R9 - any bad years to stay away from?

[RCCola]

Hi,

I'm in the market for a R9 and would like to know if there are certain manufacture years to stay away from. I know Gibson has had periods where there QC has not been up to par. Maybe this doesn't apply to the custom shop.

Specifically, I've been eye-ing a 1990 R9.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

[dwagar]

I don't believe there is such a thing as a bad year for reissues, well, Gibson in general.

There is a thread on here that lists the changes by year though, you can browse through that.

[antei]

Originally Posted by dwagar

I don't believe there is such a thing as a bad year for reissues, well, Gibson in general.

There is a thread on here that lists the changes by year though, you can browse through that.

Agreed, there are not bad "years". Some are better than others, just play a bunch of them and pick your favorite!!! Not to make things more complicated but... Some are better than others to each individual as well. The best one for me might not be the best one for you. It's really a feel/sound thing, not black and white.

[Droog]

I didn't realise they made R9's in 1990. What year did the start making the "R" series?

[dwagar]

'83.
Head on over the the Les Paul Forum, on the front page you can check out Mike Slubowski's article on the first decade of reissues.

[RCCola]

Ah, sorry - does R9 only refer to those with the serial number that start with the 9 ?

I thought it was just short-hand for 1959 reissue.

[antei]

Originally Posted by RCCola

Ah, sorry - does R9 only refer to those with the serial number that start with the 9 ?

I thought it was just short-hand for 1959 reissue.

Yes it does only refer to those with serial number beginning with 9 and these are 1959 reissues. So you are correct on both counts.

[RCCola]

So, a 1959 reissue made in 1983 is not an R9?

Those do not start with 9.

[loaded six string]

Originally Posted by RCCola

So, a 1959 reissue made in 1983 is not an R9?

Those do not start with 9.

A 1959 re-issue made in '83 IS a R9. 1983 is just the year that guitar was made.

[Roman Rist]

R9 - any bad years to stay away from?

Anyone made after 1959

[RCCola]

A 1959 re-issue made in '83 IS a R9. 1983 is just the year that guitar was made.

Cool, thanks. Sorry if it seemed I was being difficult - I'm pretty newb when it comes to Lesters.

[loaded six string]

now why didnt anyone else think of that answer

[antei]

Originally Posted by RCCola

So, a 1959 reissue made in 1983 is not an R9?

Those do not start with 9.

Ah, I stand corrected. I thought that all 59 reissues s/n's started with a 9. Sorry to confuse you with bad information!

[markguitar]

Originally Posted by loaded six string

A 1959 re-issue made in '83 IS a R9. 1983 is just the year that guitar was made.

No it's not. The "R" series with the "R" designation stamped inside the control cavity did not start until the beginning of the "Historic Collection" in late 1993.

[mplecha]

Originally Posted by RFR

R9 - any bad years to stay away from?

Anyone made after 1959

They started reissuing a guitar when it was less than a year old?

The 1983-mid 93 Reissues are Flametop Reissues. There SN started with the year manufactured. 3=1983 or 1993, 7=1987, 8=1988 9=1999 0=1990 etc. They are NOT R9s. The R9s started in mid 1993. There is a HUGE difference between a 1993 Flametop reissue (preHistoric) and the later in the year 1993 R9 and that divied applies to before and after that point in mid 1993. As far as HISTORIC R9s from mid 1993-present, there are no bad years, some people prefer certain years for varying reasons, in general the newer the more accurate, with 1999 and 2003 being milestone years in that respect.

I have owned MANY 83-93 PreHistorics and they certainly have their charm too, and a few I have owned kicked ass all over the many Historics I have owned.

technically the first Les Paul Reissue was 1968

Originally Posted by loaded six string

A 1959 re-issue made in '83 IS a R9. 1983 is just the year that guitar was made.

Incorrect. It is a Flametop Reissue. Gibson did not call them 59 reissues then.

In 1991 the PreHistoric flametop reissues were split into 1960 reissues and 1959 reissues based on neck profile, but they were not R0s or R9s until late 1993 when the long tenon Historics emerged.

[sewood]

Originally Posted by RCCola

Hi,

I'm in the market for a R9 and would like to know if there are certain manufacture years to stay away from. I know Gibson has had periods where there QC has not been up to par. Maybe this doesn't apply to the custom shop.

Specifically, I've been eye-ing a 1990 R9.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

=========================================

If you like a 1990 R9 buy it. The Gibson Custom Shop didnt exist or start producimg RI until later 1993, 94 , 95. If you have to have a "period accurate" RI then look to the 1999-2008 RI but if you can play it doesnt matter as its all in the hands. The 93,94,95 guitars were notable for their wild flame tops but they look dipped in plastic as the clear coat was heavy. I suspect the wild tops used were western maple not the eastern maple. Look at the PRS and other models with wild flame tops, its western maple. For the most part, real 58 & 59's didnt have top like that as that wood was reserved for the archtops. Virtually all 59 flame tops in late 93 & 94 were painted by Tom Murphy. If you find one, ck the body cavity for his initials but the seller will probably know. Prices for this period run 6,500-8,000---very pricey. For that amount be patient and look for a 1999 Anniversary 59 RI. The first 35 were done by Murphy and will run in the 7-8k area but it will always be worth that amount of more. Really, anything in the 1999 59 RI anniversary family the way to go from a money/business standpoint as they are a "first run". The 2000-2008 59 Murphy aged RI are great and run 5,500-6,000 used. Again, be patient and get one for 5,500 and you will never lose a dime. One last thing, on the 1999-2008 Historic models, the mahogony body before routing cant weigh more that 4lbs. The prior years and VOS dont have graded and weighed bodys. You see these "chambered" fancy LP. Those are just heavy bodys with holes drilled in them with a nice top and paint job. Out of 1000 mahogony bodys, only 3-4 will weigh 4lbs or less. Your paying for that.

[thinkvisual]

Originally Posted by RFR

R9 - any bad years to stay away from?

Anyone made after 1959

[sewood]

If you like a 1990 R9 buy it. The Gibson Custom Shop didnt exist or start producimg RI until later 1993, 94 , 95. If you have to have a "period accurate" RI then look to the 1999-2008 RI but if you can play it doesnt matter as its all in the hands. The 93,94,95 guitars were notable for their wild flame tops but they look dipped in plastic as the clear coat was heavy. I suspect the wild tops used were western maple not the eastern maple. Look at the PRS and other models with wild flame tops, its western maple. For the most part, real 58 & 59's didnt have top like that as that wood was reserved for the archtops. Virtually all 59 flame tops in late 93 & 94 were painted by Tom Murphy. If you find one, ck the body cavity for his initials but the seller will probably know. Prices for this period run 6,500-8,000---very pricey. For that amount be patient and look for a 1999 Anniversary 59 RI. The first 35 were done by Murphy and will run in the 7-8k area but it will always be worth that amount of more. Really, anything in the 1999 59 RI anniversary family the way to go from a money/business standpoint as they are a "first run". The 2000-2008 59 Murphy aged RI are great and run 5,500-6,000 used. Again, be patient and get one for 5,500 and you will never lose a dime. One last thing, on the 1999-2008 Historic models, the mahogony body before routing cant weigh more that 4lbs. The prior years and VOS dont have graded and weighed bodys. You see these "chambered" fancy LP. Those are just heavy bodys with holes drilled in them with a nice top and paint job. Out of 1000 mahogony bodys, only 3-4 will weigh 4lbs or less. Your paying for that.
05-22-2008 08:50 PM

[Motorcycle]

I don't think the year means shit to quality. I have a 2007 R9 and I A/B'ed that thing against a slew of guitars from different years, R7's, R8's, R0's, G0's and other R9's. The one I bought was, in my opinion clearly superior in tone. It was also the lightest. I did find that generally all the historics were pretty close in playability.

Anyway, here's what you do: grab two guitars you like, strum both unplugged, while the guitar is still sounding, lightly touch the tip of the headstock and see how well it vibrates. Do the same thing with the lower strap button. When you strum it is there life in the body ? Does it move/vibrate as you play it ? Does it resonate well for a solid body ? Now select an amp that you like that's readily available in all stores, set both guitars to the exact same settings. Set the amp to a tone you like and remember that setting. Now plug in guitar A and strum an open e chord. Play a riff you like. Listen for clarity of notes, bass, treble response, and general tone. Play it for awhile. How's it sound above the 12th fret ? Open notes ? Now just before you swap it for the other guitar, strum that open e again, paste that sound in your memory, now swap guitars - and hit that open e again. Sounds different don't it ? Decide which you like best. Take the one you don't like back to the clerk and grab another one and repeat the process. Now that you've decided which one sounded, felt, and played best to you in that store, now go to another store and do it all over again with the same amp set to those settings that you committed to memory. (I knew what amps were in both stores, in my case a JVM Marshall) Repeat in as many stores as possible. Don't worry too much about your ear in terms of determining good tone - it's all about what sounds good to you anyway. Now that you've found that one guitar that sounds good go home and enjoy it - but, if you really want to be sure (and I did) take that guitar to the competition and A/B it against whatever you thought might be as good or better. Don't worry - they'll let you do anything if they think there's the possibility of a sale. For me, my original choice easily won, and so I learned to trust my ear. I got two things from all this effort. A guitar that I know suits me better than anything else in the area. And the opportunity to develop my ear. A funny story is that a few weeks after this I was in one of those stores and a clerk that works there was thinking of buying a Les Paul and doesn't he hand it to me and ask me to play it and let him know what I thought of it !

I know this sounds like a long drawn out pain in the ass - and it was - but for me it was absolutely worth every bit of the effort I put in.

And here's the result (I was thinking of calling it Ali - as in Mohammed Ali - since it beat all contenders):

[sewood]

HEY MOTORCYCLE, YOUR DEAD ON RIGHT ABOUT HOW TO EVALUATE AN ELECTRIC PRIOR TO PURCHASE. [I] HAVE NEVER PLUGGED AN ELECTRIC IN BEFORE GOING THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS. A GOOD LP SHOULD SOUND FAT, SHARP, LOUD AND CRISP ALL THE WAY UP THE NECK AND THE HEAD STOCK SHOULD BE ROCKIN. ONE OTHER TEST IS PLAY CORDS AND PUT YOUR EAR TO THE BOUT. iF IT RINGS OUT LIKE A SYMPHONY FULL OF HARMONICS, YOUR IN BUSINESS. ANY LP THAT PASSES THOSE TESTS WILL SOUND GOOD PLUGGED INTO ANY AMP. GOOD ADVISE

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by mplecha

They started reissuing a guitar when it was less than a year old?

it was a joke son

[Liam]

Anyway, here's what you do: grab two guitars you like, strum both unplugged, while the guitar is still sounding, lightly touch the tip of the headstock and see how well it vibrates...etc. etc.

Or just buy the one that sounds the best plugged in. Or even buy the one with coolest looking top.

[Mike60]

Originally Posted by loaded six string

A 1959 re-issue made in '83 IS a R9. 1983 is just the year that guitar was made.

since when has there been an R9 made in 1983?

People get confused with reissue, Custom shop, Historic Collection (which started two years before the Historics) Historic, VOS, R9, preissues, preHistoric etc. It would take a pretty complex venn diagram to explain it all.

[Encinitastubes]

My R8 sounds incredible unplugged. My R7 less so, but sounds superior plugged in; go figure.

[R9.]

Originally Posted by sewood

One last thing, on the 1999-2008 Historic models, the mahogony body before routing cant weigh more that 4lbs. The prior years and VOS dont have graded and weighed bodys. You see these "chambered" fancy LP. Those are just heavy bodys with holes drilled in them with a nice top and paint job. Out of 1000 mahogony bodys, only 3-4 will weigh 4lbs or less. Your paying for that.

The "prior years and VOS" line has me stumped. I have a 2007 R9 VOS. Are you saying that the body did or did not weigh less than 4lbs before routing? VOS is just an external finish. Everything else between a R9 VOS and R9 RI is the same.
(I'm confused )

Chambered guitars don't have holes drilled in them, they're practically gutted. This is chambering:

[stinger]

Originally Posted by Tim A

The "prior years and VOS" line has me stumped. I have a 2007 R9 VOS. Are you saying that the body did or did not weigh less than 4lbs before routing? VOS is just an external finish. Everything else between a R9 VOS and R9 RI is the same.
(I'm confused )

R9 VOS and R9 RI are the same thing. In fact, there is no "RI" as the R in R9 means Reissue. VOS is a finish style but Gibson uses that designation as a series name. You might look at the VOS series as the standard for historics with the aged finish and aged hardware. But they offer gloss as a special upgrade finish. So the historics are currently all VOS with the noted exception of the gloss upgrade.