Master of Puppets rhythm part

PGblues · 07-13-2009, 04:50 AM

Hello!

I just wanted to ask you how it is possible to learn the rhythm part of this song...the downstroke-only approach of James that makes the main riff sound so chunky is driving me mad...I'm pretty good at alternate picking, my picking hand is fast, but...how on earth does he manage to play THAT fast with using all downstrokes? Every time I play along with the record, my picking hand starts to burn after a minute...

Could you maybe give me some advice: how can I train my downstroke technique? Does it simply take years of practice to make your hand as fast as that of James?

Thank you for your replies!

Jody · 07-13-2009, 05:00 AM

Its all down strokes...Thats is what James and Kirk call the "Jackhammer" style of picking.....Creeping Death also has it ...
I found that alternate picking those parts makes them sound muffeled/sloppy...
Just find a comfortable spot with your picking hand and try not to kill it at first...Take it a step at a time....You'll get it....and keep some Ben-Gay,or Icyhot handy...

Remember the first 2 notes to that rythym are palm muted..
The third should ring out.

Beerdog80 · 07-13-2009, 05:00 AM

how you ask? Years of practice on the same technique.

HellfireLP · 07-13-2009, 11:36 AM

metronome is a must also...learn the riff, slow it down practice the hell out of it and slowly get faster and faster with it...the down-pick technique take time, if you go to fast you can hurt muscles...go slow use a metronome.....

HellfireLP · 07-13-2009, 11:38 AM

it wont take years...maybe a couple of months of woodshedding...meaning dedicated practice...remember to always warm up before you charge in, and as odd as it sounds when you start to feel the burn try to relax your wrist/arm not tighten up...

Guitarsquirrel7 · 07-13-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGblues

Hello!

I just wanted to ask you how it is possible to learn the rhythm part of this song...the downstroke-only approach of James that makes the main riff sound so chunky is driving me mad...I'm pretty good at alternate picking, my picking hand is fast, but...how on earth does he manage to play THAT fast with using all downstrokes? Every time I play along with the record, my picking hand starts to burn after a minute...

Could you maybe give me some advice: how can I train my downstroke technique? Does it simply take years of practice to make your hand as fast as that of James?

Thank you for your replies!

It does not take years, only a few months of GOOD practice.

A good way to train it would be a metronome, yes.

And maybe find some songs that have a slower tempo, and play along with them, only using downstrokes.

PGblues · 07-14-2009, 02:19 AM

Thank you for your tips. Yes, I always practice with a metronome. I have the book "Speed and Thrash Guitar" by Troy Stetina that contains many cool riffs and songs that you can play with "Jackhammer Picking". The problem is that i can handle almost everything up to a tempo of about 180 bpm - I can maintain that tempo for several minutes without problems. However, when I raise the tempo to 192 bpm, my right hand wrist starts to "burn", the notes get more and more muddy, and after about 1 minute, my hand goes KO. And I've been practicing it for quite a while now...It seems to me that it is especially difficult to go from 180 to 190-200 bpm.

Guitarsquirrel7 · 07-14-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGblues

Thank you for your tips. Yes, I always practice with a metronome. I have the book "Speed and Thrash Guitar" by Troy Stetina that contains many cool riffs and songs that you can play with "Jackhammer Picking". The problem is that i can handle almost everything up to a tempo of about 180 bpm - I can maintain that tempo for several minutes without problems. However, when I raise the tempo to 192 bpm, my right hand wrist starts to "burn", the notes get more and more muddy, and after about 1 minute, my hand goes KO. And I've been practicing it for quite a while now...It seems to me that it is especially difficult to go from 180 to 190-200 bpm.

Those #'s are pretty close.

Your almost there!

More practice.

HellfireLP · 07-14-2009, 05:28 PM

the top end gets harder and harder....keep it up though man...if your at 180...keep it up!

PGblues · 07-15-2009, 05:37 AM

Yes, it's getting harder and harder...it was not that difficult to go from 160 to 180, but progress is slowing down when you reach a certain speed. I guess that it will take a lot of time to reach MoP speed. BTW, des anyone of you know what the exact tempo of the piece is?

trypsin · 07-15-2009, 01:36 PM

I seem to recall a Lick Library Video saying it is 300 bpm. I could be way off though.

PGblues · 07-15-2009, 02:29 PM

I don't think that 300 bpm is correct...that's way too fast...I'm not an expert, but I would say that the tempo is somewhere between 190 and 210.

SlaytanicDude · 07-15-2009, 09:34 PM

I have no problem down picking, it comes naturally to me. I have to work to get myself to alternate pick.

trypsin · 07-15-2009, 10:57 PM

Some Googleing Says around 220 BPM. Rusty memory at 26, sigh.

PGblues · 07-16-2009, 03:38 PM

In fact, I managed to play along with the recording for about 2 minutes...it's near the end of the first verse where my picking hand dies...man, I feel rather like an athlete than a guitar player when I play stuff like this...the key to success is rather "training" than "practice"

Guitarsquirrel7 · 07-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGblues

In fact, I managed to play along with the recording for about 2 minutes...it's near the end of the first verse where my picking hand dies...man, I feel rather like an athlete than a guitar player when I play stuff like this...the key to success is rather "training" than "practice"

Your right.
I've never thought of it that way..

I guess a good bit of both won't hurt!

Rikochet · 07-17-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlaytanicDude

I have no problem down picking, it comes naturally to me. I have to work to get myself to alternate pick.

weird, I have a hard time trying not to alternate pick

SlaytanicDude · 07-17-2009, 05:57 PM

I dunno, maybe it's because I started playing thrash metal stuff from the very start, and it's all down picking, or tremelo picking.

PGblues, when you down pick try to keep the movements as short as you can go, as this saves you energy and helps you keep time with the song.

PGblues · 07-18-2009, 03:10 AM

Yes, economy of movement is just as important as it is when you do alternate picking. BTW, I really feel that the work I put in downstrokes has a good effect on my overall playing: I have much more control over the guitar when playing slower rhythm parts.

07-13-2009, 04:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
PGblues Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 69 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Master of Puppets rhythm part Hello! I just wanted to ask you how it is possible to learn the rhythm part of this song...the downstroke-only approach of James that makes the main riff sound so chunky is driving me mad...I'm pretty good at alternate picking, my picking hand is fast, but...how on earth does he manage to play THAT fast with using all downstrokes? Every time I play along with the record, my picking hand starts to burn after a minute... Could you maybe give me some advice: how can I train my downstroke technique? Does it simply take years of practice to make your hand as fast as that of James? Thank you for your replies!

07-13-2009, 05:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Over The Mountain Posts: 7,018 Thanks: 213 Thanked 110 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part Its all down strokes...Thats is what James and Kirk call the "Jackhammer" style of picking.....Creeping Death also has it ... I found that alternate picking those parts makes them sound muffeled/sloppy... Just find a comfortable spot with your picking hand and try not to kill it at first...Take it a step at a time....You'll get it....and keep some Ben-Gay,or Icyhot handy... Remember the first 2 notes to that rythym are palm muted.. The third should ring out. __________________

07-13-2009, 05:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
Beerdog80 Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 58 Thanked 73 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part how you ask? Years of practice on the same technique. __________________ Disclaimer: All of the above statements may/may not be based on true events. Your comprehension will vary, based upon literacy, basic understanding of the English language, and most recent bowel movement (or lack thereof). No resemblance to any persons living, dead, undead or co-existing in a parallel universe is intended.

07-13-2009, 11:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
HellfireLP Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 644 Thanks: 60 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part metronome is a must also...learn the riff, slow it down practice the hell out of it and slowly get faster and faster with it...the down-pick technique take time, if you go to fast you can hurt muscles...go slow use a metronome.....

07-13-2009, 11:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
HellfireLP Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 644 Thanks: 60 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part it wont take years...maybe a couple of months of woodshedding...meaning dedicated practice...remember to always warm up before you charge in, and as odd as it sounds when you start to feel the burn try to relax your wrist/arm not tighten up...

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07-14-2009, 02:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
PGblues Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 69 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part Thank you for your tips. Yes, I always practice with a metronome. I have the book "Speed and Thrash Guitar" by Troy Stetina that contains many cool riffs and songs that you can play with "Jackhammer Picking". The problem is that i can handle almost everything up to a tempo of about 180 bpm - I can maintain that tempo for several minutes without problems. However, when I raise the tempo to 192 bpm, my right hand wrist starts to "burn", the notes get more and more muddy, and after about 1 minute, my hand goes KO. And I've been practicing it for quite a while now...It seems to me that it is especially difficult to go from 180 to 190-200 bpm.

07-14-2009, 05:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
HellfireLP Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 644 Thanks: 60 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part the top end gets harder and harder....keep it up though man...if your at 180...keep it up!

07-15-2009, 05:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
PGblues Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 69 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part Yes, it's getting harder and harder...it was not that difficult to go from 160 to 180, but progress is slowing down when you reach a certain speed. I guess that it will take a lot of time to reach MoP speed. BTW, des anyone of you know what the exact tempo of the piece is?

07-15-2009, 01:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
trypsin Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 81 Thanks: 7 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part I seem to recall a Lick Library Video saying it is 300 bpm. I could be way off though. __________________ Don't test the depth of water with both feet.

07-15-2009, 02:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
PGblues Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 69 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part I don't think that 300 bpm is correct...that's way too fast...I'm not an expert, but I would say that the tempo is somewhere between 190 and 210.

07-15-2009, 09:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
SlaytanicDude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mt Vernon NY Posts: 428 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part I have no problem down picking, it comes naturally to me. I have to work to get myself to alternate pick. __________________

07-15-2009, 10:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
trypsin Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 81 Thanks: 7 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part Some Googleing Says around 220 BPM. Rusty memory at 26, sigh. __________________ Don't test the depth of water with both feet.

07-16-2009, 03:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
PGblues Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 69 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part In fact, I managed to play along with the recording for about 2 minutes...it's near the end of the first verse where my picking hand dies...man, I feel rather like an athlete than a guitar player when I play stuff like this...the key to success is rather "training" than "practice"

07-17-2009, 05:57 PM	#18 (permalink)
SlaytanicDude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mt Vernon NY Posts: 428 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part I dunno, maybe it's because I started playing thrash metal stuff from the very start, and it's all down picking, or tremelo picking. PGblues, when you down pick try to keep the movements as short as you can go, as this saves you energy and helps you keep time with the song. __________________

07-18-2009, 03:10 AM	#19 (permalink)
PGblues Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 69 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Master of Puppets rhythm part Yes, economy of movement is just as important as it is when you do alternate picking. BTW, I really feel that the work I put in downstrokes has a good effect on my overall playing: I have much more control over the guitar when playing slower rhythm parts.

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