I am the lucky one for having such a great son. I don’t what I did in my life to deserve such a wonderful child. I’m his dad, btw, and we are not rich or well to do by any stretch of the imagination. We struggle from day to day and paying for the guitar will require a LOT of belt tightening and sacrifice. It’s just that I’ve supported our children in at least ONE of their dreams and now it’s his turn. He truly deserves this fine guitar because of his unwavering commitment to the instrument and the music and please believe me when I tell you that his level of play is definitely commensurate with a CS guitar. He tells me things like “dad, the CS guitar is slightly more challenging to play than a USA model, but more rewarding in its action and precision” and it’s gotten to the point where I can’t tell who’s playing anymore when I’m not in the room, him or the artist on the CD.

I know nothing about guitars. I played the piano growing up, and not too well to boot. I know what it is to love something and I see that love in his eyes for the guitar. He is not spoiled and by no means does he act it. I told him plain and simple that we’re only getting him this guitar because of the QUALITY aspect. No grade AAAAA figured maple tops or special signature models or fancy bursts, hence my asking all these questions. It HAS to be an entry–level guitar CS, and I use term “entry-level” to describe my financial situation and NOT the guitar’s qualities. And that’s why we have to find an already-built guitar so that the seller can maybe work with me on bringing the price down a bit. I WISH I could custom order one for him: Problem solved and I wouldn’t be wasting space on the forum and because his guitar hero/idol/inspiration plays Les Pauls, I know that he wouldn’t be happy with anything else, even though he would NEVER, EVER complain about anything I’d give him. You see, that’s the kind of person he is.

I surprised him with the R0 and it was heaven for him (and the rest of the family) for about a day…until the cramping started. It BROKE MY HEART to have had to return that guitar. I got an amazing deal for it and it was a painted model (i.e. you couldn’t see the wood). LUCKILY, I bought from an authorized dealer with a return policy.

I would LOVE to buy used but I am truly hesitant because of what has happened. To the kind responders who mentioned that an R0 neck is the same/similar to a ver. 3 or ‘60s slim taper neck, I would have to respectfully disagree. The guitar we bought was a ‘60s VOS and the neck is definitely thicker. I do NOT know about the G0 guitars as we have not been able to find one for him to play. That’s also why I asked about the Ebony Custom Shop CUSTOM models. I wonder if those have slim necks as well.

I will definitely look (and have him and his old teacher) re-evaluate his technique and see if that has ANY bearing on the cramping/pain/discomfort, but he plays FAST; as fast as he has to actually play the entire song note for note as on the CD, as well as riffs/chords that he works on by himself. He wants to be a professional musician and I haven't a clue as to how to guide him toward that. We stress education in our home and I will make sure he gets it, but as far as the music goes, I don't know where to begin as to whom I should talk to, or get him started.

After re-reading my post above, it kind of sounds like I know what I’m talking about. Let me tell you that that could not be further from the truth. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Everything I’m saying is cobbled together from looking at guitars, talking to salespeople and reading this fine forum. I’m just as lost now as I was when we started this whole thing and any direction you could give us is greatly appreciated.

Most respectfully,

A

[Guitarhack]

Originally Posted by brettk7

A,

The Version-3 neck is the 'true' 60s neck that is commonly found on R0 and G0 guitars. However, like I said in my post not all of them are exactly the same... It isn't like each guitar that is made is going to be the exact same as the last. We're talking about hand-made guitars here, and the profiles ARE different per guitar. Example, you might play three R0s with Version-3 necks... And each of them are going to be a little different. Sometimes drastically different.

I really do urge you to give me a shout, I could find what he needs and would really take great pleasure in helping your little guy out. I do it all day!

You really should contact brett. If nothing else he can answer all your questions and get you started in the right direction. He has a long standing and stellar reputation on this forum.

[Lesterious Ways]

Originally Posted by silverkw

My hands cramps when the guitar neck is too thin.

Make sure that's not the real problem first.

+1

ime slim necks are great for leads but fat necks are more comfortable for chordwork

[CRobbins]

[Electric Funeral]

Originally Posted by brettk7

I think his Dad knows him just a little bit better than you do . It makes me frustrated to see people posting negative things like this all the time on MLP. It's like coming to a forum where everybody sounds like a drunken step-parent that can't stand the idea of their significant other doing something special for his step-child. I would bet any young guitar player that works hard at it at such a young age is SURELY going to appreciate a Gibson Les Paul that was given to them as a gift from their parents. To me, that would be classified as something really special and would be enjoyed for the rest of my life.

I still have my Epiphone LP Special that my Mom got me for my first guitar. I have a lot of other gear and have sold a lot of gear too.. But, that will always stay around because I appreciate what she did and why she did it for me.

I said what I said because I see so many kids whose deep-pocketed parents get them guitars that are way beyond what they need or what they can comprehend. Most kids in that age group wouldn't be able to tell you the differences between an Epi LP standard and a Gibson LP standard. Unless, they can tear themselves away from Call of Duty long enough to digest large amount of info from resources like this forum. And most can't/don't.

I also think with the amount of online resources (like this forum) Both parents and kids think they need way more of a guitar than they do. The tendency to blame the guitar for hardships in practicing is not new, but has seemed to increase exponentially.

Did my hand cramp up when I was 10 years old learning barre chords? Absolutely. Did I need an R9 to fix it? Nope, I just PRACTICED. Other members mentioned earlier in the thread that a good teacher that will help explain and reinforce proper technique and posture is a good solution for this. No matter what guitar, the kid's hand is going to cramp up until his hand is in better playing shape. Barre chords were just as hard for me at that age whether I was playing my Squier strat or my dad's '78 LP.

[bugman]

Seems to me the worst thing he could do is buy a guitar from an online dealer. If its not right then he has to pay shipping both ways. If the dealer wants to help have him pay shipping both ways if its not right. Work with the guitar teacher and keep trying guitars in person even if you have to travel around a bit till you find the right one. Im not against online dealers at all. Just in this case it does not seem to me to be the way to go.

[MrGansburg]

Originally Posted by Guitarhack

You really should contact brett. If nothing else he can answer all your questions and get you started in the right direction. He has a long standing and stellar reputation on this forum.

I’d have to agree. I don’t know Brett nor have I had any dealings with him, it’s just that if somebody who sells guitars for a living is offering some personalised advice I’d jump on it. We don’t get a lot of that sort of service in the UK! The advice will be free and if he’s got nothing that suits your boy then so be it, but if he has then everyone’s a winner…

[guitarbob123]

I'm 16 and got my Les Paul Custom 68RI from Brett and it's one of the best guitars I've played, no exaggeration!

It fits me perfectly and sounds great and I got it at a great price too, which is important.

I would full advice going with Brett, or at least give him a go. I'm based a good few thousand miles away, over an ocean and still got exactly what I was looking for. He's very easy to work with and will do his utmost best to make you happy.

[babatube]

"We struggle from day to day and paying for the guitar will require a LOT of belt tightening and sacrifice"

well if you don't have the money don't buy a 6K guitar.
that's just plain crazy.
why stress yourself financially if the kid might stop playing in one year?

what if he keeps on playing and then in two years his hands will grow?
what if the 6K guitar you bought him will not feel right in his hands after 2 years?

when i wanted a 3K bass when i was young my dad just told me,
no way

don't spoil the kid too much.
we have enough spoiled lazy kids these days.

[Malikon]

His hand could be cramping because he's used to a thick D shaped neck and the Gibsons have a C shaped neck.

It could also be cramping due to poor technique and squeezing the neck too hard.

Either way unless you're crazy rich, buying a $6,000-$9,000 guitar for a kid is insanity.

Fine he's dedicated, fine he practices all the time, ...still doesn't mean he needs a $6,000. guitar.

This, “dad, the CS guitar is slightly more challenging to play than a USA model, but more rewarding in its action and precision” Sounds like a line I'd have given my folks too at that age. Especially if I thought it would get me a $6,000. guitar.

Les Pauls feel like Les Pauls (for the most part.) Action and setup is all completely adjustable.

Check out used Gibson studios, or used Traditionals (if you must have a Gibson.) They're nice guitars.

You said he already has a 60's VOS? Then he already has a very nice Gibson.

He needs to work on his technique and the application of his precision if his hand is cramping that much.

Chances are good the Epi neck is bigger then the 60's neck on the Gibson, plus the whole 'D' shape versus 'C' shape thing. I'm very much used to an Epiphone neck and the slight flat spot in the middle of the back of the neck. So whenever I play a Gibson it just feels wrong,...and my hand cramps a little as it tries to adjust.

So far it's why I've stuck with Epiphones,...though I still have hope of finding a Gibson with the perfect neck.

anyway,...my .02 cents. (I've been playing 25 years btw.)

[Electric Funeral]

^ Absolutely agree with babatube and Malikon.

Seems like most people arguing for the OP to buy a CS Gibson are either trying to sell him a guitar or justify the fact that they themselves have one. I think truthfully, most people don't need a $6000 LP, and don't sound or play any better on one than on a $500 Melody Maker.