Feeling stuck, advice neded

[RovBloom]

Hello everyone, I recently started feeling quite stuck with my licks and over all playing, i'm not entirely self taught but right now i don't have a teacher or anything, i've noticed that my picking hand is not really fast, i don't mean to be a shredder, i play mostly blues and rock stuff but sometimes i watch some people like Marc Ford (Black Crowes, Neptune Blues Club), Craig Ross (Lenny Kravitz), Warren Haynes (Allman Bros., Gov't Mule), Mike Mccready (Pearl Jam, Mad Season, The Rockfords) and so on, playing nice licks quite fast and i really wanna get some faster picking like that, so my questions are:

How can i build some more speed in my picking hand?
Is it better to play from the wrist or from the thumb or from the elbow? (i personally feel better playing from the wrist)
Are there any excercises for this that you people can show me?

Thanks in advance to everyone.


Jo

[AngryHatter]

It happens all the time.
Clear your head - however you do that.
Me?
I'd take some music I had not previously played with and make my playing take a left turn, so to speak.
One summer in Cape Cod - I was a pure Jimi, Cactus, Mountain player - I spent the summer playing with Dark Side of the Moon.
I was free of my block, early that summer.

[River]

Play around with different picks.

[LPS24]

his problem is not the picks, i feel what he's talking about, i have the same problem. usually i get stuck for a while at one thing and just one day randomly i get so much better...its weird man

[RovBloom]

I got some videos from Youtube as an example of what these guys play

McCready

YouTube - Mike McCready's Best Live Solos

YouTube - Mike McCready's Best Live Solos

Ross

YouTube - Lenny Kravitz Glasgow 2009 Craig Ross guitar solo

YouTube - Lenny Kravitz Glasgow 2009 Craig Ross guitar solo

Haynes (This one's got a very low volume sorry)

YouTube - Warren Haynes Solo

YouTube - Warren Haynes Solo

Ford (I couldn't find any excerpt so this is the whole song, solo starts at 3:09)

YouTube - Crowes w/ Marc Ford High Head Blues

YouTube - Crowes w/ Marc Ford High Head Blues

Thanx again, hope you like them videos.

[RovBloom]

I've tried the picks change man, but i think is more of a "motion" thing to call it somehow.

Any practice tips?

I also think Slash while not being exactly a shredder plays some really fast licks, as i said before, i'm not interested in playing a thousand noter per beat, just wanna get a more fluid kind of fast playing but i haven't found the way to develop it yet.

Here's a video from Slash

YouTube - Velvet Revolver: Slash Solo

YouTube - Velvet Revolver: Slash Solo

[River]

Originally Posted by LPS24

his problem is not the picks, i feel what he's talking about, i have the same problem. usually i get stuck for a while at one thing and just one day randomly i get so much better...its weird man

Well, OK, "whatever". I get my right-hand-technique breakthroughs by changing picks and then changing back. Your mileage may vary.

If you know what his problem is, solve it for him. I'll keep my mouth shut.

[RovBloom]

AngryHatter that's a great advice man, thanx, haven't thought about the mental thing until a few days ago, right now i've been playing some stuff i had never played before like Rocksteady and some old school ska as well as some Mike Bloomfield style improvisation and yeah i felt i got nice stuff out of it, but this time it's more of a technical matter, i don't know how to practice focusing exactly in my pickin speed.

[RovBloom]

Hey River i appreciate your advice man, and also i've tried it but i guess it's something hard to explain for me 'cause it's different this time, more of a "muscular" thing maybe?

[River]

Originally Posted by RovBloom

Hey River i appreciate your advice man, and also i've tried it but i guess it's something hard to explain for me 'cause it's different this time, more of a "muscular" thing maybe?

They're all muscular things. And all muscular things are mental things.

Try reading a few paragraphs from a book while doing your speed drills. I shit you not.

[jerryo]

YouTube - Ultimate Speed Shred Picking guitar lesson with Rob Chappers - Part One

YouTube - Ultimate Speed Shred Picking guitar lesson with Rob Chappers - Part One

[RovBloom]

Great Video, I'm gonna start applying those advices, thanx jerryo!

River, you're like some wise man i guess, i agree with what you say completely, sometimes i forget about that kind of stuff because i'm too busy thinking on getting things out quick, thanx again.

[LPS24]

Originally Posted by River

Well, OK, "whatever". I get my right-hand-technique breakthroughs by changing picks and then changing back. Your mileage may vary.

If you know what his problem is, solve it for him. I'll keep my mouth shut.

no man its not like that
i can't solve it for him but i can say that when i get stuck at learning a lick, or right hand picking slowly i usually start off a lick slow, i look at my fingers doing it and try to understand it. few hours later after a quick nap i can play it a bit faster..so on.
peace!

[fatb0t]

Learn some easy pentatonic patterns and practice them with a metronome. Go from 80 BPM to 160. By the time you get to 160 you'll be hauling ass boy!

[jerryo]

This may help:

I just got a Boss RC20xl 'Loop Station'....

What an excellent practice thing this is !

Law down a chord progression and just riff till you are satisfied.

It really helps one to dig down and 'find their self' on the Guitar so to speak.

[Duane24]

learn new scales and modes, from there new licks will come.

[Agave_Blue]

Some interesting stuff in the vid. I'll note, though, that the tennis "center point" analogy falls apart to some extent.

In tennis, you don't know where the ball will be on the next return. On the guitar, with a composition, you DO know where the next pick strike has to occur.

So you can combine economy of motion (minimization of motion) with effeciency (i.e. going toward the next pick strike).

I'm far (FAR!!) too inexperienced to offer much help or take advantage of much of what is being discussed here. BUT, even I have found that ineffecient picking = slow(er) picking. You can't always optimize the direction your pick moves, but when you can, it helps (helps me anyhow).

[Teamja]

yah, it seems like you have to work on your picking technique...

jimmy herring has a great hybrid picking technique. people have talked about it in other forums...i can't find anything right now.

focussing on the down/up technique through your scales helps increase speed especially using a metronome (which is a must!).

jeff

[RovBloom]

I started to do my regular exercises trying to use the best from your advice guys, it's still to soon to notice a big change but i can tell you that this has really helped me out in finding some mistakes in my picking technique so i started feeling quite more comfortable.

About the loop pedal, usually i do something like that with my laptop, i use garage band to record some backing tracks and then practice some stuff over it and yeah it really helps to develop your own sound and finding interesting licks.

Duane24 about the new scales/modes, in fact i feel like i gave that aspect so much interest that i stopped paying much attention to the technical side man, but you're right coming out of the box always helps so much, by the way i guess we share (along with thousands of people surely) a hero in the great Skydog man, that's nice!

[RovBloom]

BTW a more specific question: I found that i usually use my wrist for the alternate picking and as the video said maybe i should start with my thumb but it doesn't feel as right as my wrist, in your experience which woud be the choice to make, the one that feels right?

[Agave_Blue]

Originally Posted by RovBloom

BTW a more specific question: I found that i usually use my wrist for the alternate picking and as the video said maybe i should start with my thumb but it doesn't feel as right as my wrist, in your experience which woud be the choice to make, the one that feels right?

You do anything long enough and it'll feel right, even if it's not. Then, when you try to use the correct technique, it'll feel awful. For a while; then, eventually, it will feel normal.

[RovBloom]

You do anything long enough and it'll feel right, even if it's not. Then, when you try to use the correct technique, it'll feel awful. For a while; then, eventually, it will feel normal.

Yeah, i'll keep trying out the thumb stuff man, i really wish to improve.

[Quill]

Wow! I was going to jump in with a bunch of stuff, but I watched the video that Rob Chappers made - the one that jerryo posted - and I couldn't improve on that. Great expanation, I completely agree. The centre-point idea? He's not making a big deal out of that - it's just a way to illustrate economy of movement. And, if you are improvising, or are generally a crazily unpredictable, not always successful, musical leaf-in-the-wind like me, you don't know what's going to happen next! You might need to suddenly be on the far edge of the court/guitar neck, so it's a good idea to be really relaxed and well aware of where your musical centre is.

The one thing I used to say to my students, and the thing I think is important to consider, is to be aware of how you are working your wrist. Your wrist is vulnerable, so is your forearm - all those bones, all those long tendons and nerves. Don't be stupid about this. Think about it, and learn what's healthy.

Imagine swinging a hammer. Think about the way the bones of the wrist are articulating - or, "moving". That movement is movement I call going across the wrist. It's one of the two possible picking movements.

Now hold your forearm out in front of you, palm down, and completely let your hand and forearm relax. Drop the fingers and thumb. No energy or tension in your fingers and thumb at all - just let them hang there. Now, just really gently move your arm back and forth, with all the muscle action at the elbow. Keep the forearm relaxed. Notice the way your hand swings, and the way the bones of the wrist articulate in this movement. That kind of movement is movement I call around the wrist. Totally different than the hammer swing.

If you've tried that, and see the difference, then hopefully my next comment will make sense. Some players pick across the wrist. When I taught guitar lessons, I noticed this was more common with self-taught players who started on guitars with flat tops and relatively low bridges, like Strats and Teles, for some reason. Something about those guitars seems to cause some players to drop their wrists onto the bridge in kind of an awkward way. And many players I've known, not everyone but any is too many, really talented people, eventually hurt themselves trying to pick that way. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Tendonitis, other problems too. If you tried the movement, you'll probably see why.

Some players pick around the wrist. Doesn't seem to matter about the kind of guitar; everyone I know who plays like this were either taught this way of doing it, or thought seriously about their picking, and considered things like economy of movement, how to be relaxed and efficient, and figured out for themselves how to play in ways that wouldn't cause stupid repetitive-motion injuries. They can play like the wind, and some of them are old players who've been doing it for decades with no sign of letting up, and absolutely no trace of injury. And have killer good sound, total control over dynamics, and have no trouble palm-muting, when they need to do that.

Food for thought.

[RovBloom]

Really interesting Quill, could you possibly illustrate the "'round the wrist" movement?

Right now i've been practicing picking using only my thumb's movement, it feels awkward but i guess it's because i actually played "across the wrist" but it does feel more relaxed, is it closer to the "around the wrist" movement you are talking about? I really don't wanna hurt myself

[Quill]

Don't worry in the short term. Wrist injuries from picking - from any repetitive motion - happen over a period of years. Sorry, man - last thing I wanted to do was to introduce fear or worry into your learning, that was terrible of me. Please try to relax and not worry. It's a danger of this section of the forum - really, I don't know enough about you to be writing to you in that way.

The thing to do is keep working on your playing. You're thinking about it, that's the most important thing. If you can stay relaxed, that's the main thing. You can bring in small changes to improve your hand position over time, as you learn, and it'll just keep getting better. All you really have to do, to avoid injury, is to not ignore pain and discomfort! Yours hands will tell you what is right - they might complain a bit as you try to change habits, but listen to what's happening in your hands, down deep - that's where the important facts of the matter are.

I'll see if I can get a friend to take some pictures over the weekend, maybe I can show you what I mean, and you can try it. See you later!

[Quill]

Maybe I could say this much, and it'll make sense without a picture:

If you put your hand and forearm into the same loose, dropped position it was in for the "around the wrist" description I gave above, you're almost there. In that position, your hands are loose, your fingers are heavy and hanging loose, and the wrist is bent from the weight of your hand. Then, put just enough energy into your forearm muscles to curl the fingers of your hand in toward the palm - just enough, not too much. Keep it really soft and loose. Let your index finger curl in far enough so it is across from your thumb. Then, let your thumb just touch the side of your index finger.

That is a perfect starting hand position for flat-picking. Well, if you are following my description exactly, it would be the perfect hand position, if the guitar was laying flat in your lap. All you have to do is just rotate your arm 90 degrees, and it's there. Make sense?

And maybe these simple images will help a bit to describe the motion. When you pick, don't swing a hammer. Turn a screwdriver instead. Rotational motion, back and forth, as short a motion as possible, and loose and relaxed all the time. You can tighten up and dig in later, for effect. For now, just concentrate on being loose and relaxed.

If you can stay loose and get a nice, clear centre to your notes, you are away. Good luck!

[RovBloom]

Brilliant explanation man!

It just feels like starting over again, kind of sad but i'm gonna do it right this time.

Thanx man.

[mtgguitar]

Speed Mechanics For Lead Guitar - Book/CD by Troy Stetina is a good book by a good teacher. He demonstrates 'economy of motion' and provides simple lessons to get you up to speed.

[jonmirra]

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

It happens all the time.
Clear your head - however you do that.
Me?
I'd take some music I had not previously played with and make my playing take a left turn, so to speak.
One summer in Cape Cod - I was a pure Jimi, Cactus, Mountain player - I spent the summer playing with Dark Side of the Moon.
I was free of my block, early that summer.

Gotta agree with this man.

Whatever the rut, picking speed, bending technique, there's a lot of stuff to get hung up on.

It's been my experience that going in a different direction for a while will cure what ails ya, and bring you right back to where you want to be.

A lot of this stuff (arguable how much, some, or all..) is motor memory. My head can get tripped up by stuff, and it seems like I can never get it right if I beat the same horse all the time.

I've gone as far as playing stuff I hate just to.. I don't know.. Clear it, like Hatter said.
For me it's a weird brain thing.

Just my experience. Best luck man.

[Nightrain]

Originally Posted by RovBloom

I've tried the picks change man, but i think is more of a "motion" thing to call it somehow.

Any practice tips?

I also think Slash while not being exactly a shredder plays some really fast licks, as i said before, i'm not interested in playing a thousand noter per beat, just wanna get a more fluid kind of fast playing but i haven't found the way to develop it yet.

Here's a video from Slash

YouTube - Velvet Revolver: Slash Solo

Slash for one uses a lot of hammer-ons and pull-offs, he's not picking every note. I don't know much about the other players so I can't comment on 'em.