Stingers....?

[Vintage_Burster]

Ive read all about them and still dont understand them. Can someone explain why they are rare and whats special about them?

Peace.

[LPCollector]

If you have read all about them.......I don't understand why you are asking?

If you haven't seen this, it might explain more.

The Stinger Guitar Page

They are, in my opinion, the best reissues ever made.

[Gavin Morse]

They aren't rare and they aren't special. A corporate merger series of guitars.

[LPCollector]

“The Stinger Series Is All About Tone”, to borrow a phrase from Edwin Wilson the Historic Program Director for Gibson’s Custom, Art, and Historic Shop.

written by; Dave Carpenter, creator of the Stinger series

By January of 2003 after two very successful runs of Gibson Les Paul guitars, the Music Machine Twenty Fifth Anniversary 1960 Gibson Les Paul Reissue series and the Edwin Wilson series 1959 Gibson Les Paul Reissue Blister Tops, both series were offered on www.guitarsale.com Now Music Machine/ www.guitarsale.com was ready to work with Gibson Custom Art and Historic to bring to the market many of the dream electric guitars and features consumers had been asking for and sometimes even begging for. A common theme, was real looks and vintage tone. Those who had bought a Gibson Les Paul from one of the previous two runs remarked about the tone. Both of the previous runs utilized Edwin’s knowledge and recipe of how to build a Gibson Les Paul with “The Tone.” Many previous buyers of the other runs, like Jon Schwartz and Chuck Shenk wanted all the Edwin magic but with other neck dimensions finish options and wood option offerings among other things. So at the 2003 National Association of Music Merchants winter show I sat down with Edwin Wilson and took the compilation of all the comments and consumer wants, needs and desires mixed those with my experience and Edwin’s experience and we wrote the Stinger Series order. It was a large order and a huge commitment for Connie my wife and me. The order took a good part of the day. After completion of the paper work Edwin said that he would go straight away back to Nashville and start pulling the wood for this special run. First and foremost the Stinger Series commitment was that we would deliver “The Tone” and like Edwin Wilson said, “The Stinger Series custom guitars are all about The TONE!”


The truth is described in this excerpt of a forum members post:

"There continues to be a lack of understanding, misconceptions, and false
statements about Les Paul guitars in general, and 2003 Brazilian models
in particular. This is nothing new, and in fact, deliberately false representation
regarding the 2003 LP’s have been going on since 2003. At this point I have
to believe there is an agenda in play here. The same people, repeat the same
incorrect information over and over, even though they know it isn’t true. I
can only assume the purpose for this is so un informed, or under informed
people will read it enough, and eventually will believe it as fact.
Also, even in the best written and factual documentation, terms are misused
and misapplied, and this only exacerbates the confusion."

“Brazilian Rosewood”
This should be simple, shouldn’t it? Well it’s not. Brazilian was well known
by luthiers as a superior Tap Tone Wood. Solid body electric guitars were
not well know in 1952. In an effort to add legitimacy to their guitar, Gibson
chose the best known guitar woods of the day. I have read references that
Gibson had concerns, if they were getting what they were paying for, and
frequently someone from Gibson would go to check on the suppliers.
Brazilian Rosewood is not just desirable in the music industry, and because
of it’s popularity, it has been logged into near extinction. In 1973,
Brazilian Rosewood was added to the CITIES Treaty, Appendix I, as a
severely endangered species. It became illegal to trade in Brazilian Rosewood
that was cut after that date. The supply of what had now become pre-treaty
Brazilian was quickly used up, but the trade of Brazilian continued, as illegal
Brazilian continued to be sold as pre-treaty Brazilian. In 1993, the Forest
Stewardship Council was formed to Certify the sale and use of endangered
wood. It was no longer good enough to just say that the lumber you were
selling was cut before 1973, It now had to be proven, documented, and
certified. Sound difficult? It was. About the only legitimate way to do any
meaningful logging of Brazilian was to have a stand of the old Rosewood
tree stumps documented, and your removal process certified, and a Chain
of Custody set-up. Each stump was recorded, each piece of wood that was
cut from it was counted, and who bought each piece of wood was documented.
I would have thought that in 2003 the conservationists would have applauded
Gibson for their efforts to bring such environmentally responsible, and
difficult to obtain wood to market, considering the obstacles that had to be
overcome. I might have thought that, but I would have been wrong!
The environmentalists and conservationists went nuts. They accused Gibson
of reneging on their promise not to promote the use of endangers woods.
Profiteering on the environment, and corporate irresponsibility. In less than
5 months, the modern era of Brazilian Fretboards was over. By early 2005,
Gibson had renewed it’s commitment to the CITIES Treaty, The Rainforest
Alliance, and The Stewardship Council. Let me take a moment to address
the issue that today’s Brazilian Rosewood is in some way inferior to the Brazilian
Rosewood used in the 1950’s. The Brazilian Rosewood used in 2001, 2002,
and 2003, is not “like” the BR used in the 1950’s. IT IS THE SAME BRAZILIAN
USED IN THE 1950’s. The same trees, the very same tree that the fretboard
on a 1958 Burst was cut from was only a couple of feet away, on the very same
tree. It’s swirly. The Brazilian used in the 1950’s is swirly, all Brazilian is
swirly. That’s the way it grows. From the bottom to the top. In the 1950’s
luthiers had the luxury of cutting out perfect figure from the heart of a plank.
In 2003, there was only a limited supply. Every piece had to be used, but every
wood expert and luthiers I have read agree, that from a performance standpoint,
it is every bit as good as the wood used on the 1950’s guitars. Maybe better, due
to the way it was seasoned. The never-ending myth that the Brazilian
“Stumpwood” used in 2001, 2002, and 2003, is inferior, is spread by people
with an agenda. That knowingly disregard the facts.

[Wallace]

Great Post!

[Vintage_Burster]

So they are like G0's...Made for a certain store? And made by certain Gibson Workers? They are basically a custom spec Reissue?

Oh and are they a continous run, still pumping out today?

[stinger]

Originally Posted by Vintage_Burster

So they are like G0's...Made for a certain store? And made by certain Gibson Workers? They are basically a custom spec Reissue?

Oh and are they a continous run, still pumping out today?

Like a G0 in as much as they were made for a store to sell, but they are not being made anymore and they have the BZW board that makes them more historically accurate. Also, the stinger itself on the back of the neck represents some original burst history as well. So the Stingers are a more special run than a G0's are.

They are a Custom spec Reissue that were made by the Custom Shop workers. Designed by certain people to represent a more accurate Les Paul than the regular Reissue series.

[Vintage_Burster]

Did original burst have stingers?! Cool.

[stinger]

Yes, they had a few and I think they were to cover up some kinda flaw on the back of the neck.

[R9.]

Originally Posted by stinger

Yes, they had a few and I think they were to cover up some kinda flaw on the back of the neck.

Not the neck, the back of the headstock....but yes, you are correct. It's in Beauty of the Burst.

[stinger]

Originally Posted by R9.

Not the neck, the back of the headstock....but yes, you are correct. It's in Beauty of the Burst.

Yup, thats what I meant but not what I wrote, Thanks for clarifying that.

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by Vintage_Burster

So they are like G0's...Made for a certain store? And made by certain Gibson Workers? They are basically a custom spec Reissue?

Oh and are they a continous run, still pumping out today?

Stingers were only made in 2003.

The quantities that were made:

R4= 22
R6= 34
R7= 46
R8= 14
R9= 36
R0= 18

V's= 6
SG= 20
356= 20

[AXE]

A Stinger V ?
Very intriguing

I googled before I posted and don't see much on it ...

I would like to see and learn more on these .

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by ^AXE^

A Stinger V ?
Very intriguing

I googled before I posted and don't see much on it ...

I would like to see and learn more on these .

Here ya go........

[AXE]

Why thank you kind sir ...
A little busier looking than I expected .

[LPCollector]

I'm with you on that.
It has more of a Vintage vibe to it........I like my V's to have that 80's look to them.

[delawaregold]

National Geographic estimates that of the original primary, or “Old Growth”
Atlantic coastal Brazilian Rosewood forest, less than 7% of the 400 to 500
year old trees are still standing in small patches. The only reason they are
still there is because they are located in inaccessible areas, or they would be
gone too.
Since the harvesting has stopped, many of the old forest land has been
replanted with saplings, and there has been an ongoing effort to grow
Brazilian Rosewood for controlled harvest, but none of us will be around in
400 years when that type of mature Rosewood is once again available.

Did you know?

Henry E. Juszkiewicz is on the Board of Directors of The Rainforest Alliance.

CITES
Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora,
was formed in 1973 to actively support and regulate the trade of endangered plant
and animal species.

CITIES immediately called for the ban on trade of Brazilian Rosewood, and by
1993 had international treaties in place that would prohibit the international trade
of Brazilian Rosewood. Brazilian Rosewood is listed on the CITIES Appendix I.

CITIES in 2007 is working towards moving Bigleaf Mahogany
(Swietenia macrophylla) also called Honduras Mahogany, to Appendix II.

Appendix I lists species that are the most endangered among CITES-listed
animals and plants. They are threatened with extinction and CITES prohibits
international trade in specimens of these species.

Appendix II lists species that are not necessarily now threatened with
extinction but that may become so unless trade is closely controlled.

[Gavin Morse]

Not rare and not special. I posted that before in this thread.

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by Gavin Morse

Not rare and not special. I posted that before in this thread.

Wow, slow down with all of the facts and figures and experiences there Bro.......my head is spinning. <---get it?.....My head is spinning?

Oh, come on, that's comedy right there...........

[Martins3325]

Heres one you dont see every day..alas I sold it some time back..
Stinger --#38 I believe--Sunburst Flametop, Wraptail, with Humbuckers, and a '59 neck w/Brazilian. Was very cool! A guitar I wish they produced..beyond the 2 Stingers I think that were made with those specs..of course the head wasn't too shaby either!

[delawaregold]

Wonderful guitar.

It looks to me like one of the Stinger Series 1954 Jeff Beck Models,
but not one that I have seen before. The Schaller tuners and uncovered
Humbuckers, and wrap tail are typical of that model. If you have any
more pictures of it, I certainly would enjoy seeing them. Thanks.

[Martins3325]

Originally Posted by delawaregold

Wonderful guitar.

It looks to me like one of the Stinger Series 1954 Jeff Beck Models,
but not one that I have seen before. The Schaller tuners and uncovered
Humbuckers, and wrap tail are typical of that model. If you have any
more pictures of it, I certainly would enjoy seeing them. Thanks.

Yes thats what it was..a 54JB..but the build sheet called for a '59 neck profile..unfortunately due to computer crashes I lost most of my photos. I used to have an excel spreadsheet I got from the original owner..who I was told got it from music machine that listed each stinger guitar made, color, serial, and neck profile..i'll have to dig and see if it was lost from the compter issues. There was a quilt top one I almost bought but didnt..I should email the guy and see if he still has it!!!

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by Martins3325

Yes thats what it was..a 54JB..but the build sheet called for a '59 neck profile..unfortunately due to computer crashes I lost most of my photos. I used to have an excel spreadsheet I got from the original owner..who I was told got it from music machine that listed each stinger guitar made, color, serial, and neck profile..i'll have to dig and see if it was lost from the compter issues. There was a quilt top one I almost bought but didnt..I should email the guy and see if he still has it!!!

Beautiful Jeff Beck!

Did the spreadsheet look like this one?

models

As you see it probably wasn't #38........cause only 22 were made......but I can't remember my own phone number half of the time........

[WBPickups]

Originally Posted by Martins3325

OH MY GOD! I just had a movement....