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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Randy Rhoads and scales

Hey guys,

Excuse my ignorance but I'm studying Crazy Train and still learning scales/modes.
Lots of pentatonic and aeolian on that solo but what about the 13h14h16 notes on the D string... what scale/mode is this?

Here 's a part of that last 'run':


G-------------------------------------------13h14h16----------|
D------------------11h12h14--13h14h16-----------------------|
A-------11h12h14---------------------------------------------|
E--------------------------------------------------------------|

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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

What's all the "h" stuff?
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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus View Post
What's all the "h" stuff?
hammer on/legato
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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

And you're playing the bassline?
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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus View Post
And you're playing the bassline.
??
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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

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Originally Posted by SloeGin View Post
??
4 strings on your tab.
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Unread 01-27-2013, 04:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus View Post
4 strings on your tab.
lol
Yes 'cause i didn't want to tab the whole thing out
it's just a small part of the solo ... but my question is related to six string guitar
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Unread 01-27-2013, 06:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloeGin View Post
Hey guys,

Excuse my ignorance but I'm studying Crazy Train and still learning scales/modes.
Lots of pentatonic and aeolian on that solo but what about the 13h14h16 notes on the D string... what scale/mode is this?

Here 's a part of that last 'run':


G-------------------------------------------13h14h16----------|
D------------------11h12h14--13h14h16-----------------------|
A-------11h12h14---------------------------------------------|
E--------------------------------------------------------------|


Thanks!
Code:
G-------------------------------------------13h14h16----------|
D------------------11h12h14--13h14h16-------------------------|
A-------11h12h14----------------------------------------------|
E-------------------------------------------------------------|
        G# A  B    C#  D  E   D# E F#       G# A  B
Without listening to check, that's the A major scale, and the D# is a "chromatic approach".
Very common to approach a chord tone (5th of A in this case) from a half-step below, particularly in blues and jazz.
Although this is not a blues run, it's also worth pointing out it's the #4/b5 of A blues scale.

If, in fact, the whole thing is in F# minor (which I believe it is?), then it's an aeolian run, with a passing dorian major 6. (See, modal terms can sometimes come in handy... although it can still be seen as natural minor with a chromatic approach to the 7th )
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Unread 01-27-2013, 08:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

Thanks alot JonR!
Yes the whole song is in F#minor.
But what Dorian mode do you mean then?
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Unread 01-27-2013, 09:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloeGin View Post
Thanks alot JonR!
Yes the whole song is in F#minor.
But what Dorian mode do you mean then?
F# dorian. Modes should always be referred to key centre.

Having checked my transcription of the song (intro, verse, chorus, bridge, not solos), it's not entirely in F# minor; the verse is in A major.
The rest is in F# minor, mostly drawn from the natural minor scale (aeolian, if you prefer modal terms), but there is a lot of chromaticism, and modal terms don't really help there.
Eg, that run of 16ths after the first chorus phrase ("running off the rails on a crazy train"), is over an F#m chord (or F# power chord), but the notes are more like an A blues scale run, with passing C and G naturals, and resolving to a low A. No modal term will cover that - not without a lot of chromatic exceptions. (After he sings the title phrase the 2nd time, it's a more orthodox chord riff in F# minor.)

In the bridge ("I know that things are going wrong..."), there's more significant chromaticism, in the half-step drop from F#5, the passing D#5 (D5>D#5>E5), and of course the long run of triplets ("you gotta listen...").
Again, modes don't really help. The idea is "F# minor, with half-step shifts here and there."

In the clip you're talking about - if that D# is anything more than a momentary chromaticism (which is what it looks like) - it may be more helpful to think of the classic minor key theory which states that the 6th and 7th steps in a minor key are variable. IOW, in the key of F# minor, you can have either D or D# as 6th, and either E or E# as 7th - depending on what effect you want in your tune. IOW, it's about a balance between natural, harmonic and melodic minor, rather than aeolian and dorian.
In a sense, you can regard dorian mode as the extra 4th permutation of 6th and 7th, one that doesn't normally belong in a classic minor key, but is of course quite common in jazz, folk, and rock:
Code:
NATURAL MINOR (AEOLIAN): 1  .  2 b3  .  4  .  5 b6  . b7  .  1
        HARMONIC MINOR : 1  .  2 b3  .  4  .  5 b6  .  .  7  1
         MELODIC MINOR : 1  .  2 b3  .  4  .  5  .  6  .  7  1
                DORIAN : 1  .  2 b3  .  4  .  5  .  6 b7  .  1
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Unread 01-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Randy Rhoads and scales

Thanks for the analysis
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