Nitro on Historics and Reissues

[reedy]

A question for those that might know...

Is the nitro finished used on the Historics/Reissues the same water-based nitro with plasticizers used on the regular production models or does the custom shop use the more solvent-based nitro that was used on vintage guitars?

Thanks.

[Cpt_Gonzo]

If it's still sticky, it's the same crap they've been using on the standard production models, and that's no real nitro.

Real nitro isn't as sticky.

[jonas335]

My two R8s are the least sticky Gibsons I've played in years...but still a little bit...

[nimrod777]

Is there a way to avoid the stickiness behind the neck? Ive tried quite a few LPs and they vary from really sticky to tolerable but after a few minutes gunk still build up. Is there a non-invasive remedy to this?

[1981 LPC]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Gonzo

If it's still sticky, it's the same crap they've been using on the standard production models, and that's no real nitro.

Real nitro isn't as sticky.

'Real nitro'? As opposed to fake nitro? All nitro finishes used in mass produced guitars have plasticizers in them, some have more and some have less. There's nothing real or fake about it.

[guitarnut_germany]

have a look at that:

gibson

click on the 10th picture on the right, you see a gibson stripped from its "nitro", uuuuh, nitro, right? that pile of plastic shit there?

WHY on earth do they put this shit on the guitars?! I'd rather get an *unfinished* guitar than one packed with plastic. We don't really have an option, do we?

I remember my first guitar teacher (maybe 20 years ago), good guitars were scarce back then, and he had a funny EVH type of axe, with floyd, basically a handmade one, which was not finished at all, it looked like shit... but maaan, that was TONEMONSTER, it had quality woods and hardware... and it was a **lefty** (big problem for my teacher back then )

[RAG7890]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Gonzo

If it's still sticky, it's the same crap they've been using on the standard production models, and that's no real nitro.

Real nitro isn't as sticky.

Interesting point CG. My new '58 Replica's Nitro is as hard as glass (bugger all plasticizer) & not a hint of stickiness anywhere.

[slapshot]

rub it with 0000 steel wool then polish it with some good old school car polish

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Gonzo

If it's still sticky, it's the same crap they've been using on the standard production models, and that's no real nitro.

Real nitro isn't as sticky.

I think they have been changing it over the years, my two new 2011 R5's have baby butt smoth lacquer, not a hint of stickiness whatsoever.

[nicolasrivera]

Originally Posted by guitarnut_germany

have a look at that:

gibson

click on the 10th picture on the right, you see a gibson stripped from its "nitro", uuuuh, nitro, right? that pile of plastic shit there?

WHY on earth do they put this shit on the guitars?! I'd rather get an *unfinished* guitar than one packed with plastic. We don't really have an option, do we?

I remember my first guitar teacher (maybe 20 years ago), good guitars were scarce back then, and he had a funny EVH type of axe, with floyd, basically a handmade one, which was not finished at all, it looked like shit... but maaan, that was TONEMONSTER, it had quality woods and hardware... and it was a **lefty** (big problem for my teacher back then )

I have a lot of tone monsters, some finished in poly, some in nitro and some unfinished. Really, the finish material will only affect the tone in relation to how thick it is applied, a thin coat won't do much for the tone.

Just don't buy guitars with thick poly finishes.

I'm sure that if you stripe a Gibson from its finsh you won't be able to tell the difference tone wise.

[db3266]

I keep wiping my R8 neck down with a scotch pad, I do it very gently to just remove the grime that accumulates on the sticky neck. I'm hoping that through time (the next few months and hopefully a warm summer in the UK), it wll eventually stop being sticky and stop accumulating a suprising amount of dirt!

[mfolet]

VOS models have 100% nitro with no added plasticizers just like origanal bursts

[guitarnut_germany]

Originally Posted by mfolet

VOS models have 100% nitro with no added plasticizers just like origanal bursts

as far as I know, officially all gibsons have 100% nitro, if that really is so, and what is meant by "100% nitro" is another issue

[mfolet]

In this case 100% nitro means no plasticizers or additives

[guitarnut_germany]

Originally Posted by mfolet

In this case 100% nitro means no plasticizers or additives

I wonder WHY i s then Dave Johnson (and many others) refinishing historic guitars... (and how does the "nitro" look like, that comes off those historics...see pic in my post above)

just for fun?!

[winexprt]

Since it hasn't been addressed, what would be the point/benefit of adding "plasticizers" to the finish??

[guitarnut_germany]

Originally Posted by winexprt

Since it hasn't been addressed, what would be the point/benefit of adding "plasticizers" to the finish??

I would guess it's easier to apply... that's just a guess though. I think a nitro finish takes more time to apply and is a long iterative process...

There are many people who wouldn't be happy with a nitro finish as well (very sensitive, fades, cracks, chips and so on...) But man, on historics... I don't understand either.

[cousingrandpa]

My R8's neck after 2 years of hard play is no longer sticky, soft & doesn't build up gunk any more, it took a few months for this. I'm just starting with my R9 so I figure it will take a few months for it to catch up.

[KenG]

Originally Posted by guitarnut_germany

I wonder WHY i s then Dave Johnson (and many others) refinishing historic guitars... (and how does the "nitro" look like, that comes off those historics...see pic in my post above)

just for fun?!

People get makerovers because they want aged LPs and what they think is closer to the originals (whatever that means considering they were all over the place as well). Fading,checking all included. The people performing the work do it because they make a lot of money.
The stuff comes off in one piece because they heat it (which can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing) and really only indicates that the coats were well bonded to one another.
If you don't like Nitro buy something else. Personally I have three newer LPs and absolutely no issues.
A comment to those who always find the necks sticky,.. it's more than likely your own sweat that's doing this (no offense intended). I've met several players over the years who's sweat from their hands corrodes strings &/or leaves gunk behind that isn't easy to clean off.

These guitars are buffed with compound on a buffing wheel, anyone who's ever buffed a finish knows if it's not hard it'll peel/tear off or melt on the wheel.

[ctkarslake]

Anyone know if what the difference between the VOS finish nitro and GLOSS finish nitro is?
I've been under the impression that only the VOS finish has all the "gunk" issues.

[db3266]

Originally Posted by KenG

A comment to those who always find the necks sticky,.. it's more than likely your own sweat that's doing this (no offense intended). I've mat several players over the years who's sweat from their hands corrodes strings &/or leaves gunk behind that isn't easy to clean off.

I think I have to agree with this. I use Pure Nickel strings and they also go dirty very quickly.

[winexprt]

Originally Posted by guitarnut_germany

I would guess it's easier to apply... that's just a guess though. I think a nitro finish takes more time to apply and is a long iterative process...

There are many people who wouldn't be happy with a nitro finish as well (very sensitive, fades, cracks, chips and so on...) But man, on historics... I don't understand either.

I see. If you could speed up the application (and drying?) times you could pump more guitars out the door. That would make sense financially.

My 2011 Traditional Plus was a tiny bit sticky/tacky when I first got it, but that only lasted a couple of weeks. It's completely dry and not the least bit sticky now. I guess the fact that I had it outside of its case and on a stand for several months helped the drying process along.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by winexprt

Since it hasn't been addressed, what would be the point/benefit of adding "plasticizers" to the finish??

So they DON'T crack and check.

The percentage of the buying demographic that WANTS their guitars to do that is likely pretty minimal. There's just a much higher concentration of us here.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by mfolet

VOS models have 100% nitro with no added plasticizers just like origanal bursts

VOS and Gloss Gibsons from the Custom Shop have the same nitro sprayed on. VOS guitars just have some extra gunk (buffing compound) slathered on top of the finish.

Gibson's modern version of "nitro" just isn't the same nitro formula used in the glory days. That's why they don't check and crack.

[guitarnut_germany]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

So they DON'T crack and check.

The percentage of the buying demographic that WANTS their guitars to do that is likely pretty minimal. There's just a much higher concentration of us here.

If I buy a historic, I would very much like it to crack and check , I would guess, that ***quite a few*** people buying **historics** (many of us are vintage nuts anyway) would like that as well. That's why I would only guess a proccess speed up behind this plastic stuff on the historics.

The finish used back in the 50's was a COMPLETELY different one. ON how many of your historics has the burst faded??! Even if the guitar is 20 years old, it doesn't fade. That's a different finish, call it whatever you like, it's not historicaly correct.

[Barker]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

VOS and Gloss Gibsons from the Custom Shop have the same nitro sprayed on. VOS guitars just have some extra gunk (buffing compound) slathered on top of the finish.

Gibson's modern version of "nitro" just isn't the same nitro formula used in the glory days. That's why they don't check and crack.

I have no idea what is really in Gibson's nitro. I will say though that my 2011 R8's finish is rock hard, and it even has some fine check marks (finish cracks) on various parts of the body. I have done nothing to 'encourage' this, we have had some really large temperature, and humidty swings, and it did have a couple of cold nights in my car (oops), but that's it.

[guitarnut_germany]

Originally Posted by KenG

People get makerovers because they want aged LPs and what they think is closer to the originals (whatever that means considering they were all over the place as well). Fading,checking all included. The people performing the work do it because they make a lot of money.

Murphys are aged but not refinished, it's not ONLY the ageing. It has to do with the finish material as well.

[Barker]

Originally Posted by guitarnut_germany

The finish used back in the 50's was a COMPLETELY different one. ON how many of your historics has the burst faded??! Even if the guitar is 20 years old, it doesn't fade. That's a different finish, call it whatever you like, it's not historicaly correct.

Mine has faded, and it's less than a year old. I did give it a little sun time, but only around 30 hours. The nitro has ambered as well.... .

[mfolet]

They will indeed check and fade.My 2011 models have done so allready.

[mfolet]

They will indeed check and fade.My 2011 models have done so allready.