Anybody got any interesting scales?

[notjustdrew]

Hi,

There are lots of threads on here for beginners with regards to scales (i.e. here is a pentatonic, this is the major scale, this is what a mode is...) but there aren't any (that I could find- please point out if there are!) with people posting scales they use which are abit different!

So.... if anyone has any interesting scales that I (and others) could use to get away from standard stuff could you please post below (or a link to somewhere)!

Would be useful to mention how you use it etc, what sort of flavour it has, any famous people who use it... but just the scale is fine aswell!

Cheers!

[fatb0t]

The harmonic minor scale and it's mode. Mess around with the phyrgian dominate, it's one of my favorite scales for coming up with interesting metal riffs...

[djlogan33]

Originally Posted by notjustdrew

Hi,

There are lots of threads on here for beginners with regards to scales (i.e. here is a pentatonic, this is the major scale, this is what a mode is...) but there aren't any (that I could find- please point out if there are!) with people posting scales they use which are abit different!

So.... if anyone has any interesting scales that I (and others) could use to get away from standard stuff could you please post below (or a link to somewhere)!

Would be useful to mention how you use it etc, what sort of flavour it has, any famous people who use it... but just the scale is fine aswell!

Cheers!

================================================== ====

I created the attached A-minor Pentatonic scale group.
As your probably know, adjacent "boxes" within the group of 5 overlap each other.
I use only box 1, 3 and 5 as shown in the attachment and the 2-3 scale (the last one shown).
Using these, you use virtually every note on the guitar neck within the 5-notes of the pentatonic in that key.
I have this same sheet for every key. This is how I learned (still learning)...

The challenge is to learn neat sounding ways to mix up the "boxes" (or part of the boxes) up and down the neck with bends, pull-offs etc.
Improvising guitar solos using pentatonic scales is what I enjoy the most...

[alligatorbling]

these scales can get you in trouble....




lmao... but in all seriousness... check out this site =)
GUITAR SCALES

[HogmanA]

You could also maybe try building chords using different modes, eg, using Mixolydian mode, while it might not seem that interesting as it only flattens the 7th note as compared to the major scale, when harmonised, it gives a minor fifth chord.
So, for instance, 12 bar blues in E now has Bm instead of B. Now try playing different modes (or scales, or missing notes out to create pentatonic flavoured lines)over that progression, while paying attention to the differences in the harmony (make up of the chords compared to the scales).

[Phil47uk]

If the truth be known, in Western music there are relatively very few scales that are used. You have the Diatonic major from which you get the modes.
A couple of minor scales. The Pentatonics and that's about it.

Surely there are many many more people ask... The answer is No!

The secret as I have pointed out many many times , but nobody ever seems to want to hear, is their realtionship and functions against chords and visa versa.

Oh yes of course you will get the You-Tube lesson with the anorexic guy with the bleached blond perm, plugged into what looks like a bank of NASA computers who will show you how to play the Iwato or Enigmatic scale at ten thousand miles a second and he will play you the chord Of Bbm7 b5b9 constipated 13th... Great! But how often do you ever find a song with one chord in?. The pupils all go off and spend six months wearing out the batteries in their metronomes trying to achieve warp drive, only to be brought down to earth with a sudden jolt when someone throws another chord at them. The solution in most cases is that they are ****ed big time.

This leads me to believe that whilst many people are obsessed about trying to achieve the ultimate tone and setting their metronomes to 7,000 bpm, very few.. And this is noticable by the content of many posts, seem to even know chords exist, let alone experiment with them other than the old tried and tested power chords, which you hear over and over and over again, on just about every You-Tube video.

Anyway. I'm being long winded as usual, so I'll cut to the quick..

Don't worry yourself about how many scales there are, but learn to achieve different flavours from the ones you already know.
See my thread ,

Spicing up your Pentatonic's

[sliding tom]

Amen to that, Brother Phil!

[Phil47uk]

Originally Posted by sliding tom

Amen to that, Brother Phil!

I Think a learning some chords thread is called for Tom..What say you my man?

[notjustdrew]

(in response to Phil47UK)

....hey,

I'm not stressing about how many scales there are, and don't get me wrong, I appreciate that there are infinite musical possibilities just using the modes of the diatonic.

And I don't think I made any reference to playing fast.

However, it is easy sometimes to get stuck in your ways and I find that when this happens trying to find new approaches to music can be really refreshing and when you return to what you were playing before you have a fresh perspective. Which is what I was looking for.

[Phil47uk]

Originally Posted by notjustdrew

(in response to Phil47UK)

....hey,

I'm not stressing about how many scales there are, and don't get me wrong, I appreciate that there are infinite musical possibilities just using the modes of the diatonic.

And I don't think I made any reference to playing fast.

However, it is easy sometimes to get stuck in your ways and I find that when this happens trying to find new approaches to music can be really refreshing and when you return to what you were playing before you have a fresh perspective. Which is what I was looking for.

Don't worry notjustdrew my post wasn't directly aimed at you, but just generally.
Did you ever check out those video links I posted up in the thread 'So you wanna know about music' . If you didn't check them out, there is some brilliant stuff in there.

[sliding tom]

Originally Posted by Phil47uk

I Think a learning some chords thread is called for Tom..What say you my man?

Absolutely great idea! No chords - no music!

[notjustdrew]

cool, just didn't know where your post was aimed at!

yeh a chord thread would be good- maybe you could extend what you were saying about the use of scales over different chord patterns? try and link things up abit?

[fatb0t]

Chords For Scales - Masterclass Guitar Forum

read up my friend

[notjustdrew]

Cheers, I'll have a read through,

I think the other way around might be more useful though?

[fatb0t]

There's no shortcuts for music theory, though some may lead you to believe differently. I would suggest you read up about the major scale, it's construction, the chords that come from it. One you master that then you can worry about super imposing different scales over chord changes.

Masterclass Guitar Forum -> Andrew's Theory Lessons

My suggestion is read everything in there, like ten times over a course of a year. Eventually it'll all sink in.

[notjustdrew]

Yeh I agree, being self taught I've tried various theory books over the years with mixed success.

Thanks for the link- seems like some useful stuff on there!

[HogmanA]

...there is also the whole-tone scale, check out the Beatles', 'I am the Walrus'

The Beatles rule by the way, and I'm a Scouser too(from England!), but I can't play like them, obviously! (in fact, I'd only be fit to mop the street where there was a 12% possibility of them walking along!, if I was alive, back in the day).

[Mr.GuitarTheory]

Originally Posted by Phil47uk

If the truth be known, in Western music there are relatively very few scales that are used. You have the Diatonic major from which you get the modes.
A couple of minor scales. The Pentatonics and that's about it.

Surely there are many many more people ask... The answer is No!

The secret as I have pointed out many many times , but nobody ever seems to want to hear, is their realtionship and functions against chords and visa versa.

I just have to double this as it's so true. 99% of popular guitar music is based on pentatonic and major scale patterns. You can get an incredible amount of sound from these two sets of patterns including major, minor, modal and blues.

HARMONIC MINOR SCALE
The harmonic minor comes up now and then (more frequently if you're playing Santana solos). In order to apply it correctly, you must first understand the fundamentals of the major scale like building chords and playing progressions.

MELODIC MINOR SCALE
As for the melodic minor scale, I'm hard-pressed to name any recognizable examples other than "Yesterday" by The Beatles ("all my troubles seemed so far away"). This scale is more likely to come up in obscure styles of music like bebop jazz. Again, you'll never understand it until you master more fundamental concepts. Guitar theory is a process after all.

PENTATONIC SCALE SONGS

MAJOR SCALE SONGS

[huw]

Just to add my own two-penneth (or 2c for our over-seas members!), the following has been said many times but is criminally overlooked:

There are only twelve notes - just find out what they sound like.

Sounds simple doesn't it. I believe that most guitarist think it sounds so simple that they never actually get round to doing it...

My personal way of approaching this is to begin with any of the octave shapes, then "fill in the gaps" & find where the thirds are, where the fifth is, where the seventh is etc until I know where all the notes of the chromatic scale are from that root.

It sounds like a lot of work but it's not - for any octave position on the guitar there is a simple major chord shape to go with it (That's the basis of the CAGED system) which you probably already know. So you already know where the third & fifth are in relation to that root. That makes finding each of the rest of the intervals a lot easier. And if you know your pentatonics, you also know where your minor third, fourth & flatened seventh are. See this getting easier?

Enigmatic lydian dominant scales are one thing, but to me it makes more sense to just know where the notes are, then find the sound I want.

Give it a try - play any note on any string of the guitar - now find an octave, either up or down - now try to find the third & fifth, then the fourth, the seventh (natural & flattened), second, sixth. With me so far? Now get the flat sixth, minor third, flat fifth & flat second. Find them all? Great - now you have the basis of playing any sound you can imagine from that root. Find a different starting note (different finger, different string) & begin again...

Take the money you saved for a scale book & spend it on fine wine (or cheap beer, YMMV)

[Joeydego]

Ive posted this one of my faves before. E,F,G#,A,A#,D

[armann]

Originally Posted by Mr.GuitarTheory

HARMONIC MINOR SCALE
(more frequently if you're playing Santana solos).

I always thought he was more of a Dorian guy then Harmonic minor but then again I don't listen to him.

My favorite right now is harmonic minor but give it two days and there will be something else, I have been teaching a few Buckethead songs so natural minor has been used a lot the last few day...

Just to add my two cents about the chord thing, like many of you I teach guitar and it's incredible how many guys don't care about rhythm or chords. I just don't get it, yesterday I was teaching Thunderstruck and the guy just wanted to learn the beginning and the solo, but I said what about the rhythm guitar ? "Nahh don't want to learn that".....what ?
I don't care what anybody says if you can't play rhythm you sure can't solo...

[fatb0t]

People fail to understand that solo is useless without chords. A solo isn't REALLY a solo, because there's music behind it.

[sliding tom]

You just can't solo without knowing what's going on in a song in terms of chord cahnges and rhythm.... but you can NOODLE!

[djlogan33]

Originally Posted by sliding tom

You just can't solo without knowing what's going on in a song in terms of chord cahnges and rhythm.... but you can NOODLE!

================================================== ===
I have hundreds of Blues jam back-tracks in different keys and tempos, with chord and rhythm changes, that I use to practice.
They consist of everything but lead guitar and vocals (drums, bass, keyboard, harp, etc.).
Many of my Blues jam tracks have short solo demos and sheet music with tabs.

My biggest challenge is knowing for sure when and where to use a minor pentatonic scale vs. a major pentatonic scale in certain keys.

When jamming and someone says it’s in a key of "A", I don't always know if it's A-major or A-minor.

Is it correct to assume that when they do not specify “major” or “minor”, its assumed to be a “major”?


It’s my understanding that only difference between a major and minor pentatonic scales is that a major pentatonic scales is played 3-frets down on the neck from the minor pentatonic scale.

My problem is that when playing a minor pentatonic, I am use to emphasizing the “root-note” within the scale.

Playing a major pentatonic the “root note” is in a different position within the scale.

I am so use to playing minor pentatonic scales, even when I know a song is in a major. I have trouble emphasizing the root note in a different position in the scale.

Any suggestions or advice?

[fatb0t]

Originally Posted by djlogan33

================================================== ===
I have hundreds of Blues jam back-tracks in different keys and tempos, with chord and rhythm changes, that I use to practice.
They consist of everything but lead guitar and vocals (drums, bass, keyboard, harp, etc.).
Many of my Blues jam tracks have short solo demos and sheet music with tabs.

My biggest challenge is knowing for sure when and where to use a minor pentatonic scale vs. a major pentatonic scale in certain keys.

When jamming and someone says it’s in a key of "A", I don't always know if it's A-major or A-minor.

Is it correct to assume that when they do not specify “major” or “minor”, its assumed to be a “major”?


It’s my understanding that only difference between a major and minor pentatonic scales is that a major pentatonic scales is played 3-frets down on the neck from the minor pentatonic scale.

My problem is that when playing a minor pentatonic, I am use to emphasizing the “root-note” within the scale.

Playing a major pentatonic the “root note” is in a different position within the scale.

I am so use to playing minor pentatonic scales, even when I know a song is in a major. I have trouble emphasizing the root note in a different position in the scale.

Any suggestions or advice?

Ok, if they say it's in A. It's generally in A Major. The difference between A Major and A Minor is actually pretty significant. The most major interval that's different is the third. The Major has a natural third where as the minor has a flat third. The third interval always defines the tonality of the chord. If it's a natural third its major, if it's a flat 3rd (b3) it's minor!

Let's look at both these scales.

A Major:
A B C# D E F# G#
A Minor:
A B C D E F G

As you can see the third interval is flattened to a C. There's a very large difference between what makes a major scale and what makes a minor scale.
A Major scale has the intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 where a natural minor scale is composed of 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7.

As you can see those formulas differ vastly from one another.

You're right it's difficult to get out of the minor pentatonic rut. I'm still in it to some capacity... you just need to follow the progression and the notes it contains. The minor pentatonic is awesome because it doesn't offer a lot of room for you to mess up over a minor progression (or even a major progression that's a blues tune or something).

There's no easy solution to this... You need to learn the notes that comprise each chord and emphasize them while soloing. The problem with when you learn to solo and they teach you the minor pentatonic it's taught as a box, and you get stuck thinking of all soloing as staying within the box.
Really you should think of soloing as picking notes of the chords, then connecting them using your boxes so to speak... Perhaps other people can elaborate better than I...

[fatb0t]

The minor scale is the 6th mode of the major scale....

So if you're paying the minor pentatonic the major pentatonic is three frets towards the nut. You're right, just remember you need to put emphasis on different notes than you would with the minor pentatonic.

[djlogan33]

[QUOTE=fatb0t;649934]Ok, if they say it's in A. It's generally in A Major. The difference between A Major and A Minor is actually pretty significant.
================================================== ===
Thanks.

In other words, as shown in the attachment, isn't true, for example, that the fingering of a C Minor pentatatonic is the same as the C-Major pentatonic but 3-frets down?

It's just hard for me to stop/pause at the different position of the root within the "box".

UPDATED THE ATTACHMENT

[fatb0t]

Yes, the fingering is the same just three frets down from the minor pentatonic to get to the Major. I just personally don't think of it that way anymore because you get boxed in. You need to do yourself a massive favor... first, you need to learn the major scale and all it's modes. It will take you a few months to memorize but you'll be glad you did. Then you need to memorize your major, minor, and 7th arpeggios all over the neck.

Here's where you can start: Major Scales 101 - Masterclass Guitar Forum

[djlogan33]

[QUOTE= [B]You need to do yourself a massive favor[/B]... first, you need to learn the major scale and all it's modes. It will take you a few months to memorize but you'll be glad you did. Then you need to memorize your major, minor, and 7th arpeggios all over the neck.

================================================== ======
Thanks, U R probably right.
I have the minor pentatonic scales memorized fairly well, in all keys.

I mostly "Play da Blues" and most of the tracks are played using minor-pentatonic scales.

It appears that most country tracks (and Allman Brothers) are more upbeat and are played using major-pentatonic scales.

Is that your understanding?

[sliding tom]

Originally Posted by djlogan33

I mostly "Play da Blues" and most of the tracks are played using minor-pentatonic scales.

Are you following my course? Mixing minor and major pentatonics to have more than just five notes available will be up sooner or later.