n00b needing help. "Historic" vs. "VOS"

[ncook]

I'm planning on buying a VOS Les Paul very soon, but I was wondering, is the VOS and the Historic the same thing? I read in an ad that the Historic has a superior finish (I guess implying that the aged finish is cheaper or lesser quality). The important factor for me is the very best reproduction of the late 50's early 60's Les Pauls. I don't want a chambered body, I do want the long neck tenon, etc., as close to the original as possible. Thanks in advance!

[R9.]

Same thing.

The Reissue looks like a new guitar.
The VOS looks slightly aged.
Other than that, they're the same guitar.
The VOS is around 300 cheaper.
Either way, you can't go wrong.

Just so you know, new historics are replicas of the originals...but not exact replicas. Be sure to post photos when you buy it!

[ncook]

Originally Posted by Tim A

Same thing.

The Reissue looks like a new guitar.
The VOS looks slightly aged.
Other than that, they're the same guitar.
The VOS is around 300 cheaper.
Either way, you can't go wrong.

Just so you know, new historics are replicas of the originals...but not exact replicas. Be sure to post photos when you buy it!

Thanks for the reply, if the Historics aren't exact replicas of the originals, I assume neither are the VOS. Why isn't it an exact replica? Minor details or ...?

[Lester B. Flat]

Originally Posted by ncook

Thanks for the reply, if the Historics aren't exact replicas of the originals, I assume neither are the VOS. Why isn't it an exact replica? Minor details or ...?

If they were exact replicas Gibson wouldn't be able to 'improve' them and raise the price every year.

[twinrider1]

Here's how I look at it. VOS is just a finish option. You can get a Historic with either the VOS finish or the GLOSS finish.

I noticed the Gibson website makes it look like VOS is it's own line. I don't understand what they gain by that to be honest. But I guess they do.

[sapi]

Originally Posted by ncook

Thanks for the reply, if the Historics aren't exact replicas of the originals, I assume neither are the VOS. Why isn't it an exact replica? Minor details or ...?

Why:

Neck shape (although they varied back then) - also depends if you're going eg. an R8, R9 or R0, the R0 having the smallest neck contour.
Pickups
Studs (nowadays brass not steel)
Fretboard (it was Brazilian Rosewood)
Capacitors
Glue
Nut
Truss Rod
Finish
Wood - slow growth vs today's
Plastic/hardware detail

There may be other details, others may chime in. Not sure if present day Historic frets are narrower than late '59's 0.098" width (approx).
Best,
jo

[LPCollector]

It has been said but I'm gonna say it again...cause it's a pet peeve of mine..........VOS is just a finish option....PERIOD.
VOS specs are no different than what we have had for a while.

[denwing]

Welcome to the blackhole of "wanting the best reproduction of the 50s/60s Les pauls"... lol. You'll have a very good "start" with whatever Historic you choose!

[ncook]

Thanks for the info. Can you guys fill me in on what the "R8, R9, R0" indicates?

[R9.]

1958 reissue
1959 reissue
etc.

[ncook]

Originally Posted by Tim A

1958 reissue
1959 reissue
etc.

Oh, that makes sense. Is there price variation among the reissue years (besides finish option costs)? E.g., is the R9 more expensive than the R8, or visa versa.

[R9.]

Price difference? Oh hell ya!!

Go to musiciansfriend.com or guitarcenter.com to get a ball park idea on prices.

Generally, '59 & '60 will cost the most.

[twinrider1]

In general (there are no absolutes with Gibson)....

R7
Goldtop finish
Thickest Neck

R8
Plaintop Burst
Maybe a little thinner than R7

R9
Flametop Burst
Thinner neck than R7/R8
BIG upcharge for flametop.
(R8/$3100 versus R9/$5200, from Musician's Friend, just for example)

R0
Flametop Burst
Thinnest neck
I think they're about the same $ as R9's, maybe higher, not certain.

G0
Basically a Guitar Center special order that is just like a R0, except it has a plain top. Considered a sleeper, excellent value.
Might be even thinner neck than R0.

[ncook]

Originally Posted by twinrider1

In general (there are no absolutes with Gibson)....

R7
Goldtop finish
Thickest Neck

R8
Plaintop Burst
Maybe a little thinner than R7

R9
Flametop Burst
Thinner neck than R7/R8
BIG upcharge for flametop.
(R8/$3100 versus R9/$5200, from Musician's Friend, just for example)

R0
Flametop Burst
Thinnest neck
I think they're about the same $ as R9's, maybe higher, not certain.

G0
Basically a Guitar Center special order that is just like a R0, except it has a plain top. Considered a sleeper, excellent value.
Might be even thinner neck than R0.

Excellent post, thanks!

I will definitely post my selection when I score it. It looks like I'll be getting a R7 (partly because of cost, but mostly because I like the gold top). That is if I don't decide to save a while and get the R9. I can't help but to think 20 years in the future, will I be kicking myself in the rear for not getting a R9 when I had the chance (assuming they'll rocket in value as compared to the R7).

[R9.]

You should look at gibsoncustom.com...there's more than just the R7 if you want a gold top reissue.

[diceman]

Not to thread hijack - but the Gibson rep was in our local shop yesterday, and put in my order for a "Gloss" R8 in Tobacco (two, actually - the owner said that he'd get second so that I can choose between two of them).

I'd also noticed that the Gibson CS website doesn't say anything about the "Gloss" option - it makes it sound like all reissues are VOS. I asked him about that - and he said that some models are made but not really advertised (he had a word for it - I can't remember) - such as the "Gloss" Historics, and the USA Les Paul Junior (non Billie Joe model).

And now, I continue to wait! Did my down payment a couple weeks ago, the order went through yesterday, and the first shipment of the reauthorization will come next month. Patience is a virtue I guess - one which I wasn't blessed with!

[ncook]

Do you guys on this forum keep your eyes open for deals and post them for other forumites? I know they do that on other forums I belong to, if that happens here too, I'd like to know, I'm hoping for a decent deal so I can get into one a little sooner. 50 eyes are better than two, right?

[diceman]

There is some discussion at the "online auction" section about good deals that people see... Usually the discussion is about vintage and fake auctions, though. Keep an eye on the members classifieds as well.

[sewood]

If you reaally want to know the fifference, a new 59 VOS runs around 4,700-4,900 new but a used one sells for around 2,500. VOS doesnt have graded mahogony bodys. On the Historic 59 RI, the body before routing cant weigh more than 4lbs. Thats 3-4 out of 1,000. The Historic 59 RI is made in much small numbers than the VOS. Just ck E-Bay or GBASE. For the money you spend on a new VOS, buy a used Historic 59 RI. The real truth is if you can play, it doesnt matter

[diceman]

Is that true of the 58 VOS versus RI as well?

[R9.]

Originally Posted by sewood

If you reaally want to know the fifference, a new 59 VOS runs around 4,700-4,900 new but a used one sells for around 2,500. VOS doesnt have graded mahogony bodys. On the Historic 59 RI, the body before routing cant weigh more than 4lbs. Thats 3-4 out of 1,000. The Historic 59 RI is made in much small numbers than the VOS. Just ck E-Bay or GBASE. For the money you spend on a new VOS, buy a used Historic 59 RI. The real truth is if you can play, it doesnt matter

Maybe I misunderstood this whole post. A 59 VOS is a 59 RI. VOS just refers to the aging process...or finish...Gibson puts on the guitar. VOS also costs around $300 less because Gibson doesn't have to polish the hardware to a fine shine.

The non-VOS reissues are made in smaller numbers because right now everybody wants the VOS finish. Trust me I know, I wanted a high gloss R8 and was told the wait might be up to 3 months.

Again, aside from the finish, a VOS is the same thing as a reissue. They're both historics.

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by sewood

If you reaally want to know the fifference, a new 59 VOS runs around 4,700-4,900 new but a used one sells for around 2,500. VOS doesnt have graded mahogony bodys. On the Historic 59 RI, the body before routing cant weigh more than 4lbs. Thats 3-4 out of 1,000. The Historic 59 RI is made in much small numbers than the VOS. Just ck E-Bay or GBASE. For the money you spend on a new VOS, buy a used Historic 59 RI. The real truth is if you can play, it doesnt matter

OK, first of all where in the hell are you buying $2500 used R9's?????
Please point me in that direction.....

Secondly, VOS is NOT a model.......just a finish on a model...the model here is the Historic or the Re-issue which are the same model.
In the historic line (or re-issue) there is only two options......glossy or VOS.

I don't mean to jump on you here, this is just a pet peeve of mine.

[R9.]

LPCollector, so, if I understood you correctly, a historic/reissue is a different guitar than a VOS?

[LPCollector]

...................................

[stinger]

VOS is a finish. It is meant to simulate a 50 year old well kept guitar. It is the standard finish for the Reissue/Historics right now. For an extra $300 you can get a gloss finish. A gloss R9 and a VOS R9 are the same except for the finish style. Both are historic/reissues.

Honestly Gibsons adverts are very misleading here but at the risk of redundancy, VOS is a finish style just as Gloss is a finish style. The rest of the guitars are the same spec wise.

[Lester B. Flat]

I don't get the VOS finish. Even old beat up, banged, and checked guitars have more gloss between the scratches, gashes and checking lines than that. I've never seen an old guitar with what looks like a VOS finish.

[thegaindeli]

If that's not enough... VOS stands for: "Vintage Original Spec".Mmmmm... What in the hell does a dulled finish have to do with the original specifications? I can see if it stood for "Virtual Old Stock"...but hat would make too much sense!

[specflec]

And... I was informed that, if the VOS R8 I was looking at was taken to the back of this place and polished, it would come back out as a glossy finish. I had no reason to doubt this. But...

[GuitarnLax36]

Back in 05 when I got my lester R8 there was no VOS finish mines a glossy beast LOL

[ZombieAttack]

Sorry, VOS is the current line of what most people call "Historics". The Vintage Original Spec guitars just happen to have the dulled finish - others things changed besides the finish when they started calling them VOS guitars. Think about it - Gibson calling a finish "Vintage Original Spec" makes no sense at all. There are no new Historic guitars - just VOS guitars, and VOS guitars with gloss finish, coming out of the Gibson Custom shop.

If you go to the Gibson product page you will find product categories:

Inspired By
Vintage Original Spec
Modern
Artist Models
50th Anniversary

There are no Historic guitars anymore. Just like there are no more Custom Authentic guitars anymore. Just trying to clear things up - not piss anyone off.